Paolo Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I've heard many people tell me that one of the many reasons I can't hold a handstand is not being able to fully open my shoulders. Do you think this piece of equipment is effective or should I just follow Mat Tranes open shoulder video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 This is a pretty interesting encyclopedia of stretches, but I am not a fan of most simply because MY shoulders don't respond well to them. This is because many of them promote anterior translation of the humeral head, though if you're careful you can avoid that. The big thing to notice on these is that it is very important to NOT arch the back when you do these stretches. If you DO arch the back, particularly the upper back, you will not stretch what you need to stretch. You'll just torque the shoulders. You want to think about letting the shoulder blades go up and back somewhat, but mostly up, while being in a hollow position. Of everything I see here. the best place to start is the stretch at the 2 minute mark. I would perform this with each hand on the opposite elbow, to keep the upper arms parallel, and focus on letting the chest drift forward towards the floor and away from the hands. Keep a hollow and you should feel stretching, but I don't like this as much as the stall bar lat stretch. The video for that is not public anymore, and I approach the stretch differently than the original video and am getting excellent results. shows poor form on an excellent exercise. Notice that the girl's back is arched. You don't want that. You will also want to be trying to look at the center of the block during this stage of training. You want to pretend that you're on a vertical wall and are trying to touch your forehead to the wall and your chin to your chest. That is for STRETCHING and learning the initial shoulder opening! Once you do have open shoulders, you're going to want to move on and learn the same alignment with a neutral head, and then looking at your hands. The scapular mobility is what you need, and honestly it's going to be hard to get that without the lat stretch I mentioned, at least it will be if you are like me and naturally inflexible + strong. You will also want to do handstand-form weighted exercises with your arms, but I'll try and make a video to show that. Words are inadequate. I believe you'll see it on AlexX's recently posted shoulder video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 This is a pretty interesting encyclopedia of stretches, but I am not a fan of most simply because MY shoulders don't respond well to them. This is because many of them promote anterior translation of the humeral head, though if you're careful you can avoid that. The big thing to notice on these is that it is very important to NOT arch the back when you do these stretches. If you DO arch the back, particularly the upper back, you will not stretch what you need to stretch. You'll just torque the shoulders. You want to think about letting the shoulder blades go up and back somewhat, but mostly up, while being in a hollow position. Of everything I see here. the best place to start is the stretch at the 2 minute mark. I would perform this with each hand on the opposite elbow, to keep the upper arms parallel, and focus on letting the chest drift forward towards the floor and away from the hands. Keep a hollow and you should feel stretching, but I don't like this as much as the stall bar lat stretch. The video for that is not public anymore, and I approach the stretch differently than the original video and am getting excellent results. shows poor form on an excellent exercise. Notice that the girl's back is arched. You don't want that. You will also want to be trying to look at the center of the block during this stage of training. You want to pretend that you're on a vertical wall and are trying to touch your forehead to the wall and your chin to your chest. That is for STRETCHING and learning the initial shoulder opening! Once you do have open shoulders, you're going to want to move on and learn the same alignment with a neutral head, and then looking at your hands. The scapular mobility is what you need, and honestly it's going to be hard to get that without the lat stretch I mentioned, at least it will be if you are like me and naturally inflexible + strong. You will also want to do handstand-form weighted exercises with your arms, but I'll try and make a video to show that. Words are inadequate. I believe you'll see it on AlexX's recently posted shoulder video.Thank you Joshua. I look forward to that video and I will take what you said and add it to my stretching routine. I'll take a look at AlexX's shoulder video if I can find it. You didn't answer my question though. Should I buy the open shoulder trainer or not? It's $25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yuri marmerstein Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I'm willing to bet open shoulders are not the reason you are unable to hold a handstand. If you understood how to balance, your body would compensate for any shoulder position. With that said, getting the shoulders open is still important. It's not always a mobility issue as it is getting comfortable using that range of motion of the shoulder. I see a lot of people who can get open shoulders but subconsciously feel safer in a closed shoulder so that's where they stay. The open shoulder trainer is not useful for this purpose. You have to do the necessary prep and feel the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 It might not be a bad device, but like Yuri said, you probably won't get much from this in the initial learning phase. It appears to be a device that lets gymnasts learn to KEEP their open shoulders during various skills once they have developed them. Yuri speaks from quite a lot of experience, I would pay close attention to what he says. Your first goal is to achieve open shoulders with stretching, your second goal is to achieve open shoulders on command with only active flexibility, and your final goal is to be able to maintain open shoulders in the handstand. It takes a while, but we'll get there eventually! I will explain what I mean by all that in the video, when that comes out. I'll make it next week, I'm going hiking for a few days starting tomorrow. I would not use the trainer at my current stage of training, simply because I would be putting a lot of torque on my neck. I'm nowhere near open with active flexibility for this device to be of any use for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Is 5:49 in the following video the same stretch as the one at the 2 minute mark in Mats video but made more effective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Smith Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 B1214N, It is, however I believe he is probably performing it as an abdominable/bodyline drill. Not as a stretch. When performing this as a stretch, hold a bar behind the head (as if you were going to perform skull crushers) and ave the elbows as the supporting point on the table/chair/whatever you use, as you get stronger/more flexibile in the position you can add weight to the bar.Have the feet on the ground not the knees (you can start with knees but build up to feet), open hips (don't pike) and hollow chest (nice and rounded upper back).By having the upper back rounded, the shoulders are stretched and not the chest. The placing of a bar behind the head rotates the shoulders so the correct part is being stretched and also helps stretch the triceps. People need to realise there are different aspects to bodyline. There is the basic flexibilty of the shoulders to produce an open position, there is the basic body shape (think hollow holds) there is producing a bodyline in an open shoulder position, producing a bodyline in an inverted position, moving into and out of an inverted position using the shoulders/traps. Then there are exercises which are blends of these. Ed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 B1214N: No, it is less effective. He didn't even get to open shoulders. Now, it is quite obvious that this wasn't intended to be a stretch, but since you asked about the effectiveness of the position for stretching I am responding specifically to that. There's a basic issue I have with the idea of stretching the glenohumeral joint: There's only two thing you're really going to stretch with straight arms and a hand support: Ligaments and the labrum. The elbow supported stretches are better because there's a LOT less torque at the shoulder but the same or greater force on scapulo-thoracic musculature. Externally rotating puts the largest part of the proximal humerus directly in line with your subacromial bursa. I get insane impingement in the right shoulder with this, but it's pain-free because I'm actually fixing the shoulder now with the other stretch. Perhaps, in 6 months when the swelling is completely gone, I will be able to do this one. RIght now, it would be a quick ticket to injury, and honestly you're better off doing this one partially internally rotated. From the feel of it, I'd say around 65 degrees of internal rotation as measured from anatomical position with 90 degrees elbow flexion. Drillsandskills.com calls it the "king stretch" and it's pretty good, but I feel he shows it a bit too internally rotated, as this can cause impingement as well. It is well worth looking at a 3D model of the shoulder and seeing how rotation affects where the tubercles go as you flex the shoulder. Pay attention to the subacromial space, that's what really matters. The hanging stretches are the best, in my opinion, for people who are too tight because you can stretch BOTH the scapulothoracic muscles AND the chest, which is what I notice happening for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Mainente Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 what worked for me a lot were: -shoulders dislocation (as i improve them, my bridge improve and also my handstand, now i've reached less then shoulders distance in about 9-10 months)-bridge with chest above the hands now i'm working on a particular exericise that matteo morandi showed to me some weeks ago. this exercise is very popular in the russian school, in fact was imported by his coach Sergei Uzalov (wasn't there for personal reasons), who was the coach of Morandi for 12 years and now is at the tecnical federal center of Milan. if i'll have time i'll make a video for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Thanks for the info ed x and Josh! Quick question: what was Hannibal trying to do with that position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Branson Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Listen to Yuri. He has a lot of experience not only doing them but also teaching them. You can have completely open shoulders but once you load them and try to balance things change. Flexibility with no load does not equal flexibility with a load. Now add in trying to balance and it changes again.Do the work and spend the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yuri marmerstein Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Plus that the open shoulder trainer is a one size fits all, which means you will have wiggle room. It will not get your shoulders to the angle you want them to be. The open shoulder trainer is used more for kids who drop their arms when they tumble 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Branson Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Also do not fall into the trap of not training HS because your shoulders are not fully open yet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 Indeed. Stomach to wall, with the hands as far from the wall as necessary to keep a good body shape, is the key. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now