Supersetting Or "alternating Exercises"

I´ve always been inclined to doing to exercises at once, doing another exercise instead of just standing around waiting between sets. For example alternating between a pushing exercise & a core exercise. Alternating a leg movement with an upper body and so on.... This works well for me most of the time but sometimes it´s better to rest completely between sets if improving performance on the main exercise is the main focus.

I´m just wondering how to decide when exercises can be alternated and when not to? The gymnastic world is still new to me so I find this a major stumbling stone when constructing a routine.

As I see this "exercise alteration" frequently in the WODs, clearly it has implications in gymnastics, but I´m still unsure about some exercises.

For example FSPs where it´s recommended to keep rest short in between sets. 45-90sec max if I remember it right. So would a simple FSP like an L-Sit be unappropriate to superset with for example dips?

Or is it better to rest fully in between sets of FSPs to stay within the prescribed rest interval?

Basically, to clarify I´m wondering when it´s ok to alternate exercises and when not. =)

Thanks in advance

You can alternate them doing one pushing vs one pulling exersice.

But rememher that this will be more metabolic and probably you wont be completely recovered when comes about strenth training.

Personqlly when working for strength i prefer to do one exrrsice and then in the rest do light mobility for another muscular group.

Ie: working hespu and in the rest i do smr for my hips or duck walks...

If your goal is hypertrophy you will want short rests (30s), however if your goal is strength you will want to rest longer (60-120s) in between sets. If you do each exercise back to back just to "feel the burn" your form will likely deteriorate. Also you will put most of the strain on your LTMUs (endurance muscle units) because your HTMUs (power muscle units) will not have time to recover at all, and therfore you will develop endurance, rather than maximal strength.

With that being said, supersetting is fine so long as you do not overdo it. I like 3DGuy's advice of one pulling one pushing, that is the method I prefer. There are others that work, however it all depends on your goals. If mastering the FSPs and FBEs is your goal, then I would not superset anything, unless it is skill work.

Thanks alot for your answers! Makes sense. Even though there are alot of new stuff to consider in the world of gymnastics, alot of the basic "training principles" still seems to be applicable, glad to hear some things are still familiar. I´m probably gonna go mostly straight sets and keep things basic for now to "find the groove" before I start experimenting too much.

Two questions regarding your answers though. aiken54: Your last sentence, just want to make sure I interpretated it right..... "If mastering the FSPs and FBEs is your goal, then I would not superset anything, unless it is skill work." 

Did you mean it might work to superset FBE & FSP with light skill work even if they are top priority?

3DGuy: I´m working on hip mobility myself, so what are smr´s?

Thanks again!

self myofascial release = massage with a foam roller, a baseball, softball, and lacrosse =)

Thanks again! I gotta try that one.

Might as well sneak in another programming question while I´m at it. If I´m constructing a routine and using the push, pull, legs & core theme. Where do I put the CPP movements like muscle ups?

They won´t really go smoothly in any of the days being combined push pull movements.

One thought I had was to put them on pull days as that´s the "most taxing" part of the movement. A pull-up isn´t really taxing but still a bit more than doing a few dips.

Or am I missing some aspect of the movement that might have a bigger impact than I think? 

if you want you can use a 4/day schedule in which you work multiplane.

if not, there won't be any problem if you add that work in a normal day. just remeber that the priority work would be first in the workout.

Thanks again!

Just a note: All my advice is from personal experience and it may not apply to you. If someone reads this and finds something that is wrong, please let me know, I do not look to misinform.

With that being said doing skill work when you are tired is not something I would recommend. After a set of ring dips or L sit to shoulder stand on rings, there is now way I could work handstands and get a lot out of them. The point of skill work is to maintain and reinforce correct movement patterns, and when you are fatigued as you are after a conditioning set, you will not preform your skills as well as if you weren't tired. However, this is just advice. If you have great muscular endurance, or if your goal is endurance, then go ahead and superset these moves. I would lean more on the side of what 3D Guy said and do mobility work in between sets.

aiken54 said:

Just a note: All my advice is from personal experience and it may not apply to you. If someone reads this and finds something that is wrong, please let me know, I do not look to misinform.

 

With that being said doing skill work when you are tired is not something I would recommend. After a set of ring dips or L sit to shoulder stand on rings, there is now way I could work handstands and get a lot out of them. The point of skill work is to maintain and reinforce correct movement patterns, and when you are fatigued as you are after a conditioning set, you will not preform your skills as well as if you weren't tired. However, this is just advice. If you have great muscular endurance, or if your goal is endurance, then go ahead and superset these moves. I would lean more on the side of what 3D Guy said and do mobility work in between sets.

Good point there. If there´s one thing I learned from past training experiences it´s that lack of focus when trying to learn new skills might actually end up doing more damage than no practice at all.

You know, Coach writes about this in BtGB.

I read the book. Twice to make sure I wasn´t asking questions that was already answered in the book. Don´t get me wrong, I learned alot from the book, but still I was left with just as many questions, this being one of them. If you found the book answered my questions above I apologize. I´d appreciate if you would take the time to refer to the pages in question so I can read it a third time though.

Thanks again.

EDIT: Just have to add, some things have more sides to them than true or false, yes or no and only benefits from a second, third and forth opinion, this being one of those topics.... But that´s a personal opinion

aiken54 said:

"...With that being said doing skill work when you are tired is not something I would recommend. After a set of ring dips or L sit to shoulder stand on rings, there is now way I could work handstands and get a lot out of them. The point of skill work is to maintain and reinforce correct movement patterns, and when you are fatigued as you are after a conditioning set, you will not preform your skills as well as if you weren't tired..."

I'm not going to input my own ideas about this, but Ido Portal once posted a Russian gymnastics conditioning routine, and the following note was stated:

- "3.The Podkatchka is performed sometimes as a warm up to check if the gymnasts could perform technical skills under fatigued conditions. (Yes, against the western common sense...) "

I also read that Ido has in the past done the same with his capoeira students. I remember reading one conditioning workout he wrote up some years ago that went along with that day's capoeira skill work. Just reading the routine made me feel like puking.

Something to think about.

Remember, you ALWAYS have to place different rank in priority for different things

Skill work taxes and deppends a lot more inthe CNS, so it must be placed at the beginning of every workout.

Working for a goal will lead us to place the most useful exercises at  the beginning (obviously after skill work) of the workout, in order to work as fresh as possible and have a better usage of the cns.

What a lot of Coaches do is the opposite, why? i really don't know, but i want to supposse that is because when you are a former gymnast, or another kind of fitness enthusiast, and go very long with the workouts (6-8 hours a day), then you have to be able to work under almost any condition...

But at least, i prefer to work skills and strength been fresh 

=)

EvolutionarySideSteps said:

I read the book. Twice to make sure I wasn´t asking questions that was already answered in the book. Don´t get me wrong, I learned alot from the book, but still I was left with just as many questions, this being one of them. If you found the book answered my questions above I apologize. I´d appreciate if you would take the time to refer to the pages in question so I can read it a third time though.

Thanks again.

 

EDIT: Just have to add, some things have more sides to them than true or false, yes or no and only benefits from a second, third and forth opinion, this being one of those topics.... But that´s a personal opinion

Hi, the page numbers are from p.175 to the top p.176. Sorry it doesn't say too much, but it might help.

Didn't mean to sound rude, by the way.

3DGuy: You say "Skill work taxes the CNS a lot". I was just curious why? If I understand things right, skill work is lighter work as most seem to feel it´s alright to do light skill work on rest days? I understand that skill work is dependent on a fresh CNS but how is it taxing?

Patrick: No worries! I´m the one that owes you an apology. I was just trying to get the "Sorry it doesnt say too much..." sentence out of you. That´s why I posted the question...... Sorry about that  

haha, sorry, i didn't write it correctly...

exactly, skill work relies* a lot in the cns integrity, due to that is easier and better to learn a new skill being fresh

sorry and thanks by the correction man

Shakyamuni said:

I'm not going to input my own ideas about this, but Ido Portal once posted a Russian gymnastics conditioning routine, and the following note was stated:

- "3.The Podkatchka is performed sometimes as a warm up to check if the gymnasts could perform technical skills under fatigued conditions. (Yes, against the western common sense...) "

 

I could see why he would do this. To try and somewhat close the gap between "fresh" and fatigued performance. I plan on having more endurance focused workouts in a couple months at the end of this cycle. They are awful, but a great way to tie up all the gains made in a cycle before you move onto the next.