Tyler Gibson Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I have seen a wide variety of techniques employed for the human flag/side lever. For example, Dominic Lacasse's flag has incredible vertical symmetry. Both his arms are straight, and there is very little twist in his torso. If you were to rotate a picture of his flag 90 degrees, it would appear as though he was standing on the ground, extending both arms overhead in a Y shape. The french hand balancer Willy Weldens also has a very symmetrical flag that he can hold for over 40 seconds. Al Kavadlo, who also has an impressive flag, sometimes performs a flag in which his body is slightly above horizontal, and sometimes has more rotation in his torso. Among all the people I have seen execute this skill, some have more torso rotation, some bend the top arm or have the arms at different angles to the body, and some have the body slightly above parallel to the ground. My question is what you would consider a more technically correct flag, which style is more difficult, and what differences are there in muscle activation between the styles? Personally I prefer the more aesthetic and symmetrical style of Dominic or Willy, but as I cannot perform the flag, I am curious about the differences in difficulty and muscle activation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 A technically correct and most difficult human flag is with the body completely horizontal and straight arms. Body rotation may change muscle activation slightly, but I don't think it is any more difficult or easier than one with no rotation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karri Kytömaa Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I think the rotation swifts the load more from obliques to abs and since abs tend to be stronger it's easier for most that way. Load is obviously the same. I'd aim for one without any rotation as it's best and one of the few movements that really hit the side of the body well. Atm my shoulders are nowhere near but I train clutch flag from time to time and like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 They can also be rotated toward the ground which would obviously bring some lower back into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Gibson Posted December 12, 2012 Author Share Posted December 12, 2012 I agree, it seems logical that less rotation would place more of the load on the obliques rather than the rectus abdominis. I'm not sure if I've seen one performed with more rotation towards the ground. I was curious if anyone here had experimented with training different styles of flag and what their findings might have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 There is also another variation of the human flag where your arm placement is under your head rather than overhead. For visual reference the regular flag is like a sideways Y with your arms while the other variation is like a horizontalarrow -->-. Another exercise that looks similar to a human flag/side lever is the one arm front lever with body turned sideways. It is purely a pulling exercise unlike the human flag which is primarily a pressing exercise with some pulling in it. Also, keep in mind that the side lever like the other gymnastics levers stress the upper body the most rather than the core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Blu Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 http://youtu.be/j4RnkrRHLnMAt 2:30 here is an example of dynamic flag work. He shows 3 ways of "invisible ladder or sliding on invisible surface". Pretty impressive. And he uses variations with different torso position, so why just limit yourself to some strict form. After all, flag is not considered a gymnastic movement, so there are no rules, what's the proper way of doing it. And with straight body you will benifit from either position of torso. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Kristiansen Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The most absurd flag move I have ever seen was a chinese pole guy who did a kind of muscle up movement in flag. So he would do a flag pushup, but continue it through to the other side of the pole so he was in a maltese type of shape sideways. He was ridiculously strong though in a lot of other types of strength work as well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The most absurd flag move I have ever seen was a chinese pole guy who did a kind of muscle up movement in flag. So he would do a flag pushup, but continue it through to the other side of the pole so he was in a maltese type of shape sideways. He was ridiculously strong though in a lot of other types of strength work as wellThat muscle-up flag movement sounds crazy! The sideways maltese type of flag was the one I was trying to describe earlier with the horizontal arrow. Have you ever tried that variation before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 ... Also, keep in mind that the side lever like the other gymnastics levers stress the upper body the most rather than the core. A very, very important point. The shoulder girdle is where this exercise is the most stressful, even though it is very difficult for the core as well. It is important to properly prepare your shoulders so that you don't get hurt when trying flags/side levers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I roll my eyes when I hear people say that the planche, front lever, or human flag is all core and skill, but no upper body strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Gibson Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 The most absurd flag move I have ever seen was a chinese pole guy who did a kind of muscle up movement in flag. So he would do a flag pushup, but continue it through to the other side of the pole so he was in a maltese type of shape sideways. He was ridiculously strong though in a lot of other types of strength work as wellThat sounds insane! Did you see this in person or on a video? I'm sure if there were a vid of it, someone would have already posted it but I'd love to see footage of that. I roll my eyes when I hear people say that the planche, front lever, or human flag is all core and skill, but no upper body strength.Agreed. Anyone who has ever attempted a flag is aware of the stress on the shoulder girdle. People that argue otherwise are probably rationalizing why they haven't achieved the skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Kristiansen Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 The guy who did the "muscle up" in flag is a friend of me. He is pretty insane. His work partner whom I also know is also an absolute beast at flags and can do flag starting with both shoulders dislocked and a reverse grip and by insane strenght and shoulder flex twist into flag from there. He doesnt do it in this clip, but he does sort of a sideways back lever at some point. I wouldnt be surprised if he also can do the muscle up thing. A lot of other weird and interesting moves there too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karri Kytömaa Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Has anyone ever seen flag executed with arms parallel to ground? Everyone I've seen has wider hand placement but I don't see why it couldn't be done like handstand sideways. Of course the strength requirements skyrocket like crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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