Two questions on handstand and planche

My first question is about planche, right now I can barely hold a bend arm tucked planche on the floor, however when I do straight arm, I found that when I lean to the point my legs can be barely lifted off the floor I would fall onto my face, is it because the lack of shoulder strength? What's the best way to build this strength?

Second question is about handstand, I can hold a handstand leaning against a wall for over a minute. Now I am trying to find the feeling of free-standing handstand by first removing one of the legs off the wall then bring the second leg to the first, as soon as I do 95% the time both legs would fall to the wall right away, could someone tell me what I need to to overcome this? (like which muscles I need to contract more and is there a technique issue I need to be aware of?)

And another question related to handstand, if I do more than 2-3 sets of handstand at night, the next morning I would see several red dots under my eyes (busted capillaries), I had this thing for a few years so sometimes I want to try train more but I don't feel like destroying my face. Is there a solution to this besides sucking it up and stay tough?

The planche problem is probably a lack of strength in a number of areas and just the lack of coordination that you have between them. This is normal and you just need to practice the frog stand and advanced frog stand until you feel like your balance is solid.

Others may have more to say about this as I am fairly new to the gymnastics world.

It is normal to fall against the wall. This problem is best corrected by doing chest to wall handstands. Make sure you keep your body tight and straight. You will want to hold your core and butt tight in this position. I'm still working on a solid handstand and can only hold mine for about 10 seconds off the wall.

Ive never experienced bruising from handstand. Are you straining very hard when you hold one?

Master prerequisites first

1.Planche leans

2.Freestanding HS is advanced skill. If your form is good, then you must do lots of volume, from 10 to 30 min almost everyday.Try and try and do it more.First remove one then both legs from the wall, hold. Master that, and at the same time practice kick to hs from 10 to 20 attempts. Then get away from the wall as soon as possible. Practice Hs in open space. Dont rush the progress. Watch out the hands, if you rush, injuries will come. Start slowly.

3.For red dots under eyes, try to tuck your chin to the chest, dont look at the floor. That will remove some preasure.

Hope that helps

A few seconds after I get to handstand I start to feel blood rushing to my head and after half a minute to a minute I can feel my lips getting a bit swollen, then if I can really hold it for a long time on a good day, face feels like it's about to burst, lol.

Adults are more at risk to bust open capillaries during inversion work and holding your breath just makes it more likely.

It goes away in time. Learn to relax enough to breath but keep tension. Exhale like a tire with a hole in it.

As for the HS, it gets better in time but it just takes lots of numbers using that technique.

As for planche, get stronger.

For handstand, do you keep the neck area relaxed?

Lekman said:

Master prerequisites first

1.Planche leans

2.Freestanding HS is advanced skill. If your form is good, then you must do lots of volume, from 10 to 30 min almost everyday.Try and try and do it more.First remove one then both legs from the wall, hold. Master that, and at the same time practice kick to hs from 10 to 20 attempts. Then get away from the wall as soon as possible. Practice Hs in open space. Dont rush the progress. Watch out the hands, if you rush, injuries will come. Start slowly.

3.For red dots under eyes, try to tuck your chin to the chest, dont look at the floor. That will remove some preasure.

Hope that helps

10-20 attempts? What does "attempt" mean? I jump... feet off the ground... then smashing the ground with all my weight Does this count as an "attempt"? Or "attempt" is only if I manage to put my legs on the wall?

Would it make sense for me (a beginner to gymnastics) to train for planche and handstands daily? 2-3 sets of max frogstand hold which currently is 10s, 2-3x a day, then planche leans without or with elevated feet and also 2-3 times wallwalks and hold for 30-40+ sec. , then headstands which I think would improve me holding my legs high the air. I cannot kick myself into handstand yet but I can lift up my legs to a headstand slowly and lower them almost slowly (of course I use the wall as a spotter).

(Of course I am doing additional work pushups, pullups, bodylevers/flag, etc. cardio and I am trying to do 60-90 minutes at least some physical activity every day of the week. I must admit that I am not following any proper gymnastics workout and what I do is a bit chaotic. I have still to decide what program to follow and I hope to start it on Monday, because it is always good to start anew on Mondays.)

I cannot kick myself into handstand yet

Wall HS

Or Donkey kick to HS.

Or Downward Dog in yoga, elevate one late as vertical as possible (Elephant?). Hop just barely off the ground eventually working to switching the legs in the air (whether it's an inch off the ground or through HS).

Last time I did 4 sets of Handstand pushup against the wall (head touch the floor, so it's really HePU), 4-5 reps per each set, then finished with 1 minute handstand against the wall. After the wall the bottom part of the both palms hurt like someone is poking with a chisel, good thing is that the pain went away completely the next morning. Is this because my wrist is weak? Is there a way to reduce this pain besides just doing more handstand?

Is straight body hold like planche and FL really difficult for someone who's over 6 feet tall?

GB forum member 'Erik' who is well over 6' tall and has, among other things, achieved a front lever and a press handstand in addition to having also developed excellent flexibility had this to say about being tall and Gymnastic Strength Training™ when someone else asked the very same question;

“6' 6", 190lbs here. I could tell you that height is going to make it difficult, but ts00nami is completely right in saying it won't be hard because you're tall, it'll be hard because it's hard ... Totally worth the effort, though.â€

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Thanks coach!

I have another question on L-sit, every time I try to hold it as long as possible, it would end due to both of my thighs cramp, my arms can go a lot longer and so is my abs. Does this mean my legs are weak?

This just means to need to stretch and rub out the cramps in your legs, then do the l-sit again. I don't remeber what pge it says that in th book, but its in there, in the staddle l or l-it section

Seiya, your legs are not "weak" in a sense most would use but this is common with L-sit and L-hang for beginners. With straddle-L, you'll get this higher in your hip flexor and other weak areas in your hips (if you have any).

Bdk1786 said:

This is more a reflection of the new stresses on your palm. This will go away with more practice and exposure. Weak wrist will produce sore/painful wrists. If you are able to, try to do some wrist pushups on your knees and on an elevated surface if you are just starting this kind of training. If that is too much, just keep plugging away at the handstands.

Does handstand on parallets put less strain on wrists? If so I will get them.

So long as you keep your wrist straight, yes. If your wrist flexes it isn't as bad as floor but may be still be uncomfortable.

As a kid up to 11 I was flexible. I was able to put both of my legs behind my neck. With puberty everything changed. I am very inflexible in the waist. If I bend I cannot reach my toes, in fact I need to bend at least 1 foot but I cannot. Do you think that at my age (35) it is possible to improve my flexibility to touch my toes. This really is the only thing that stops me from doing a proper L-sit. I have been doing hanging leg raises for years but I cannot lift my legs above my waist line.

Is that fixable or that's it for life?

Zingham: It is fixable. It will require daily stretching, 15-30 minutes per day. Doesn't have to be 1 block, can be broken up however you want. 4 days a week is a minimum, but 7 is ideal. Don't push hard, just move to tightness and back, over and over and over. Your body has to become comfortable with moving into and out of the extreme end of your current ROM, not just hanging there forever. Over time this will cause the sarcomeres in your muscles to migrate into a more longitudinal pattern which physically lengthens the muscle. This is a long term effect, usually takes 6-10 weeks to see this really happen.

At first the relax into stretch method will help you achieve your true current ROM, which is probably a good bit beyond what you can do right now. Once you reach that, progress will come more slowly and in increments similar to what I describe above. They will be small, steady increases every 1.5 to 2.5 months. Be consistent and gains will come.

OP: Sounds like you're trying to do way, way too much HS work right now. You really need to phase into this slowly over the course of a few months. As you feel yourself getting stronger, you must remember to limit yourself to working at a 7 out of 10 on a perceived rating of exertion scale all but 1 day out of the week.

How much work you do isn't the primary factor in progress, how well you recover from the work you DO do is the primary factor.

Call it the "do do" rule for short

Work out, get carbs and protein together 6-8 times throughout the day, and don't work too hard. You will get stronger that way and with less effort.

For BL, FL, planche, HSPU, pullup and dip respectively, If I do the same exercise 5 sets a day, 3-5 reps a set, 4-5 days a week, how many days would it take for one to move up to the next level of difficulty mentioned in the book?

Why dis nobody mention the fact that you should use your fingers to balance in a handstand. As soon as you push yourself away from the wall, you should fall back to the wall. But that's when you contract your fingers and that prevents you from falling.

Seiyafan, entirely varies per individual to a bunch of factors. Don't worry about it and find out.

Rago, anybody who knows enough about HS training knows about using the fingers to grab and balance on the floor. It's just not everybody knows this.

Blairbob said:

It's just not everybody knows this.

ha, like me.

I tried it last night, pretty good.

Rago said:

Why dis nobody mention the fact that you should use your fingers to balance in a handstand. As soon as you push yourself away from the wall, you should fall back to the wall. But that's when you contract your fingers and that prevents you from falling.

Because all these all-knowing, advanced guys think this is so basic that everybody knows it intuitively. ...I guess. Do you have any idea how many times I have tipped over because I have had no idea that I could use my fingers for stability and balance?

slizzardman said:

Zingham: It is fixable. It will require daily stretching, 15-30 minutes per day. Doesn't have to be 1 block, can be broken up however you want. 4 days a week is a minimum, but 7 is ideal. Don't push hard, just move to tightness and back, over and over and over. Your body has to become comfortable with moving into and out of the extreme end of your current ROM, not just hanging there forever. Over time this will cause the sarcomeres in your muscles to migrate into a more longitudinal pattern which physically lengthens the muscle. This is a long term effect, usually takes 6-10 weeks to see this really happen.

At first the relax into stretch method will help you achieve your true current ROM, which is probably a good bit beyond what you can do right now. Once you reach that, progress will come more slowly and in increments similar to what I describe above. They will be small, steady increases every 1.5 to 2.5 months. Be consistent and gains will come.

OP: Sounds like you're trying to do way, way too much HS work right now. You really need to phase into this slowly over the course of a few months. As you feel yourself getting stronger, you must remember to limit yourself to working at a 7 out of 10 on a perceived rating of exertion scale all but 1 day out of the week.

How much work you do isn't the primary factor in progress, how well you recover from the work you DO do is the primary factor.

Call it the "do do" rule for short

Work out, get carbs and protein together 6-8 times throughout the day, and don't work too hard. You will get stronger that way and with less effort.

OK! Thanks! That's what I'll do: I'll add 15 minutes of daily stretching to my routine. That should be enough initially.

And you are probably right and I am overdoing it once again. And it is not my muscles that are the problem. My joints and tendons aren't probably ready for this new type of tension.

Up until reading this forum I was quite ignorant of the importance of letting the tendons get stronger. I've learned quite of lot of useful stuff here.

slizzardman said:

OP: Sounds like you're trying to do way, way too much HS work right now. You really need to phase into this slowly over the course of a few months. As you feel yourself getting stronger, you must remember to limit yourself to working at a 7 out of 10 on a perceived rating of exertion scale all but 1 day out of the week.

Call it the "do do" rule for short

Work out, get carbs and protein together 6-8 times throughout the day, and don't work too hard. You will get stronger that way and with less effort.

I don't understand that part well. :roll: And what is the "do do" rule?

I am afraid to eat 6-8 times a day I'll get pig-like fat again. :shock: I've managed to get a 4 pack for the first time in my life. I hope to get the 6 pack in 1-2-3 months. I have pretty good definition in my upper body part already but unfortunately most of my fat is located on my legs, where I have 0 definition. I guess I need to lose up to 10 pounds of fat to get down to 7% of BF. I am about 5' 10" and 67lbs now. I have been lifting weights since mid 2006 and it seems I haven't gained even a pound of muscles, although I have gained a lot of strength and endurance.

seiyafan said:

Blairbob said:

It's just not everybody knows this.

ha, like me.

I tried it last night, pretty good.

Good to hear that!

The do-do rule is this:

Your progress does not primarily depend on how much work you do, because then more work would always = more progress.

Your progress depends on how well you recover from the work you DO do. Full recovery from the work you actually do, and limiting your work to what you can fully recover from in time for the next workout, is where your progress comes from. Over the course of several years of correctly scaled training you will end up being able to benefit from a volume of work that would literally put you in the doctor's office today.