Looking for advice (warning! big detailed post)

Hej everyone,

I am pretty new here and have been reading the forums A LOT lately and decided it was time to get serious about this now that I have some money, free time and am almost injury free. This may be a long post and dont feel the need to read it all if you dont want to/ have to. I have added so much just in case you need extra information about me. I will high light the important parts of this post .

I am only interested in most effecient route to my goals I am pure strength orientated couldn't care less about hypertrophy but if I am to grow bigger I want it to from what I understand, myofibular hypertrophy and not sarcoplasmic. Time is no worries as long as I am working effeciently if the smartest way to my goals is to spend 3 hours training with mostly rest so be it. I am not a fan of endurance for example holding static positions for long periods of time but I understand sometimes it needs to be done but if possible i would like to limit it where I can and plan on working on endurance more after I have a solid foundation.

I have a few questions at the bottom but what I am after is anyone who is willing to look over my routine and questions and throw in their thoughts or advice about it all.

I have an issue with my right wrist needs surgery to fix So i do everything on my knuckles would like to move that to finger tips ( cant bend my hand backwards and put too much pressure on it because of the cyst)

I am trying to reach my goals in the safest most effecient way

Time is no issue for me

I understand this is a process that takes years

These are my first goals once acheived I will list my new goals

Would love some insight from slizz or any other veterans of the program out there!

Equipment is limited I have the floor and Possibly some rings soon but I shouldn't count on rings too much atm assume I will be using a single bar for most things

Not interested in weights right now

Will work more dynamic explosive stuff when I feel I have a solid base of strength

Goals: 10sec or more floor stradle planche + 2-5 pushup (would be cool to do it on my finger tips)

10 sec or more front lever + 2-5pullup

10 sec or more back lever

10 sec or more side lever

10 sec or more high MSH

2-5 solid form freestanding HSPU

L-press to handstand

2-5 OAC

2 finger pullup (1 finger per hand. I used to be able to do it a year ago while i was climbing)

around 7-8% BF (body fat)

death grip and a bullet proof body! (thinking of iron body training) =D

Current Abilities : advanced frog 6x10

Front lever tuck 6x10

back lever tuck 3-6x10 (much much easier than german hang for my shoulders also wary about elbows so thinking of doing less sets)

German hang (never really tested my max as I am wary about my shoulders and elbows feel them a lot more but I have gone to 25 seconds stopping afraid to get injured)

side lever non exsistant (circular HLL about 5x3)

HePU against wall (can do about a 5 second negative once i hit 90Degrees is when it gets hard)

L-sit 6x10

solid form wall handstand 30 seconds ( have done a 10 second free standing handstand with good form once in the park was stoked =D )

headstand press (Pretty easy not sure how to progress to wall assisted press going to try negatives)

uneven chins 5x3 (off hand several inches below bar)

All the pre reqs for 60 seconds but havent tried 3 sets of 60 dont think I can do that yet(Im a bit ocd when it comes to good form)

Stats: height: 184cm (6'1 or there abouts)

Weight: 80kgs ( 79-81kg)

BF%: Unkown ( 73-75kg I guess to be around10% as I can see my 6 pack around that weight atm its just a barely visable 4pack. I heard 10% or lower those muscles become defined)

Age: 24

BMR: 1900Cal ish ( according to online calculators....)

Backround: Have been very active on and off, body weight going up and down a lot. I was a fat kid at around 90kilos in my early teens leaning out a bit as i hit 16-17+ . When ever I do exercise I give it my all and work hard. I have done a few years of martial arts Played numerous sports mostly football (soccer) when I was younger. I have been on an off rock climbing for the past 2 years mostly bouldering best route was a 7a( or a V6 ish) if that means anything to anyone. I have big heavy legs probably due to the huige amount of riding and walking I did as a kid (talking 10 km a day riding and half that walking minimum every day for years as a teenager) I have lifted weights in the gym but most recently climbing until i injured my finger Dedided then to start training for iron man got to the point where I could swim 3km ride 40km and then follow that with a run for 25 km ( so stilll some ways off from iron man!) I injured my ankle In a climbing accident 4 months ago as well as moving to sweden so havent trained triathlon for a good 6-8 months. when i injured my ankle I stopped most of my exercise except for bodyweight stuff. I Started focusing more on that over the past 4 months just recently found this website and it is full of such amazing info I really wish i had discovered the teachings of coach sommer years ago! atm I am still doing some occasional bodyweight work not very routine but i have included the FSP for the past 2-3 months.

Current plan: I plan on sticking to a 12 week SSC with the FSP and once i have a solid 25sec TuT per set for 5 sets on each exercise I will spend an aditional 4 weeks or so just solidifying my gains before moving tot he next progression.I would like to achieve all my goals listed above I am in no rush but at the same time once my ankle is fully recovered I would like to work back into running and swimming and rock climbing again (mostly bouldering) but it seems like that could be just to much and I dont want there to be anything that slows down the process. I have so many questions it feels like I dont know where to begin. I have probably read 80% of the forum posts especially in the basic strength and getting started sections and there is so much valuable information in there I think I have a grasp on quite a lot of it.

Every Morning: 60s of all Pre FSP( although the bridge and reverse bridge are more like planche leans and reverse planche leans)

shoulder inlocates x25-50??( is that what they are called?)

wrist push ups x25- 50??

full body stretching (no idea about a stretching routine yet)

back bend bridge thing 1 set hands 1 set on head hold for a few sets of 50% holds??

scapular and elbow prehab mobility stuff( havent really set up much of a routine for this either yet)

Ankle mobility and re-hab ( mostly properception( think i spelt that wrong))

Afternoon Training:

WarmUp: 5-10 min bike ride

a few skin the cats

quick circuit of Pre FSP 10-15 seconds each

M / Tu / Th / F: FSP

6x10 Front lever

6x10Advanced frog

3-6x10back lever (or german hang? kinda unsure about this as back lever is much easier the german hang stretches the crap outta my left shoulder also cautious about elbows).

6x10 L-sit

5-10 mins of handstand work including rest time(against the wall but mostly focusing on form for the first 5 mins or so then the rest trying to get off the wall and balance)

3x10 Body lever holds (around 35-45 degrees I think)

FBE: trying to keep each set to around 15-25 seconds TuT using 3 1 3 or 2 1 2 tempo ( so 3-5 reps per set)

Monday: 3-5 sets PPPu (feet elevated so my body is horizontal)

3-5 sets Rows ( tuck front lever)

3 sets Headstand RLL

3 sets HLL start at L-hang to V-hang finishing at L-hang ( or should I do hollowbody full hang to V-hang?) Going full rom relaxing at bottom feels to easy

Tuesday: 3-5 sets Russian dips ( they feel much harder than the next couple of variations so I am going to take it easy on these. dont want tendonitis again!)

3-5 sets Inverted curls ( love these not sure what full rom is but i get my arms to 90 degrees at least)

3 sets wind shield wipers -half

Wednesday: 10km Run ( injured ankle will take some time before I can start running again maybe in a month or 2 i can run 1km)

Thursday: 3-5 sets OAC - assisted ( off hand approx 3-5 inches lower than working hand)

3-5 sets Pike box HePU ( I dont really like these would prefer to do negatives or something else that could help HSPU)

3 sets Inverted hang RLL ( or just headstand RLL again?)

3 sets HLL ( same as monday)

Friday: 3-5 sets 360 pulls (tuck)

3 sets assisted side lever pulls? ( on my side upperbody mostly on a table lifting my legs up and down using obliques)

3-5 sets pull overs ( not sure if i will do these yet)

3-5 sets GHM-half or Assisted NLC

Satuday/Sunday:

1-2 hours Rockclimbing ( when foot is healed enough maybe a couple months more usually like to climb for 1-2 hours bouldering lots of rest time)

30min-1 hours Swimming ( Used to swim at just over a 3km per hour pace for an hour thinking of only working up to 2km/ph pace)

45min Running ( working up to 10km in those 45 mins once ankle is healed)

Questions:

1. is my routine ideal? is there too much or too little of anything? I am not currently interested in WODs simply because I don't want to worry about scaling atm

2. Is it possible to idealy incorporate swimming, running and rock climbing and not over do it? My goals are more important right now but I would at least like some cardio in there

3. I know it may not be enough information for you but could anyone here have an educated guess at the time it would take to safely achieve those goals for me? (I like to have a rough idea on these things)

4. how should I bet eating? (SLIZZMAN?) I am going to be following your perfect pre post nutrition adivce post but I am unsure about the rest of the day?(have access to whey isolate good organic milk and mostly frozen with some fresh veggies =( some organic meat kinda expensive though)

5. how the hell do i shink my legs? I mean my thighs arent so bad as they used to be but my calves are ridiculous they are almost the same size as my thighs!

6. how the hell do I know how much to eat? ( I work in hospitality atm so 5-7 hours a day standing or walking around 5 days a week)

7. is it better to do something like L-sit for 4-6 sets of 10 seconds with a minute or less of rest between every day or to GtG kind of and do a couple sets of L-sit here and there? or combine the two?

8. eggs are a great source of protein but how many is healthy or safe to eat a week? (hear so much about them not sure what to believe)

9. If all my Gymnastics style routine is ok then would I need to take it easier on the cardio and climbing or if possible could I increase those later on as well without losing too much gymnastics performance?

I do apologise I know this is a huge post I just felt that it may be best to give as much info about myself as possible not sure what is necessary.

I appreciate everyone who takes this time out of their day to help me out. So thankyou!

If you need any more information I am sure I have forgotten some things that might be key just let me know and I'll post what ever it is you need to give me any thoughts or advice you can! thanks again.

P.s. Sorry If the colours are annoying or hard to read I can change them if they are! =)

You've clearly put a lot of thought into your programing. It seems reasonable to me. Ideal is a chimera, there is always something we can do differently.

My own thoughts, not saying this is ideal. More focus on your FBEs. Rather than doing something different the four days I'd go with an AB style program unless you are having recovery issues.

For the FSPs I'd do the same rather than do them all together, I'd do two on one day two the other.

With your wrists as they are, consider getting or making some sort of parallettes.

Cole is right about 'ideal', there is no such thing.

I also agree about not doing something different every day. But I disagree about an AB routine. You're 24 and can dial nutrition and sleep in well from the likes of it. That means you can have good recovery, so you can do like 4 FBE's each workout. Choose FBE's that complement your goals, but keep it balanced. So I'd get a row variation, pushup variation, HSPU variation, chinup variation and 1-2 exercises for legs. Then aim to improve as much as I can for 6-8 weeks, while keeping good form. Then have a back off week (doing only half the exercises and half volume) before evaluating what went well and what didn't and then going back in.

For your side lever goal: if you don't have a solid L-sit yet, don't worry about that just yet.

Cardio/rock climbing/etc.: Just do it, as long as it isn't impacting your recovery.

Legs: you could try long-distance running. 10K+

GtG: pick one. If it's more skill based (low intensity), GtG can work exceptionally well. This also follows the recovery rule: as long as it doesn't impact your recovery (keep you from getting good workouts), you can do it.

Eggs: my step-great-grandmother used to eat at least one whole egg each day. She never was sick and passed away the night she turned 96. Of course this is anecdotal, but I don't think there is harm in eating eggs.

Also, don't worry about your post length. We're used to Josh over here; I estimate you can fill at least a 2000-page book with all the material he's written.

Thank you both for going over this and letting me know what you think! really appreciate the time it took ya too read the post =)

and yea i know what you mean with slizzardmans posts his are a novel in comparison! haha but I have to say every single one of them I have read has helped me tremendously! So if you read this mate feel free to leave a novel post with your thoughts on my workout and questions .

Ok! so you guys seem to think I need to focus more on the FBEs So in that case should I incorporate horizontal and verticle push pull on the same day and then do a M/ W/ F/ instead of M / Tu/ Th/ F split or should i keep the 4 days can just maybe do half volume or intensity on 1 or 2 of them? Otherwise It feels like it would be too much? Not really sure.

Also I can actually hold a solid normal L-sit for 30 seconds even now after a full day of work and working out I managed a 25 second hold. I have had problems with my elbow though so for the next couple of months I am taking things a bit easy. Maybe its over cautious but Id rather be doing something a bit easier and making it solid than doing nothing while I recover from injury haha =D

Legs: Used to be able to run 30ish km at a 12km hour pace but its been a while and with the injury i want to build up to 10km in 40 mins and then I'll increase the distance some more

I think cole could be right in me doing say L-sit and planche day 1 then front lever back lever day 2 and so on. If thats the case should I keep handstand work 4 times a week and what about body levers?

Handstand = practice, practice, practice. Just ask Ian. So, yeah, definitely keep that 4 days a week at least.

Personally I like doing one single routine M/W/F because that allows you to get maximum practice with those movements without overworking, thus bringing maximum gains.

For your side levers, just work the stuff in the book.

Ok so M/ W / F Push Pull in both planes 4 FBE per day. Could I the perhaps do Midsection work, leg work and some light swimming ( 1km or so) on the in between days? And I think I will do HS as often as I can with a minimum of 5-10 mins 4 times a week more if I can. Also is there any benefit to doing mobility and stretching first thing in the morning and then again at night before bed? or should I just leave it for the morning? ( I use a dam hot shower to get me warmed up for it. wakes me up too! =D)

I guess side lever will come naturally with everything else I am on the progression right before side lever pulls but it seems a huge jump for me maybe wider hands HS will help more?

Oh also based on your experience and knowledge would you be able to give a ball park time frame based on the info i gave for me to complete my goals? I know it takes years to do this stuff but I really have no idea about how quickly or slowly people can progress in this stuff I figure the lowered bf % will be the first to come But the main reason for wanting that is it makes everything else easier and its not bad to look good naked too .

Ab work leg work and swimming all follow the recovery rule. Stretching in the morning can be very good if you're going light. I prefer my hard stretching done in the evening.

Just have patience for the side lever. Have you tried doing negatives? Or you could try a straddle variation.

No idea on the timeframe, that completely depends on the circumstances and the person.

Not sure what you thought I meant by AB in the context I used it Rik, I just meant Mon - workout A, Tue B, Thu A, Fri B.

Anyway it sounds like the OP figured out what we were pointing out and came up with a fine solution.

What I've been doing with my M W F workouts which are upper body days, is an ABA format with A days being my main one's working on FBE dipping and vert pulling progressions and B days higher intensity lower volume rope and HeSPU work and or Military pressing. What Rik suggests is also good.

Are you doing any leg strength work at all? With your new MWF plan there is room to add some SLS work on Tu and Th or one SLS day and a running day or both on both days.

Regarding mobility work morning and night, nothing wrong with that as long as you have the time for it.

Handstands can be worked on everyday no problem seeing as you have time.

Side levers fall in as part of the FSP work.

Cole Dano said:

Not sure what you thought I meant by AB in the context I used it Rik, I just meant Mon - workout A, Tue B, Thu A, Fri B.

Anyway it sounds like the OP figured out what we were pointing out and came up with a fine solution.

What I've been doing with my M W F workouts which are upper body days, is an ABA format with A days being my main one's working on FBE dipping and vert pulling progressions and B days higher intensity lower volume rope and HeSPU work and or Military pressing. What Rik suggests is also good.

I don't like an AB scheme as it allows for only half the practice with the FBE's you're doing.

Once again would like to thankyou for the responses! Have changed my outlook a little bit on how to go about things.

Ok so now It seems I have my FBE's sorted for a m/w/f split putting midsection and legs and cardio on the in between days. Do you guys have any good ideas for finger and grip strength training?

I was thinking of one exercise where i get into a pushup position on fingertips and have a small piece of paper on the tip of each finger (to reduce friction) then basically i pinch my fingertips together sliding them together so they come off the ground and then rinse and repeat no idea if that is good bad or just pointless but thought it could help strengthen them so that I could do things like planche and handstands on finger tips later on rather than knuckles.

Also does anyone here know anything about iron body training? you know the things you see monks do getting a stick smashed into their bellies or shins and not feeling a thing? Would love to work on something like that!

I think I will make a post in the nutrition section to find out more about how I should set up my day as far as what to and when to eat. Lower that BF % gets the better my training results will be I am sure.

Oh! i forgot! Have rings coming in the next couple of weeks or so! super excited =D

ausswe said:

(...) does anyone here know anything about iron body training? you know the things you see monks do getting a stick smashed into their bellies or shins and not feeling a thing? Would love to work on something like that! (...)

lol... it is hardly the place for that, but if you open a new thread on this topic, I am sure some will chime in.

- Ibuki breathing and some other breathing techniques must be very similar to what gymnasts use to breath while under full body tension - whether gymnasts practice the breathing specifically or do it because there are not many other ways, I don't know... I'll have to go to a seminar to verify this guess.

- Full body tension used in some gymnastic exercise is also likely very close to sanchin or "iron shirt".

- I am sure that we could smash clubs on the bellies of most gymnasts without much consequences; although it is uncertain if they would enjoy the experience!

The hardening of bones (shins) and joints (knuckles), etc... requires other techniques and some care not to injure yourself.

Oh I forgot to ask about back lever progression and german hangs. I know it says everywhere you should build up the german hang to at least 30 seconds maybe even for a few sets before doing back lever but if the german hang is far more intense on my elbows and shoulders than the tuck back lever where I dont feel that much then wouldn't it be better to progress from tuck back lever to german hang then maybe adv/ straddle afterwards?

Cheers

Don't go so deep in the German hang then. I had a similar problem, too. Go to where you're comfortable or even use foot supported German hangs. I actually did a lot of them on my knees.

Or you can focus on XR support. I believe I've read that it is an alternative if your elbows simply cannot handle the stress. Decent support will build your elbows and then you can return to BL again.

Okay, so I have partly tarted my new routine and I am liking the 4 FBE's 3 times a week muscles have been feeling a bit sore the next day now though. I am doing skin the cats/ 360tuck pulls with small 5 sec or so static holds in the german hang position to slowly build it up and I am using dips as my vertical push exercise atm as I dont enjoy box hand stand push ups at all but I really enjoy inverted curls but not sure where or when to use them? Should I add them as a 5th FBE exercise or not bother? They arent too hard I was thinking of doing them for a bit of bicep prehab in a way as I can do a good 10-15 reps of them and thought it might be a good idea to have some more volume for the bicep to help with the elbow joint preperation. what do you guys think? should I drop them have them as a 5th FBE or throw them occasionally on a rest day or something? feels a bit too much to put on a rest day but I dunno.