maltese?

[Vayzenshtat]

Assuming I can actually hold this for 2 seconds, would you guys call this a maltese? I would also like to know why my planches are significantly worse than my malteses. I can hold a straddled maltese almost as easily as an advanced tuck planche, which doesn't make any sense to me. Thanks in advance.

http://youtu.be/2JyAgolo6Og

[Ian Legrow]

Unfortunatley, the comment above is correct.Your straddle in the XR was not up to par either, and if you don't have that 100%correct then you should be nowhere near traingin for a maltese. SOmetimes people want to do things quickly, but that usually causes people to get injured. I world recommed definitely going back to the basics until you get a solid hold on them.

[Vayzenshtat]

That wasn't a straddle L. I just found that to be an easy way to get into the maltese. I'll improve my planches and then revisit malteses. I can hold a straddled maltese with good form and they don't cause me any pain. I can also hold a front lever and an iron cross. It took me over 2 years to develop the tendon strength necessary for an iron cross

[Vayzenshtat]

Thank you for your input. I'll upload my planche and maltese progress soon

[Vayzenshtat]

There's an old video of my fl on my youtube channel

[Vayzenshtat]

I don't know why you think that I don't have any basic strength because of the fact that I can't hold a maltese

[Ian Legrow]

Its not that we don't think you have the basic strength, its the fact that you just went into the maltese without seeming the have the proper foundation to do so. If you CAN, bravo! but its one of the hardest elements on rings and is something most of us have to see to beleieve.

But I have watched your front lever video. And it proves you need the basics. You are pretty piked while you are in it and you only hold it for a second and a half. I really believe you need to just take your time and not look for ways to become amazing on ring before you're ready

[Blairbob]

But I have watched your front lever video. And it proves you need the basics.

Ehh, it's fairly alright, man. Yes, the head should be neutral and not tilted back and it's a short hold. But apparently it's and old video. Pretty piked? No, not really. It eventually goes to low though and barely seems to stay still.

I know of one kid in college who competes maltese but not planche. For some maltese is easier than planche. He says it has something to do with the lockout. There are a few tricks you can do with Malt that won't work with planche.

Getting back to the video, it's still too high with no locked off hold. Try Maltese leans or Maltese tuck (wasn't it straddled?).

[Vayzenshtat]

Thanks. Yea that wasn't really a straddle. I'm not sure what I'd call it. I'll just be working on these for now:

[ELITELIFTER]

Thanks. Yea that wasn't really a straddle. I'm not sure what I'd call it. I'll just be working on these for now:

Definitely I little ways from a technically correct maltese, but your arms looked straight when you leaned which is probably the most important thing. I would try to maintain hollow body in the lean though. Can you lean forward through the position in that video, but then lower to a nice horizontal full lay back lever?

Best of luck!

[Rings]

Can do maltese,or can´t do maltese...I don´t care,just I see that you have very strong arms,this pose with straight arms is very hard.

Congratulations!

I saw a video of a gymnast talking about the "trick" of maltese: Support the lats on the thiceps,expand the back tensing the traps,"shrug"......can help to develop a Maltese.

Yeah,I guess is soon to work with maletese yet,but why not playing around with,just for fun. Just be carefully :wink:

Keep working your amazing straight arm strength!

[Brian Li]

Nice, your getting close. Are you a gymnast or have you had a gymnastics background and how long did it take for you to get to this pseudo maltese position when you first started to train for a maltese?

[Vayzenshtat]

Thanks everyone. Yes I can lower from a maltese to a back lever and no I don't have a gymnastics background. I actually held this position on my first try. I was training straddle planches and realized that a straddle maltese is much easier for me. I developed my straight arm strength from training crosses and back levers for a very long time. I also trained OAC, ring flyes, planche leans with my hands facing backwards, bent arm malteses and reverse muscle ups. Ring flyes, planche leans and bent arm malteses were probably the most helpful

[Blairbob]

Well, I have heard for some that they found maltese easier for them than planche. No idea as it's beyond what I was able to do.

[Vayzenshtat]

Here is my progress with the maltese. I have a lot of trouble maintaining a hollow body. I might need to get a planche in order to achieve the right body position for a maltese. The problem is that I've been having a lot of wrist pain lately so its difficult to train planches.

[Brian Li]

Nice attempt! I think you should also strengthen your serratus anterior for a stronger protraction which will help optimize force production of the prime movers.

What kind of maltese work have you been doing for your maltese and which one feels harder for you - planche or maltese? Are you also capable of a straddle planche currently? Thanks in advanced, just wanted to see how strong your planche is currently when you could do this maltese attempt.

[Vayzenshtat]

Thanks. When I trained planches I was able to hold a straddle planche for 2 seconds. Now I can't even check my planche progress because of my wrists. I find a Maltese significantly easier than a planche. I actually haven't been training the maltese lately either. I lost about 6 kg of fat so my strength to weight ratio skyrocketed. I can actually do a stage 4 pelican but I can't hold the planche.

[Joshua Naterman]

You are not even remotely close to anything, I am sorry to say. This is going to be blunt, because you need it and others need to read it.

Your idea of maltese leans can absolutely work if performed hollow, but you literally instantly go into an arched back. Mark my words, because these are coming from someone who has seen this before and who has had to go back and fix everything himself, with excellent results.

You will never have a decent maltese until you have a solid hollow body the whole time. The reason you are arching is because you are too weak in the serratus anterior and chest, and almost certainly because you also have no idea how to co-activate the lats. You can't have the lats helping in that particular position anyways, it doesn't work. Angles are all wrong. For the right muscles to work at the right time you need the right position first and foremost, and let's be honest: Your position is terrible and has gotten worse because it is what you practice... you have gotten very good at arching as soon as the position gets more difficult, and the more difficult it gets the more you arch. You are trying to find stronger muscles that are already there to support you by doing this, but there aren't any there. You have to build them from scratch, which is what you are unintentionally trying to avoid.

For you, you need to start with push ups. Get into a hollow, keep the hollow all the way down and all the way up. Same with dips. You can not build hollow strength without being hollow, and that means going back to basics, just like Ian said.

The reason it was said that you don't have basic strength is not because you can't hold the maltese, it's because you can't stay hollow during your attempts. Hollow = THE most basic. Maltese = super advanced. If you can't hold the most basic position during an exercise, you should not be doing that exercise.

Guys in your situation are going to benefit immensely, and I mean that, from the 2nd edition of BtGB.

I am not questioning your work ethic, but I am betting you 50 bucks right now that your pelican does not have the same body position as what is shown in the pelican video by an actual gymnast. I am betting that you are arched like you wouldn't even believe. Since you can't hold a planche, that is clearly obvious since the "stage 4 pelican" ends in planche position. Even in that video the guy has a pretty heavy-duty lumbar arch at the end of the rep which is not what you want, but at least his chest stayed hollow. It was halfway right. His negative looks great, but the last half of the concentric falls apart. He'd be better off tucking some or straddling or something so that he could maintain a flat back.

There is, quite honestly, nothing left to say. You now know where you need to start off, it is simply a question of whether your pride will let you do what is best for your body or if it will force you to keep going the way you are going. Good luck, it's not an easy decision. I don't envy you, it took me more than a year to make the full mental transition. It was totally worth it, but man it took a long time.

[Cole Dano]

Someone had to say it!

[Ian Legrow]

unfortunatley, like i said previously, i feel this is very very quick way to injury

[Vayzenshtat]

I'll take your advice. It isnt a matter of pride. I don't mind taking a step back since my approach isnt exactly working. I just assumed that I'd be able to hold an arched maltese and then progress to holding one with a hollow body. My body is hollow when I do pseudo malteses, back levers and pelicans. I injured my wrists because I trained handstands every day and didn't listen to my body. I've never had elbow issues because I took my time conditioning my elbows. The position in the video does not cause me discomfort and I don't really see myself getting injured from it. I'm still going to fix my approach

[Gregor]

You are not even remotely close to anything, I am sorry to say. This is going to be blunt, because you need it and others need to read it.

Your idea of maltese leans can absolutely work if performed hollow, but you literally instantly go into an arched back. Mark my words, because these are coming from someone who has seen this before and who has had to go back and fix everything himself, with excellent results.

You will never have a decent maltese until you have a solid hollow body the whole time. The reason you are arching is because you are too weak in the serratus anterior and chest, and almost certainly because you also have no idea how to co-activate the lats. You can't have the lats helping in that particular position anyways, it doesn't work. Angles are all wrong. For the right muscles to work at the right time you need the right position first and foremost, and let's be honest: Your position is terrible and has gotten worse because it is what you practice... you have gotten very good at arching as soon as the position gets more difficult, and the more difficult it gets the more you arch. You are trying to find stronger muscles that are already there to support you by doing this, but there aren't any there. You have to build them from scratch, which is what you are unintentionally trying to avoid.

For you, you need to start with push ups. Get into a hollow, keep the hollow all the way down and all the way up. Same with dips. You can not build hollow strength without being hollow, and that means going back to basics, just like Ian said.

The reason it was said that you don't have basic strength is not because you can't hold the maltese, it's because you can't stay hollow during your attempts. Hollow = THE most basic. Maltese = super advanced. If you can't hold the most basic position during an exercise, you should not be doing that exercise.

Guys in your situation are going to benefit immensely, and I mean that, from the 2nd edition of BtGB.

I am not questioning your work ethic, but I am betting you 50 bucks right now that your pelican does not have the same body position as what is shown in the pelican video by an actual gymnast. I am betting that you are arched like you wouldn't even believe. Since you can't hold a planche, that is clearly obvious since the "stage 4 pelican" ends in planche position. Even in that video the guy has a pretty heavy-duty lumbar arch at the end of the rep which is not what you want, but at least his chest stayed hollow. It was halfway right. His negative looks great, but the last half of the concentric falls apart. He'd be better off tucking some or straddling or something so that he could maintain a flat back.

There is, quite honestly, nothing left to say. You now know where you need to start off, it is simply a question of whether your pride will let you do what is best for your body or if it will force you to keep going the way you are going. Good luck, it's not an easy decision. I don't envy you, it took me more than a year to make the full mental transition. It was totally worth it, but man it took a long time.

hmmm interesting...

It's not always black or white 8) I see what I highlighted as a bold the biggest problem. I had same problems, it went all on to muscle co-activation at the end...Needed two years after that to achieve the perfect line.

First problem is mental! If you are not strong enough yet to be there, you naturaly hold back-arch back, because you think if you lean forward on shoulders you will fall as a rotten apple. IT's the same problem in most planches you see and most of them (99%) are asking how should they strengthen their back, but obviously they are just not leaning enough further.

Of course if they and in a matter of a fact Vayzenshtat would lean forward on a shoulders they whould have straight line but would not hold it yet.

So it's not so fas away as it seems, but still at least a year of a hard training (for this rings height).

If I know what I know now: I would hold that maltese instead of in two years time from already arched maltese, just a year or even a half of a year.

MAltese and planches are so common as a helicopters and a planes: both flies but diffrent...

GOLDEN ADVICES:

1. do TAKE all advices they gave you, and use it!

2. When you try next time maltese lean forward to make perfect hollow or straight (no matter if you will go slowely to BL and not holding even a second in maltese). Don't be affraid if first 10 tries are bed (they always are)...

3. Not strong enough keep practicing...

[Joshua Naterman]

Thanks Gregor! It really is just practice, practice, practice!

If you notice, Gregor bolded "co-activate the lats" in my last post. That pretty much just means you need to feel the lats contract at the same time as everything else.

There are some really neat new drills to teach this, but the basic idea is that you don't just want to be pressing down towards the ground... you need to be reaching for your feet with your elbows. Not your shoulders, not your hands. Elbows. I know that sounds really stupid, but the lats attach to the upper arm. It is much easier when your mind is "in" the elbow. There are too many ways for reaching with the shoulders to go wrong, and trying to do this with hands will usually mess up your position. The elbow is harder to screw up and easier to make the lats work with in my experience.

If others want to share their tips, please do! There's no guarantee that what I just wrote makes any sense to anyone except me

[Gregor]

Not realy new tip, but obviously not said enough If your perception is correct then exercise is closer. I often say push rings down but with that on my mind think on stress on elbows when pressing. That is why is better to have a coach near you when he shows something (not on apparatus but with gestures, you see what he thinks even if he is not saying all) and also it's much easier to explain in person than on forum. Hope you understand what I mean.