Anything similar to deadlift?

Is there any exercise in gymnastic training that's similar to a deadlift?

There are many back strengthening and glute / hamstring exercises if that's what you are looking for. The deadlift itself is hard to replicate by anything but doing deadlifts.

Yes, what I meant was something similar to terms of getting the benefits from doing deadlifts. Because deadlift is a compound movement that works with a variety of muscles and our "gym" does not have a free barbell, I was wondering if I should use dumbellls instead or....

Is there any exercise in gymnastic training that's similar to a deadlift?

No.

However, unless you have already mastered the SLS variations there is no need to move on to weighted leg work.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Depends on what you want to achieve with the deadlift. A close match might be something along the lines of all out sprints up a sand dune with a weight vest. Although there really is no perfect substitute.

John Sapinosa said:

A close match might be something along the lines of all out sprints up a sand dune with a weight vest.

Interestingly, if you substitute mountain for sand dune, this happens to be the coach of the top vaulter in China's favorite exercise.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Sled pull sprints, mostly forward sled pulls with a hip or waist belt, could also work for people who don't have access to mountains or sand dunes. These seem to work better with high friction resistance like a heavy tire than with low friction resistance like a prowler, although if Coach let us wear shoes on the gym floor the friction of that on the prowler is pretty rough as well

These seem to work better with high friction resistance like a heavy tire

Excellent, Josh. These tire sprints were one of the staples that Valeri Liukin had his daughter Nastia ('08 Olympic AA Gold Medalist) perform for her leg conditioning on vault.

Top Chinese vaulting coach. Coach of the Olympic Gold Medalist. Anyone noticing a pattern here? :wink:

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer said:

These seem to work better with high friction resistance like a heavy tire

Excellent, Josh. These tire sprints were one of the staples that Valeri Liukin had his daughter Nastia ('08 Olympic AA Gold Medalist) perform for her leg conditioning on vault.

Top Chinese vaulting coach. Coach of the Olympic Gold Medalist. Anyone noticing a pattern here? :wink:

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Hahaha, I had no idea! It makes sense though. I would imagine that doing both together would be the best way to go, especially for a vault specialist. For all around athletes the tires are probably a bit better, I would think that they won't cause as much overall hypertrophy and thus maintain a more advantaged center of gravity for the all-around athlete.

What kind of distances, rounds, and frequency are recommended when doing tire/sled sprints? Seems like this stuff would be quite tough on the CNS.

Joshua Naterman said:

Coach Sommer said:

These seem to work better with high friction resistance like a heavy tire

Excellent, Josh. These tire sprints were one of the staples that Valeri Liukin had his daughter Nastia ('08 Olympic AA Gold Medalist) perform for her leg conditioning on vault.

Top Chinese vaulting coach. Coach of the Olympic Gold Medalist. Anyone noticing a pattern here? :wink:

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Hahaha, I had no idea! It makes sense though. I would imagine that doing both together would be the best way to go, especially for a vault specialist. For all around athletes the tires are probably a bit better, I would think that they won't cause as much overall hypertrophy and thus maintain a more advantaged center of gravity for the all-around athlete.

What would cause more hypertrophy? Also, do you squeeze the scaps back on a straight bar deadlift? Or shrug the shoulders up when you pull off the floor?

Patrick Smith said:

What kind of distances, rounds, and frequency are recommended when doing tire/sled sprints? Seems like this stuff would be quite tough on the CNS.

It can be, this really depends on how hard you are working and what you want from your training. If I were using both, I would be using the weight vest for slow jogs and every other sprint workout, with the tires also being used every other sprint workout.

If you are looking for all-out single run sprint speed and leg power, sprinting as hard as possible for 3-5 sprints with 5-10 minutes of rest between each sprint is a really good idea. Doing too much volume on this, just like anything else, can lead to tendon degeneration so volume should be built slowly. Eventually this may get to as much as 7-10 sprints to workout, 3 days per week. In high intensity work you just don't want to work more than every other day because as you get used to the training you will eventually (in 6 months or a little less, with regular work) be able to push hard enough to where the CNS is the primary limiting factor, and that takes 48-72 hours to fully recover from super hard work.

Hypertrophy is primarily a function of overall time under tension with a given load and proper nutrient timing and distribution. Explosive work in general is not the best way to get the most hypertrophy, it is the best way to develop power. It is an important component of training, but because of the nature of the training it is hard to push the body close enough to the strain point of the tissue for the time under tension of each set to get a significant hypertrophy response.

This is also dangerous to try to do, because each step is such high force that it is very easy to progressively damage the tendons and the musculotendinous junctions, as well as the muscle bellies themselves. You are dealing with a very delicate threshold, where by comparison slower, non-explosive training has a much more controlled force generation that allows for precise loading and TUT to the point where significant tissue remodeling occurs, without much risk of accidentally going too far. You CAN go too far, as many of us have found out for ourselves, but it takes a much more serious mis-judgement of what your body can handle.

during my last meet with my friend who is senior RKC coach i tried single leg dead lift (standard or romanian dead lift) with kettlebell or elastic band..

works for gluteus, lowerback, posterior part of leg and core stabilization...no doubt that the tecnique plays a big role with the utility of the exercise...

Yes, you have to stick your butt back to activate the glutes, otherwise it is all hamstrings.

Standard method for DL taught at the RKC certs to those that have never done it before is very emphasized on hips backs for glute engagement. Key for proper swings too. No glutes no power.

I'd like to share something about deadlift strength and gymnastics training

My training before GB was with machines and light dumbbells and I've never touched a barbell in my life.

Yesterday I bought 100Kg of standard plates and a standard barbell since I thought I was very weak in barbell training and didn't need olympic bars and plates. I was curious and I wanted to test my Deadlift strength as I have only performed RDLs with 10Kg dumbbells.

I was able to deadlift all 100kg of plates at a bodyweight of 55Kg :shock: . I also tested my clean and push press and it was 60kg.

I program my training mainly on Inverted rows, dips and RLLs and i am helping with the construction of my house by moving 4x4s and 5x5s around . What do you guys think contributed to my "newbie barbell strength" ?

All of it. Literally everything that you have done has had an impact. The strength and learning to use your body from the gymnastic work was carried over to picking things up with the house construction. Very basic explanation but everything done had an impact.

lol! Doing house construction is a nice idea to lose fat, maintain conditioning and build muscle if you hate boring cardio and you have the time. And as usual the construction workers working for me are more muscular than 95% of the natural average gym rat and they've never heard of "burn sets", "forced reps" or "squats are bad for your knees" or even the "BENCH PRESS" :shock: .

z5LMZSM_4NM

This dude weighs 120 lb.

:shock: @ 4:30

Joshua Naterman said:

It can be, this really depends on how hard you are working and what you want from your training. If I were using both, I would be using the weight vest for slow jogs and every other sprint workout, with the tires also being used every other sprint workout.

If you are looking for all-out single run sprint speed and leg power, sprinting as hard as possible for 3-5 sprints with 5-10 minutes of rest between each sprint is a really good idea. Doing too much volume on this, just like anything else, can lead to tendon degeneration so volume should be built slowly. Eventually this may get to as much as 7-10 sprints to workout, 3 days per week. In high intensity work you just don't want to work more than every other day because as you get used to the training you will eventually (in 6 months or a little less, with regular work) be able to push hard enough to where the CNS is the primary limiting factor, and that takes 48-72 hours to fully recover from super hard work.

Hypertrophy is primarily a function of overall time under tension with a given load and proper nutrient timing and distribution. Explosive work in general is not the best way to get the most hypertrophy, it is the best way to develop power. It is an important component of training, but because of the nature of the training it is hard to push the body close enough to the strain point of the tissue for the time under tension of each set to get a significant hypertrophy response.

This is also dangerous to try to do, because each step is such high force that it is very easy to progressively damage the tendons and the musculotendinous junctions, as well as the muscle bellies themselves. You are dealing with a very delicate threshold, where by comparison slower, non-explosive training has a much more controlled force generation that allows for precise loading and TUT to the point where significant tissue remodeling occurs, without much risk of accidentally going too far. You CAN go too far, as many of us have found out for ourselves, but it takes a much more serious mis-judgement of what your body can handle.

I know this is a HUGE bump but I just finished a HIIT session earlier today at the local track and was just wondering:

For the sprint workout you're mentioning here, for how long (in seconds) or far (in meters) do you recommend to build single sprint speed?

JamesP said:

For the sprint workout you're mentioning here, for how long (in seconds) or far (in meters) do you recommend to build single sprint speed?

hehe, it depends...

For pure acceleration power & speed, 40/50 m is enough.

To develop your work capacity and sprint endurance, you can work up to 300m

And anything in between...

FredInChina said:

hehe, it depends...

For pure acceleration power & speed, 40/50 m is enough.

To develop your work capacity and sprint endurance, you can work up to 300m

And anything in between...

Honestly, if you can sprint all out for 300m something is very wrong with you

The 100m is the 100m for a reason folks.  It contains exploding out of the blocks, acceleration, further acceleration and even pacing.  Very few olympic sprinters can keep up 100% intensity the whole length of the track.  Obviously for a sprinter you'd want to get the endurance practice of a 400m and practice accelerating into a sprint from a jog, for short lengths (10-20m) but if you're just a crazy guy who likes running, hates jogging, 100m up a hill a few times should get you there.

If you're really hardcore, there's always tabata...

Bipocni said:

Honestly, if you can sprint all out for 300m something is very wrong with you

 

The 100m is the 100m for a reason folks.  It contains exploding out of the blocks, acceleration, further acceleration and even pacing.  Very few olympic sprinters can keep up 100% intensity the whole length of the track.  Obviously for a sprinter you'd want to get the endurance practice of a 400m and practice accelerating into a sprint from a jog, for short lengths (10-20m) but if you're just a crazy guy who likes running, hates jogging, 100m up a hill a few times should get you there.

 

If you're really hardcore, there's always tabata...

He never said sprint all out for 300m,  just for the work capacity and sprint endurance (special endurance 1 & 2).

JamesP said:

For the sprint workout you're mentioning here, for how long (in seconds) or far (in meters) do you recommend to build single sprint speed?

In regards to Slizzardmans post, I would probably say until you slow down is the simplest answer.  Once you've lost momentum and form you're not really training speed/power/explosiveness anymore.  There's more cardiovascular benefit to running as hard as you can until you can't go any further, but if you practiced this regularly you would probably just get slower...

B1214N said:

He never said sprint all out for 300m,  just for the work capacity and sprint endurance (special endurance 1 & 2).

You're right of course, but JamesP was asking about the original sprint workout proposed by slizzardman.  In which he did specifically mention an all out sprint.

I should mention, I have very little experience in track & field.  A well designed sprint program would include far more elements than we've discussed here.

However, in my experience, 100m hill sprints will make you fast.  When I tried sprinting on a flat surface, I honestly scared myself with how fast I was going.  (Felt like I couldn't control my momentum)