Vanity - What to do for gymnastic skill AND size

Okay, I have to admit that I'm vain. Not terribly but I like to look good and since I never got looks from people until recently I enjoy the attention I'm getting of late.

My goal is to be able to acquire as much gymnastic skill and benefit as I possibly can AND to get to that advanced gymnast look within as short a time as possible. I know that hypertrophy is undesirable in gymnastics but as I said before I'm not planning on becoming a gymnast. I just want it to be my main source of exercise.

So, given my goal, what kind of exercises should I be doing for gymnastics skill and strength as a complete beginner AND what kinds of exercises for size? I know that others have asked this question before but I have not seen an exact enough answer.

BTW - I was pleasantly surprised that I can actually do a handstand against the wall and that I can quickly advance on the frog stance. I thought my arms would surely buckle at the handstand...

Please help answer this question.

Thank you.

Why would you say hypertrophy is undesirable in gymnastics? Have you seen those guys in the olympics? My advise would be to order coaches new book/DVDs and rings if you dont have them.

Well, I think what he means is the type of hypertrophy that most think of. Bodybuilding style training with a large amount of muscle mass, instead of functional, more strength based muscle

Peace and Love,

Mike

Btw, I have retitled the subject of the thread calling it, Vanity and doing a spellcheck on vein > vain. Titling it just vain would be poor english, imo.

While gymnastics does require some hypertrophy ( there is an article on the USAG website that goes over this ), too much becomes inefficient as it can hamper flexibility ( reaching behind for pommels if your arms get too big ) or losing a preferred strength to mass ratio.

Most bodybuilding tends to become a freak show eventually anyways in one way or another.

I would suggest reading the following interview with Coach:

http://gymnasticbodies.com/articles2.html

The excerpt below highlights a key idea; that is, bodybuilding has changed significantly in the past half decade in practice and philosophy. Physique and performance at one point were directly linked in bodybuilding, however, over the years the media image of pure size has ultimately won out and many things which the pursuit once knew were forgotten.

Notice too that Coach's first book is titled Building the Olympic Body. Body building, building the body. Pretty clever word play. I think there's also a semantic difference, but my point is that there isn't one "ideal" and that's true even within vanity muscle magazines.

As for your goal of changing body composition in the least amount of time I have a single suggestion: work hard, work consistently, work smart, learn. Shane McDermont, who trained a number of elite athletes in Calgary, said one thing to me that stuck in my mind. It's the concept of GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out). Coach has an amazing system. Make sure what you put in is good.

Sommer: Many weightlifters of the 1940’s and 50’s (the old Muscle Beach days) believed that a combination of weight lifting and gymnastics training was required to build the ultimate physique. One of the most famous of those trainees is Jack LaLanne, a name that all of your readers should be familiar with.

Jack LaLanne in a One Arm Handstand

Many know of his reputation for incredible strength endurance records; for example, he performed 1000 pull-ups and 1000 push-ups in one hour and twenty three minutes! What they may not know is that Mr. LaLanne was also an accomplished gymnast and didn’t begin setting his amazing records until he was 43 years old and continued until well into his 70’s. In fact, not too long ago, at the age of 80+, I saw a picture of him performing one of the gymnastics specialty exercises that I use with my competitive athletes!

Also, the legendary rock climber John Gill credits his strength training on the rings for his boundary-breaking strength in the world of rock climbing. Interestingly, Mr. Gill didn't begin training on the still rings until his freshman year in college; yet in only two years he was doing crosses, levers and butterflies (a straight arm pull-up).

In fact, Gill became so strong that he could perform seven consecutive pull-ups with his right arm and five with his left. Yet remember, he didn’t begin any organized athletic training until a young man in college.

First off... Blairbob thank you for correcting my spelling. I'm kind of embarrassed by the mistake (just a tiny bit) but in my defense I was in a hurry and I was tired. lol

As for the size thing: I know all about the freakish nature of bodybuilding and have no intention of getting that big. As I've said before... I just want to be bigGER, not become huge. God... it's hard to explain because size is relative, so let me use a visual aid - the picture on Coach's upcoming book.

I want to look like that COLD! I don't even care if I'm not that shredded or defined. A slightly fuller chest maybe...

As for getting Coaches book, videos and ring... WAAAAY ahead of you my good man. I already ordered it. :wink:

blueyes how old are you? you sound young to me and very eager to "get big"... my only point is if you are young... its hard to hypertrophy and you just need to give it time... getting "big" takes time and maturity... don't rush it... let it happen... just work hard and give it time...

if i'm wrong then my mistake... i'm sorry

Griffdrc... I'm actually not in a hurry, I just don't want it to take years like it does for gymnasts, because they do not focus on getting big per se... it just happens to them because of what they do.

As for my age... I stopped counting lol because age to me really IS just a number. I feel 27/28 but I'm a few years older.

I actually believe you are in a hurry, and need to readjust your goals. All of your topics have consisted of hypertrophy, gaining size/mass, and being as strong and big as gymnast in under a few years if I've been readying correctly.

I know people that take 15grams or creatine everyday, along with about 50g of whey protein on top of their already fatty and heavy diet and still do not lift as much as me, but their size gains are more noticeable. This may seem like it's not really related because you are not taking supplements but it is closely related, they work out for the wrong reasons and for the wrong goals, your questions have been close to those of a skinny guy trying to get larger to impress himself or others. Now I don't mean this in the wrong way, just look at the work put in by those around these forums, they put many hours, or reading and working, so if you are not ready to put years of work in, well then like I said look over your goals.

Kbryk... you are making assumptions. I can not explain myself any more clear and you misread everything I wrote.

I already gained size within two months of PUTTING IN WORK and I'm happy with that. The fact that I do not want to wait years to get bigGER (not BIG) is what I want and that's that. I don't see anything wrong with it.

As for not taking supplements... Well you are assuming here as well. As a matter of fact I'm taking a whole mini pharmacy of supplements. whey and casein protein, creatine, BCAs, fish oil, Zinc-Magnesium, L-Lysine, L-Arginine, Lecithin and a daily multi.

And I never said that I don't want to put in the work. I said that I don't particularly care for exercise and if I could just take a pill and poof, be the size and strength I want to be I would. But I know that that won't happen like (ever). And I actually like the feeling and YES the looks I'm getting so I don't mind doing it.

I just don't want the results to take years. So your point is...? 8)

Well my point is all of your topics seem to be structured around size, and that is a pet peeve of mine, I'll assume everything it's something I do well, I'm not here to argue I'm just here because this is a community and I treat it as such. I post my opinions on matters and what I think I see.

Of course you haven't said you don't want to put in the work, but I could infer that you have from everything you've been saying.

I just don't want it to take years like it does for gymnasts

And who hasn't seen sayings like these

To look like a fighter you must train like one

I'm trying to not be a jerk here, I same the same thing for everyone that posts about size.

I'm also not trying to bring you down at all, work is work, and it should leave you feeling good, and I'm glad it has for you.

I also think my point is I've been working on these skills for a few years and know how it is, and I've also trained under a coach in gymnastics, so I think or believe at least I have some slight credibility, that's all.

I think a good example of some of the themes in this thread is the picture of the gymnast on the front of the book. Can't remember his name, and don't want to look it up.

I think you could get a body that looked like his in a far shorter amount of time than a body that looked and functioned like his. His look is what I want, half because he looks incredibly strong, and half because he is really strong.

Or maybe you get to a certain size, but eventually your size gains slow in relation to your strength gains.

Kbryk... I am not saying that we need to argue here or that I do not respect the fact that people (including you) know what you're talking about.

I guess I was just a bit frustrated partly because I can't explain exactly what I mean and partly because I kept repeating myself and it still got taken out of context.

Also, I think this is the right time to clarify something... I got a PM from someone on this board basically saying that they thought I am being sarcastic and I should know better (specially after they inferred that my age is not 15 - which is what they thought it was) and that I should cut it out and watch myself.

Listen, it's one thing to be respectful and keeping a civil environment around here and it's a whole other thing to expect people to be saints and to "walk around on eggshells". I noticed even before I joined this board that some people are hyper sensitive here and are made to apologize for things they should not have to. I'm sorry but that's just bizarre to me... I am a direct person and I'm usually to the point. It doesn't mean I don't respect people or that I'm not being polite.

Also, I hope everyone understands that it's pretty difficult to convey tone in written words. So, just because something SEEMS to be offensive it doesn't mean it IS. That is why I try to use emoticons as much as I can, so people know where I'm coming from.

So, just so everyone knows: I will not change my style, I'm not being mean and I DO NOT mean disrespect when I write.

Alright, back to you Kbyrk... That line you quoted means just that, I do not want it to take years. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no hidden meaning about not wanting to put in the work.

And Mark... yes, you are right. AT FIRST I want the look ASAP and THEN I want the function. Obviously, since the main source of exercise would be gymnastics, a certain degree of function would follow even though the main focus initially would be the size thing.

As I've said before... regardless how impatient I come across, the fact that I'm emphasizing getting the size thing first and fast does not mean that I want it yesterday or that I want it in 10 minutes or 10 days. It just means that I do not want to wait for years, which is what would happen it seems if I did purely what gymnasts do.

Whew...

We are just trying to help you bud. I guess we are sensitive community, because we don't want people to get the misconception that gymnastics strength and skills are easy to acquire, we want people to understand this is an efficient way to get all the stuff people are looking for, size, strength, form etc. but with some restrictions time, form, function, adequate amounts of everything. That's all, you came off strong and seemingly "wanting" but we have respect for each other and the training and time we have involved, so that is why we are "touchy" go to some hormone raging forum, and I use forum as derogatory term, this is a community become a member through your posts and work and you will get it back, not saying we have no respect for you, just everything is acquire as time progresses.

Sorry to get off topic the main subject.

kbryk said:

That's all, you came off strong and seemingly "wanting" but we have respect for each other and the training and time we have involved, so that is why we are "touchy" go to some hormone raging forum, and I use forum as derogatory term, this is a community become a member through your posts and work and you will get it back, not saying we have no respect for you, just everything is acquire as time progresses.

This whole section makes no sense to me, but ehh...

But great vids anyhow. Specially the "handstand fun" one.

Blueyes,

It was not someone, it was a board moderator (me, if anyone was wondering) ...And as a moderator I have been tasked with the responsibility of keeping things civil and on track here. Something I take seriously, and a lot of hard work I hope is appreciated.

I mentioned I thought you were 15 because of the borderline arrogant way you started off, with no attempt to try and fit in with the way people conduct themselves here. People of that age don't always have the experience to judge social situations accurately, and get a little extra latitude in my eyes. When I realised you didn't have that excuse to hide behind, I felt it appropriate to say something. You will find "cut it out and watch [yourself]" are your words, not mine. Mine were "Please tone down the sarcasm, and treat people with a little more respect. If people have misunderstood your questions it is because you have been unclear, not because they have misunderstood".

Kbryk is correct: The reason we are so "overly" civil in our community is because that is how we like it. Those who did not like it have voted with their feet. The fact that you think it's OK to be disrespectful and demanding just because you don't mean to be, or have used an emoticon :roll:, doesn't change the fact that you are behaving poorly.

If you don't like the way things are conducted here, please go somewhere you will fit in, and I wish you all happiness there. By all means stay, listen, learn, ask intelligent questions and become part of the community ...but do it on our terms, the terms that evolved along with the community, and don't expect us to adjust to yours.

Regards,

George.