Back Activation

I'm currently working on doing a proper pull-up. I can't do a single pull-up yet so I decided to go with the assisted pull-up machine. The problem is, I can't seem to feel my back being worked out during the workout. Any suggestions on how can i activate or "feel" my back?

Maybe You aren't doing it with proper form, with scapula retracted.

Retract your scapula and slightly arch your back, and you will feel the back working; chest must be ever open.

Take 3-4 seconds to go up, and 3-4 seconds to go down. You'll feel it.

This also gives you the time to adjust form on the fly by stopping when you feel form break, getting the form back right there in that part of the ROM that you lost it, and then continue on. This will help you teach yourself to do proper pull ups.

I'd do this until your sets are taking you 60-80 seconds to complete, especially as a beginner. When that happens, remove one level of resistance and do the same thing. Make sure you're doing 3 sets to failure with 1-2 minutes of rest. When you can get even the 3rd set to last 50-60 seconds you should move on by removing another level of assistance.

The assisted machine can be a complete waste of time if you're moving fast.

Finally, make sure you eat food immediately after your workout. Have protein in there but make sure there are plenty of calories.

two 400 kcal meals 45-60 minutes apart should take care of most of your caloric needs from the workout. Make sure you drink 16-32 ounces or .5 to 1 liter of water with each meal.

Learn how to do a hanging shrug. Own that motion, every pull up should be starting from that act of pulling the shoulders down and into a stable position. If this is off then you will never have proper activation.

With people like you who cannot even do one full hang pullup I always just start them off with a simple hollow hang.

First, it gets you comfortable gripping the bar. A lot of people have issues just gripping a bar.

Try using a straight bar with, at most, tape on it. Avoid those angled grippy types you see on some gym equipment. Get comfortable in a hang, work on shoulder position a bit later on. Then work into a slight hollow hold. Open the shoulders a bit, straighten the back, pull in the lower belt of your ribs (don't suck in your stomach), and tilt your pelvis so your straight legs and pointed toes extend out a bit, maybe a foot, no more.

This should allow you to begin to "feel" your back a bit more. As you get comfortable you can play a bit with adjusting the hold from one hand to the other and using your back muscles to compensate.

jl5555 said:

Avoid those angled grippy types you see on some gym equipment.

Why can't they just put a normal bar there?

Hollow holds are nice. I still prefer learning the shrug first to increase shoulder stability and learn activation of those stabilizers. Focus on one thing a a time before bringing in many elements. My own opinion. Many ways to do it, do what is best for you.

Also I can say from experience that that machine is not an effective way to get better at pullups.

It also sounds like you may not be feeling your back because the machine is pushing your hips up towards the bar.

You need to hang at a stretch for your lats to engage - they are too relaxed so your shoulders pick up the slack.

I'm just a layman so don't beat me up if I'm inexact guys

Anyway, doing the above, and working on negatives after that probably, is going to be more effective than the machine.

Just figured I'd tack on what's worked for me.

I've found pullup negatives to be the most effective way of building pullup strength. Jump to a hanging position, hold for a few seconds and lower yourself down. The longer you take to lower yourself down, the more effective it will be. Aim for a 5 second hold up top and 10 seconds to drop down to a hanging position.

As for activating your back, just try to pull your elbows to and behind your body. Lats engaged.

I've found that lower Trapezius and Rhomboid training is needed before getting proper activation in the upper back to do a proper shrug from a deadhang. Powell raises, trap-3 raises, band pull aparts, etc. are good for getting activation and strength developing in scapular retraction and depression. If you can't do a trap-3 raise with 5 lbs(most people can't), you won't be able to do a shrug from deadhang, which is essential to being able to do the 'Perfect Pull Up'.

Nic Branson said:

Hollow holds are nice. I still prefer learning the shrug first to increase shoulder stability and learn activation of those stabilizers. Focus on one thing a a time before bringing in many elements....

Yeah, for sure.

At Yuri's handstand seminar he had us do the hollow hold first with some instruction to work on the proper shoulder positioning from there. I tend to agree with him there. There are many places you can position the shoulders in a hang but it takes some time to find the right spot, not too shrugged and not too full hang. You do want some tension there.

But specific to back activation I'm not sure that doing shrugs will lead you to feeling your back.

raja said:

I've found that lower Trapezius and Rhomboid training is needed before getting proper activation in the upper back to do a proper shrug from a deadhang. Powell raises, trap-3 raises, band pull aparts, etc. are good for getting activation and strength developing in scapular retraction and depression. If you can't do a trap-3 raise with 5 lbs(most people can't), you won't be able to do a shrug from deadhang, which is essential to being able to do the 'Perfect Pull Up'.

I have also found that if you start at the midpoint of a cuban press, with elbows at 90 degrees and forearms parallel to the ground, and roll the scaps while keeping the glenohumeral joint (upper arm and scapula joint) stable and then roll them back into a retracted position that this very specifically trains the scapular movement and muscle activation we are all looking for.

You can of course do this with straight arms as well but it will work a bit differently as external rotators will be less engaged but deltoids and suprasinatus will have to do more work and the weight used will be lower because of the longer lever.

Both are good exercises if you can do them correctly, but the bent arms is a really easy way to get started. I don't know why this isn't taught in classes, it's the exact opposite of what my athletic training teacher taught but it works better. Movement > isometric when you're trying to build muscle strength and mass.

That makes both important, as the standard "set the scaps first" approach is going to lead to movement in the deltoids and supraspinatus but primarily isometric tension in the traps, while making the scap setting the entire exercise (as detailed above) reverses this usage pattern.

Incidentally this will probably also fix the problem that many people have with upright rows, namely that they hurt the shoulders in some people. I'm one of them, and it is helping me.

Isometrics will build strength at that point what the big difference comes out to be is movement=activation that can be stored and remembered by the body. Our movements are stored as patterns. Single point isometric does not really become easily remembered by itself.

1. Work on Scapula pullups. Hang with straight arms and with straight arms pull your scapulas together and down.

2 . If you have your pullupbar close to a wall, try to put your feet on the wall and pull yourself up. This way you will definetly feel back activation.

Nic Branson said:

Isometrics will build strength at that point what the big difference comes out to be is movement=activation that can be stored and remembered by the body. Our movements are stored as patterns. Single point isometric does not really become easily remembered by itself.

This is definitely true in my case hahaha! A very good point.