The quest for hypertrophy

Hello to everyone on GB, this is my first post so i thought id start by explaining what has brought me to the forum.

Ive been going to the gym and training with free weights for maybe almost 4 years. I initially started training to add strength and mass, being 6,2 and fairly thin with a starting BW of around 165lbs. Well i have made some decent gains overall, my BW is now around the 200lb mark and my strength has improved somewhat in the usual compound lifts. However i have now come to accept i have hit a plateau with my training. Im not going to explain all the different approaches to free weight training ive tried over the last 2 years, but trust me ive tried loads of stuff.

Anyway from what ive learnt so far it seem that IMO the idea of gaining strength and mass for a natural trainer is almost one and the same. The more you can lift and the more eat, basically the bigger and stronger you get. Recently it has become apparent to me that many of the vids i have watched on BW training and gymnastics, the guys in the vids seem to have more impressive physiques than most people ( myself included ) that go to the gym and do the whole compound lift routines. In fact the guys in my gym i see that have similar builds to gymnasts are usually using PED's. It also seems that there are more people on BBing forums these days that don't have any problems with using PED's. I thought about the idea for a while, but its not something i want to do. And because of this i have now decided maybe it is time to try a different approach to my training and that is what made me think about giving BW and gymnast stuff some serious attention.

Please don't think im one of these vain guys that just wants to look huge. I enjoy strength training as a whole and i also play Basketball, so half the reason i train is to increase my overall athletic ability as well as staying fit and healthy. Its just it becomes very frustrating when you are consistent with something, and no matter what progress seems to barely happen.

I don't currently have any plans on starting gymnastics as a sport in itself. But what kind of BW exercises would you guys recommend for someone purely wanting to increase overall bodystrength?

Sorry for the long post, and cheers for any feedback.

Keep in mind that the gymnasts you're looking at probably train 4 or 5 hours a day or more, and have done so from an early age.

If you've already bulked and are strong from lifting you're going to have to find out which exercises and at what level of difficulty are appropriate for you. But for a starting point, look at the static positions (FSPs). They are isometic holds that are neccessary to develop a foundation for more dynamic movements. They have a fairly strong muscle growth stimulus as well...

Strogg said:

Hello to everyone on GB, this is my first post so i thought id start by explaining what has brought me to the forum.

Ive been going to the gym and training with free weights for maybe almost 4 years. I initially started training to add strength and mass, being 6,2 and fairly thin with a starting BW of around 165lbs. Well i have made some decent gains overall, my BW is now around the 200lb mark and my strength has improved somewhat in the usual compound lifts. However i have now come to accept i have hit a plateau with my training. Im not going to explain all the different approaches to free weight training ive tried over the last 2 years, but trust me ive tried loads of stuff.

Anyway from what ive learnt so far it seem that IMO the idea of gaining strength and mass for a natural trainer is almost one and the same. The more you can lift and the more eat, basically the bigger and stronger you get. Recently it has become apparent to me that many of the vids i have watched on BW training and gymnastics, the guys in the vids seem to have more impressive physiques than most people ( myself included ) that go to the gym and do the whole compound lift routines. In fact the guys in my gym i see that have similar builds to gymnasts are usually using PED's. It also seems that there are more people on BBing forums these days that don't have any problems with using PED's. I thought about the idea for a while, but its not something i want to do. And because of this i have now decided maybe it is time to try a different approach to my training and that is what made me think about giving BW and gymnast stuff some serious attention.

Please don't think im one of these vain guys that just wants to look huge. I enjoy strength training as a whole and i also play Basketball, so half the reason i train is to increase my overall athletic ability as well as staying fit and healthy. Its just it becomes very frustrating when you are consistent with something, and no matter what progress seems to barely happen.

I don't currently have any plans on starting gymnastics as a sport in itself. But what kind of BW exercises would you guys recommend for someone purely wanting to increase overall bodystrength?

Sorry for the long post, and cheers for any feedback.

I hear your best bet is to start off with weighted dips, pullups, push ups and/or harder bodyweight versions of these and HSPU's and inverted/horizontal rows/pullups. And eventually in the end PL push ups, full FL pullups/rows, full ROM HSPU's. And way down the road Iron and Maltese crosses and pulling/pushing into and out of them.

Just to name a few things.

Cheers for the info guys.

I was thinking of getting one of those dip/pull up towers and starting from there. I can already do weighted dips and chins with reasonable weight, however i think having a tower would mean i can up the overall frequency of doing these.

I have already tried doing stuff like psuedo planche holds, and tbh it feels a bit out of reach at the moment. I also read that having your shoulders in the correct position is a must or the exercise is almost pointless. Maybe im just nowhere near strong enough for that movement yet?

There are the FSPs which are things like plank, hollow hold, back extension,support hold, dead hang etc which should be developed at least 60 seconds hold each before moving on to more complex static training. Entry level static work includes handstand and L-sit progressions. Front level and back lever are pretty common static starting objectives. Common dynamic objectives is muscle up, which combines the pull-up and dip movement, and a transition between the two, as well as handstand pushups.

Check out the sticky threads above here....but I would certainly include static work. It can be a bit dull at first but is challenging in its own way!

Ok thanks bud, ill take a look at those.

Is hypertrophy something that you guys are bothered about at all? Or are you just looking at becoming a better gymanst?

I can totally understand if its something that is of no interest.

Strogg said:

Ok thanks bud, ill take a look at those.

Is hypertrophy something that you guys are bothered about at all? Or are you just looking at becoming a better gymanst?

I can totally understand if its something that is of no interest.

Some of the guys around here are interested in hypertrophy. Others not so much. I'd say there are more people in the latter category, but who doesn't like to look good naked?

I'd be happy to look like the statue of David. (correction - Discus Thrower) Balanced. But focus is on doing and not looking.

I understand your concern; I used to be really worried about it too. Now my philosophy has changed. If you worry about becoming a better gymnast, hypertrophy will come. And if it doesn't happen as fast as you'd like, you can make adjustments later. Look at the pictures of the students from Coach's seminars. Does someone have the link?

Get started correctly and slowly. You'll be fine.

Haha cheers guys.

I had the same approach to my weightlifting, which was concentrate on getting stronger in the big lifts and size will come. But as i mentioned, i don't seem to be able to increase my strength at the moment.

Well ive been trying out some of the FSP's and what i can say is they are quite alot harder than they look. They have also made me realise how poor my posture is.

Im thinking of maybe making a routine consisting of elements from both gymnastics and free weights. What do you guys think?

Strogg said:

Im thinking of maybe making a routine consisting of elements from both gymnastics and free weights. What do you guys think?

I sure like doing weights for lower body. No bench press therapy or something like that for me, though.

Strogg said:

Haha cheers guys.

I had the same approach to my weightlifting, which was concentrate on getting stronger in the big lifts and size will come. But as i mentioned, i don't seem to be able to increase my strength at the moment.

Well ive been trying out some of the FSP's and what i can say is they are quite alot harder than they look. They have also made me realise how poor my posture is.

Im thinking of maybe making a routine consisting of elements from both gymnastics and free weights. What do you guys think?

Try slower tempos with absolutely no explosive element to the lift at all, no stretch reflex. You will have to use a lighter weight and you will need to keep constant tension with no rest between repetitions (no pause at the top) and you'll want to shoot for 30-90s sets.

It sounds to me like a number of your supporting muscles are inhibiting your prime movers. I have had this same issue, and have quite a few people at the GSU rec center doing this as well and they are all quite happy with the results. Old injuries start to fade away and strength goes up.

Doesn't really matter whether you are benching or doing push up variations, same thing applies.

Your body will naturally put the brakes on and inhibit your strength gains if the support muscles are weak. You are as strong as your support. Louie Simmons would comment on the upper back development of an individual as a marker of their bench potential. Being natural just means you'll notice imbalances sooner and they are harder to correct, aim for balance.

Combining the two can work wonderfully. Be patient and do NOT underestimate the toll that these movement have on your body.

Wise words.

In my opinion upper back and shoulder girdle development is most definitely a marker of all-around upper body physical ability.

Wow, this explains so many things guys.

For the last 3 years id say, ive had problames with my left shoulder. Ive recently had it looked at by my GP, who fortunately specialized in sports injuries. He explains i have winging scapulas (more pronounced with the left ) and the head forward posture. I think i have had poor posture like this ever since my teens, basically because i was tall and thin so held myself with the slouched position all the time.

He gave me some exercises to try, some of which are similar to the FSP's such as the arch hold. I found the exercises only seem to give short term relief though. Although they are less challenging than the FSP's.

I know many of the guys in my gym, and ive noticed that the guys using PED's tend to have much bigger rear delts and traps than the natural guys with similar physiques.

So you think perhaps becuase my support muscles are weak, this is halting my progress?

Can you build a pyramid without a base?

There is no perhaps, weak support muscles and poor patterning will severely limit you.

Well all i can say is thanks for bringing this to my attention.

I have used BB forums in the past and nobody seems to know much about this stuff. As soon as i stumbled across GB's and read some of the topics i could see that the members had a much more in depth grasp of how anatomy works.

Funny how gymnast actually no more about this. Maybe because BBing isn't really a sport as such where they have proper coaching and clubs.

So would you recommend the FSP's as a good place to start with this?

I think you should not gain more mass at your height if you play basketball. Your joints (knee, ankle, hips) will get unneccesarily heavy load, and you wont have much benefit with a bigger body at this height. Just do strength training for better athletic performance.

The thing is 200lb at 6'2 isn't that heavy. Plus my bodyfat is somewhere in the high teens id say maybe ~16-17%. Ideally i like to be about 205-210lbs with about 11-12% bf. I don't look particularly big, my arms are not not much bigger than 15inch and chest is about 43. I was speeking to a lad in the gym who does bodybuilding and he only weighed just over 11st, but because he was ripped and a few inches shorter he looked much bigger imo. I think height and BF levels can make a big difference with a persons weight, and overall build. If you want to be muscular when your tall with long limbs, weight needs to be a bit more.

I would say that my back and shoulders and upper arms have improved most noticeably through gymnastic training.

My chest hasn't noticeably changed. I don't do advanced gymnastics moves yet so it may yet...

Strogg said:

The thing is 200lb at 6'2 isn't that heavy. Plus my bodyfat is somewhere in the high teens id say maybe ~16-17%. Ideally i like to be about 205-210lbs with about 11-12% bf. I don't look particularly big, my arms are not not much bigger than 15inch and chest is about 43. I was speeking to a lad in the gym who does bodybuilding and he only weighed just over 11st, but because he was ripped and a few inches shorter he looked much bigger imo. I think height and BF levels can make a big difference with a persons weight, and overall build. If you want to be muscular when your tall with long limbs, weight needs to be a bit more.

Sorry, I use metric units. 200 lbs=90 kg not 100kg :oops: But anyway you shouldn't go over ~100kg (~220 lbs) if you want to walk up the stairs without warming up over 35. (like myself) Of course it's only true if you play basketball.

Cheers for all the feedback with this guys.

The FSP's sessions have already helped i feel and i have only done a few sessions. They seem like a great way of improving posture and as some have mentioned balance of physique.

And yeah i agree 100kg is certainly heavy for basketball, would want to be much heavier as id be getting gassed out to quick.