T-NATION has gone full blown gymnastics

[Dilraj Dhillon]

If the author is trying to pass this knowledge of as his own work that is just straight disrespect. The way the article is written is degrading to the valuable information found through hard work. Coach I thank you for still putting your work out there even when there are risks of things like this happening.

If you have time in your busy schedule you should maybe shoot them an email and ask them to properly give credit where credit is due.

[jpshepard]

Hi Guys,

When I created my site I got a lot of flak about copying movements from Coach Sommers. I didn't site my sources originally for certain reasons. Although I never had written articles that copied information. I find it hard to maintain IP on movements like L-sit progressions because some of the progressions can be logical steps in skill and strength as that is how they most likely developed (i.e. L-sit to V-Sit). With that said, I am grateful to Coach Sommers for his contribution to my training and I will always give him credit for bringing so much light to my understanding of the movements and programing. I mention his name at least once per training session with my group of guys. I also make sure to point to his book and website on my website. This begs the question coach, affiliates? have you reconsidered making your system and knowledge more controlled through affiliate-ship? or even certification? I hope to attend your may workshop!

Respectfully,

JP

[Coach Sommer]

This begs the question coach, affiliates? have you reconsidered making your system and knowledge more controlled through affiliate-ship? or even certification? I hope to attend your may workshop!

Respectfully,

JP

JP,

Great questions!

1) We are currently nearing completion on a new redesign for the GB website. Once this is released, there will be an affiliate program available.

2) Beginning with the GB May Seminar, in addition to the normal GB Certificate of Attendance (worth 25 ACE contact hours) there will also be a Level 1 GB Certification available for those who would like to pursue this. This will be quite tough to achieve as demonstrated physical proficiency will need to be shown for the Level 1 elements in addition to passing a written exam and video analysis.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[ToyStory]

T-Nation = The worst

Why?

It's actually quite simple. They use images of steroids loaded guys to push their supplements. I'm sick and tired of all this. Whenever I open a link to their stupid page I see steroid, slin and gh loaded guys.

They act like they are all experts on everything yet the authors there just tries to write articles and get paid even if it means that he will have to write nonsense.

I also heard from what I believe is a reliable source that even the guy Christian Thibaudeau whatever was on roids. Anybody who has some training experience can make the difference between natural and roid loaded body.

I'm so mad.

[jpshepard]

JP,

Great questions!

1) We are currently nearing completion on a new redesign for the GB website. Once this is released, there will be an affiliate program available.

2) Beginning with the GB May Seminar, in addition to the normal GB Certificate of Attendance (worth 25 ACE contact hours) there will also be a Level 1 GB Certification available for those who would like to pursue this. This will be quite tough to achieve as demonstrated physical proficiency will need to be shown for the Level 1 elements in addition to passing a written exam and video analysis.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Great! I hope to attend!

Respectfully,

JP

[Nic Scheelings]

I must admit reading the article was a little disconcerting, and I actually read the article before I saw the thread here. I think the intentions of the article were fine, just could have been done slightly better. That being said I don't have a problem with T-nation per say, they do generate interest in many different kinds of training topics.

I do also feel the lines can be grey with this sort of thing. Last year I ran a couple of sessions at my gym teaching people the basics of gymnastics movements like L-sits, muscleups, handstands, levers, ect..

Much of the info did come from gym bodies that I have used for my own training over the years, Should I feel like I have plagiarised Coach for passing on this info? I referenced GB throughout the sessions, and did not charge people to attend it was a free service I offered to gym members. Though I have since learnt If you want people to take something seriously you probably should charge them something, I once envisioned a gym of people able to muscle up, and HS but was sorely mistaken.

So If i learn something from Coach, or any coach really often i'm keen to pass that on, especially if i feel it is useful to me and my training. Often if i'm training with friends and they are having a problem with something that I know can be fixed with something I've learnt from coach I will of course tell them, this info is surely made to be passed on in this way. I don't reference coach everytime i open my mouth but I often steer peoiple to this site. In the end a lot of us here are learning things that will help us be better teachers, trainers and athletes but of course credit needs to be given where appropriate.

Sorry bit rambling

[newguy5000]

The internet has proven that people have a right to publish online their ideas, however poorly they are formed or lacking in quality they may be. Even if we discount arguments of their expertise they have a right to write an article on the topic if they choose to do so.

BUT, this is not the most important point. The point they and most people are missing here is that there are basic conventions in writing whether it be academic or journalistic or even blogging and that involve the processes of citing or referencing the source of material. These conventions have developed over a long period of time and reflect intellectual property laws as well as the 'spirit' of scholarship and reporting that you should credit people for their ideas. I have read Building the Gymnastic Body (BTGB) by Coach Sommers and i have read the article in question. It is clear that anyone with a passing familiarity with BTGB can see that many of the concepts, claims, progressions and in some cases literal sentences have been lifted from BTGB and Coach's original article on Dragondoor.

Now of course Coach Sommers does not 'own' the L Sit and the Front Lever, nor do i think he is trying to suggest or claim that. However, clearly in this case good form would have been to simply say here are some of my ideas and they are inspired from the work of Coach Sommers and here is a link to his book. Now if this was an author who developed his ideas independently and came up with something similar - well that happens throughout human history and there is nothing wrong with that. However, in this case we know the author has BTGB and is a fan of Coach's work. We can see the visible imprint of Coach's writings in his article that have not been referenced or cited. Given that the author has drawn his ideas so clearly and directly, sometimes literally from BTGB then citing and reference is required - not just as a case of 'good form', but also because the article closely borders on a legal violation of Coach Sommer's intellectual property.

A simple acknowledement in the article of the source material is all that would have been required and i think (though i can't speak for him) would probably have satisfied Coach.

As to some of the other arguments the authors have used to defend their work. If they want to write a poorly written article that is their right and if people want to follow it that is also their right. However, some of the arguments are not very coherent. Particularly the one where they argue its written for a strength and condition audience and not for gymnasts. Well who do you think Coach's book was written for? Certainly not for professional gymnasts, though some might benefit from Coach's writing. It says quite clearly in BTGB that the book is FOR the fitness enthusiast.

Also, do they imagine the physiological structure of the human body is different for 'the strength and conditioning crowd'? No, the human body is the human body and poor advice will lead to injury very quickly even on the seemingly 'simple' exercises of the L sit and front lever. A good progression for a gymnast should be no different for a good progression for strength and conditioning person - either they progress in a safe and progressive fashion that lets their connective tissues adjust as they gain strength, or they don't . Its the same human body.

I'm not one to jump on a bandwagon, i can see Coach's point and i can see the authors. However, i think it is pretty clear in this case that the authors should have done the very simple act of citing and acknowledging Coach's work as a matter of basic jouranlistic integrity, good form and adherence to respect for intellectual property ideals and laws. It would have only taken one sentence. In response to other posts on this board from people who have also used Coach's material to inform people. BTGB is information placed in the public domain by Coach Sommer. He obviously wants people to use it, talk about it and train from it and experience the joy of gymnastic training. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with spreading the love. Just reference and cite him if you use it as per standard norms of intellectual property.

Peace.

[Blairbob]

Didn't see this till it hit it's third page. That article seems a blend of the DD FL/PL article and a bit of the book except that it's just VERY short.

Seriously sad, why wouldn't you just point to BtGB...must be an ego thing

Simple Aush, $$.

There are quite a few articles from the no-name authors on Tnation that basically use other people's material.

Very interesting to hear about the new developments, Coach S.

[jpshepard]

The internet has proven that people have a right to publish online their ideas, however poorly they are formed or lacking in quality they may be. Even if we discount arguments of their expertise they have a right to write an article on the topic if they choose to do so.

BUT, this is not the most important point. The point they and most people are missing here is that there are basic conventions in writing whether it be academic or journalistic or even blogging and that involve the processes of citing or referencing the source of material. These conventions have developed over a long period of time and reflect intellectual property laws as well as the 'spirit' of scholarship and reporting that you should credit people for their ideas. I have read Building the Gymnastic Body (BTGB) by Coach Sommers and i have read the article in question. It is clear that anyone with a passing familiarity with BTGB can see that many of the concepts, claims, progressions and in some cases literal sentences have been lifted from BTGB and Coach's original article on Dragondoor.

Now of course Coach Sommers does not 'own' the L Sit and the Front Lever, nor do i think he is trying to suggest or claim that. However, clearly in this case good form would have been to simply say here are some of my ideas and they are inspired from the work of Coach Sommers and here is a link to his book. Now if this was an author who developed his ideas independently and came up with something similar - well that happens throughout human history and there is nothing wrong with that. However, in this case we know the author has BTGB and is a fan of Coach's work. We can see the visible imprint of Coach's writings in his article that have not been referenced or cited. Given that the author has drawn his ideas so clearly and directly, sometimes literally from BTGB then citing and reference is required - not just as a case of 'good form', but also because the article closely borders on a legal violation of Coach Sommer's intellectual property.

A simple acknowledement in the article of the source material is all that would have been required and i think (though i can't speak for him) would probably have satisfied Coach.

As to some of the other arguments the authors have used to defend their work. If they want to write a poorly written article that is their right and if people want to follow it that is also their right. However, some of the arguments are not very coherent. Particularly the one where they argue its written for a strength and condition audience and not for gymnasts. Well who do you think Coach's book was written for? Certainly not for professional gymnasts, though some might benefit from Coach's writing. It says quite clearly in BTGB that the book is FOR the fitness enthusiast.

Also, do they imagine the physiological structure of the human body is different for 'the strength and conditioning crowd'? No, the human body is the human body and poor advice will lead to injury very quickly even on the seemingly 'simple' exercises of the L sit and front lever. A good progression for a gymnast should be no different for a good progression for strength and conditioning person - either they progress in a safe and progressive fashion that lets their connective tissues adjust as they gain strength, or they don't . Its the same human body.

I'm not one to jump on a bandwagon, i can see Coach's point and i can see the authors. However, i think it is pretty clear in this case that the authors should have done the very simple act of citing and acknowledging Coach's work as a matter of basic jouranlistic integrity, good form and adherence to respect for intellectual property ideals and laws. It would have only taken one sentence. In response to other posts on this board from people who have also used Coach's material to inform people. BTGB is information placed in the public domain by Coach Sommer. He obviously wants people to use it, talk about it and train from it and experience the joy of gymnastic training. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with spreading the love. Just reference and cite him if you use it as per standard norms of intellectual property.

Peace.

Well stated and understood! I agree that in most cases in the fitness world information, theories, or even claims are not cited resourced or researched. I see a lot of people making claims to workout methods but show no research to back them up. periodical evidence is in my opinion good but not enough to substantiate claims for certain physiological (read diets, supplements) effects. And again, I completely agree with you.

Respectfully,

JP

[Karl Kallio]

Coach Sommer,

I'm sorry that someone who has more greed than ethics treated you and your program/project in a disrespectfull way. Please don't let them stop you, or influence the way you work.

The girls I coach love the influence Gymnastic Bodies has had on our work outs. For the first time ever they look forward to the conditioning part of training sessions, and even say that some parts are fun (handstands etc). A big part fo that is because the progressions are explained so well that we can adapt them to our capacity and equipment. When I show them the examples posted on youtube they are inspired and interested. I would never, ever, show them anything from T-nation. Even if I read that site from top to bottom I don't think that I would learn 1% of what I have learned from you and the people here, not to mention all the potentially harmfull things.

Thank you for teaching all of us so much.

Ps the photo is from the first week of this year's training, doing an adaptation on a pull up where we had no pull-up bar, and when they had never done pull-ups....We've managed to work out a deal to use the swingset in the playground now

[Blairbob]

Tnation is not a family oriented website but there is a plethora of articles and information on there that is very useful. Charles Poliquin, Dave Tate, Dan John, Paul Chek and various others.

I very much doubt the editors of Tnation would have known whether the authors "lifted" material from other sources.

[kman1]

Amazing audacity. The authors take progressions and quotes directly out of BtGB without giving due credit.

With all due respect coach, if you're going to publicly accuse somebody of plagiarism then it's probably a good idea to support that accusation with specific quotes or excerpts. Otherwise it's nothing more than pointing fingers with no proof. If this was just a one-off forum thread that's one thing, but you also sent out an e-mail to your list regarding this. Since you brought this to *my* attention, I want to hear more now ...

I assume that any one who has read both BtGB and the t-nation article is quite capable of pulling those quotes out on their own without me holding their hand.

Regarding the "audacity" of the authors' at T-Nation over whatever they did, I am personally taken aback that you would e-mail everyone on your e-mail list about a public accusation that you do not have proof about. Not only do you not have clear proof but you want me to go and research the matter when it has nothing to do with me. You wrote the book. If you honestly feel it's plagiarism then take action and resolve the problem. I find publicly accusing a reputable site such as T-Nation as you have quite amazingly audacious. :?

No offense though, just calling it as I see it. (though I do wish you wouldn't send so many e-mails though...)

[Coach Sommer]

(though I do wish you wouldn't send so many e-mails though...)

That is very easy to fix ... just ask to be taken off the email list.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Jon Douglas]

Reads like a joke after a skim of the GB site, let alone reading BtGB in full.

Still, if it points people towards this, from a non-monetary invested POV (ie. I'm not Coach and have no intellectual property stake in it) then it's not a bad thing per se. Had I that stake, I would be raising hell that a high-profile site like T-nation, not likely to fly under the radar, had ripped me off.

All support Coach, and I appreciate the emails as I do not have time to trawl forums daily to catch up on discussions.

[Aushion Chatman]

This begs the question coach, affiliates? have you reconsidered making your system and knowledge more controlled through affiliate-ship? or even certification? I hope to attend your may workshop!

Respectfully,

JP

JP,

Great questions!

1) We are currently nearing completion on a new redesign for the GB website. Once this is released, there will be an affiliate program available.

2) Beginning with the GB May Seminar, in addition to the normal GB Certificate of Attendance (worth 25 ACE contact hours) there will also be a Level 1 GB Certification available for those who would like to pursue this. This will be quite tough to achieve as demonstrated physical proficiency will need to be shown for the Level 1 elements in addition to passing a written exam and video analysis.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Everything else aside, THIS is the best news I've heard in 2012 (I know it's early in 2012...not trying to be facetious)

[DrAlexisOlson]

Coach, I see some close parallels, but I agree with kman1. If you are going to accuse them of plagiarism, then perhaps you could point out particular sentences you find to be particularly damning. I've tried comparing my copy of your book with the article, but while the content is similar I don't see any direct copying or even copying with slight rephrasing. The closest I'm seeing is how their note on progressions corresponds to your Steady State training cycles.

Honestly, creating basic progression for L-sits and front levers is hardly rocket science. Many people have done them since before you were born and others will continue to re-invent such progressions long after we are all dead. The T-Nation article didn't even present the same progression for the front lever as in BtGB.

Yes, they most likely read your book and are putting their own rather ridiculous muscle-head spin on some exercises you cover. It definitely would have been courteous of them to cite you, but they are correct in that you do not have intellectual property rights to things as basic as L-sits and front levers.

[ashman27]

I think that there are some obvious similarities especially with some of the wording, however, for some of these movements there is simply no other logical way to progress. I have not got BtGB but I did pay for the London seminar (before it was cancelled), so have worked out most of the progressions on myself, and also had to insert some of my own (such as lowering from inverted hang into front lever, single leg front lever, pulling into front lever, etc). Also, the gymnastics classes I attend here in the UK use many of the same progressions and exercises to build strength but use totally different names. For example, a full Planche is called a "top Planche", and iron cross is called a "crucifix" and so on. There are also many books on every subject, but a gymnastics strength book would always include some of the exercises and progressions in BtGB and on this site. Having said all this, if the authors of that article did take material directly from Coach then the least they should have done was to cite properly or redirect to this site.

[DrAlexisOlson]

Obviously T-Nation didn't present the material optimally. I don't really care what those guys do on their own website though.

I'm just trying to figure out where the accusations of plagiarism are coming from.

Has anyone else been able to find any quotes taken "directly out of BtGB" that Coach mentions?

I've gone through the T-Nation article pretty carefully a couple of times searching my PDF BtGB copy for keywords where I think the wording sounds like it could be Coach Sommer's. No matches yet. I think I will actually need some hand holding here, Coach.

Since I can't find any corresponding quotes, perhaps Coach Sommer imagines he somehow has rights to the L-sit progression since that was the other thing he specifically mentioned. (As I mentioned before, the front lever progression in the T-Nation article has different intermediate steps than in BtGB.)

Tuck L --> Low L --> L

I really don't think anyone can legitimately lay claim to such a basic sequence.

The authors of the T-Nation might very well have gleaned a good part of what they wrote from BtGB, but the ridiculous testosterone-infused wording seems to be their own and the actual content is more or less common knowledge for anyone with much gymnastics experience, in my opinion.

[kman1]

I don't really care what those guys do on their own website though.

I'm just trying to figure out where the accusations of plagiarism are coming from.

+1

Moreover, this entire episode makes me question the professionalism/integrity of Coach Sommers and his "patented" program or whatever. I won't go into that but the bottom line, IMHO, is why did he spam everyone about this baseless absurdity in the first place. This is clearly a private matter and should have been handled as such. If I were someone of importance around here this thread would have been closed a long time ago and infractions would have been issued. This is not the way to handle something like this and for the creator of the site to claim what he claims is unbelievable. T-Nation is a very well respected site and publicly doing what you are doing now is kind of like shooting your own self in the foot. They have a huge following and by continuing on like you are, you could be alienating them. Unprofessional and equally it's bad business.

Also, I notice how you remain reticent as other members slowly chime in disagreeing with your stance here. Earlier in this thread, I believe someone mentioned that the member Slizzardman is on arguing in support of your stance over at T-Nation and we see above other members here rallying in with your stance here in this thread. This is so childish. What have you personally done to address this problem? A simple e-mail or letter to the author of that article about your claim I'm sure would/could have solved this a long time ago.

Again, no offense but I am just really surprised about this whole "incident".

[Cole Dano]

Being privy to some private information i know of some serious incidents where Coach has remained silent. I think this is a case of the straw that broke the camels back.

True these are basic progressions and they aren't word for word lifting text from the book, but it's hard to not see the similarity with BtGB, particularly with Coach's stories of his athletes experience with weightlifting. Moreover, it's hard not to see that the authors are far from experts on the topic. Considering they just bought a copy of the book BtGB it's easy to see how Coach put two and two together.

Maybe their new found training inspired them to learn more and that's why they bought the book, or maybe they were just researching. I don't know, but a simple acknowledgment to someone would have been proper, they didn't make even these simple progressions up themselves that is for certain. True it's not rocket science, but everybody learns the basics somewhere. If it wasn't Coach, then give credit to whoever else.

I don't want to pretend to know where the line is drawn with regard to intellectual property rights. It's a grey area to me and have seen similar problems in various schools of yoga for example. Some want you to sign not only for the rights to their information, but even to exclude you from learning elsewhere.

Most good training material will be peppered with credited anecdotes, Pavel and Poliquin are great examples of this. They always are mentioning the people they've gotten ideas or techniques from.

I'm not speaking for Coach, but knowing some of the background i really understand why he did this however it may look to the outside.

As the above post points out, Coach is without doubt the person who has done the most to bring Gymnastic Strength Training™ to the public eye. In fact i'm sure that he is at odds with many of his colleges on this. He has told me on more than one occasion that gymnastics coaches refuse to deal with the enthusiasts. Thank you Coach Sommer for bringing these methods to the public light.

[Coach Sommer]

... Honestly, creating basic progression for L-sits and front levers is hardly rocket science. Many people have done them since before you were born and others will continue to re-invent such progressions long after we are all dead ...

In that case, perhaps I should consider not releasing further materials as it is all common knowledge anyway.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[John Dalton]

... Honestly, creating basic progression for L-sits and front levers is hardly rocket science. Many people have done them since before you were born and others will continue to re-invent such progressions long after we are all dead ...

In that case, perhaps I should consider not releasing further materials as it is all common knowledge anyway.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Well said, Coach!!!

[Cole Dano]

Countless people have found this to be the best source of training information on the web Coach. I can't tell you how much i've learned since becoming involved with the program.

Don't let the non-sense that's out there get to you. What is it they say in Hollywood, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?

[Scott Malin]

I am allowing this thread to remain open on the condition that both stances on this discussion calm their emotions and refrain from attacking Coach Sommer, T-Nation, or anyone else. We will continue this discussion with the original topic:

Hello My Friends,

Interesting discussion regarding a new Gymnastic Strength Training™ article

on t-nation.  Now I am all for the promotion of gymnastics strength

training.  However for the most part, the progressions are simply rewritten

materials directly out of BtGB.  Thoughts?  Comments?

You will note from the above quote that Coach did not send out a viscerally-charged email and invited room to both agree or disagree. He also did not make any statement in the email or his post against T-Nation, but rather that he felt the article authors had rewritten his work.

As I see it, some feel that the article was not direct enough copying from the BtGB book and Coach's previous T-Nation articles (Building an Olympic Body in particular). Others feel that it was close enough to constitute plagiarism. I have four examples to start this discussion anew. I will point out where there seem to be similarities, and ask both sides to consider whether this is pure coincidence or an attempt to summarize/water down the GB material to rebrand as the article author's own work. As I am acting in a moderator capacity, I will not bring in my opinions on the examples and try to include both viewpoints.

Example 1:

Building an Olympic Body

How strong is it possible to become with bodyweight exercises? Amazingly strong. In fact I would go so far as to say, done correctly, far stronger than someone who had trained for the same amount of time with free weights. Want some concrete examples? One of my former students, JJ Gregory (1993 Junior National Champion on the Still Rings) developed such a high degree of strength from my bodyweight conditioning program that on his first day in his high school weightlifting class he deadlifted 400lbs., and this at the scale breaking weight of 135 lbs. and a height of 5’3”.

T-Nation Article

The weightroom exploits of gymnasts are legendary. Consider 140-pound gymnasts who could crush 300-pound + bench presses and triple-bodyweight deadlifts without ever having touched a weight in practice before.

Did the authors remember the feat of strength without recalling its source, or is this taking information and spinning it for themselves?

Example 2:

Building the Gymnastic Body

L-sit – PB tuck

Center yourself on a set of parallel bars (PB), parallets or pushup bars. If your abdominal strength is very low, you may also begin on two chairs, as this will allow you to start with you feet much lower and make the exercise more accessible.

Tuck your legs and attempt to lift them until they are parallel with the floor. At first it may not be possible for you to lift your legs up to a completely parallel position. That is fine, simply work with your knees at the height that you are comfortable. Sit up straight and be sure to keep your elbows locked (straight).

T-Nation Article

Phase One: Tuck Hold

Support yourself between two benches with your arms straight, and torso in an upright position. Raise both legs (bent) to at least parallel, if not a little higher.

Same first progression choice, almost identical name, notice that the two sentences mirror the first sentence structure and language of each paragraph in the BtGB progression. Also note that the article author advertises himself as a Functional Movement Screening Specialist in his bio. WIth many of my clients, I found it necessary when they started training to regress this progression one or two levels further. Wouldn't a Functional Movement Screening Specialist be aware of how many people have weak abdominals and adjust accordingly (and how many amateur bodybuilders unknowingly target their iliopsoas and have weaker abs)? Or is it true that it is common knowledge that L-Sit progressions begin with the tuck? Is the parallel structure simply a summary of Sommer's work or that their isn't much fudge room in giving directions here?

Example 3:

Building the Gymnastic Body

L-sit – PB low

The primary difference on this variation is that the knees will now be straight. As the leverage is much less on this exercise and the difficulty is higher, you will probably find that you cannot hold your legs as high as you did in the tuck L and that you need to work on two chairs or elevated bars. In the beginning, it is perfectly acceptable for your feet to be far below horizontal.

Be prepared for some exceptional cramps in both your hip flexors and the rectus femoris (the muscle in the upper middle of your quadriceps). If the cramps become too intense, stop the exercise for some stretching and massage before again continuing the day’s workout.

T-Nation Article

Phase Two: Low L-Sit

Using the same setup, raise both legs (straight) to a level just below parallel. This will pull the quadriceps more into the mix, setting you up for the next variation.

Same name (again minus PB), same choice of second progression; and the two sentences in the article again mirror the first sentence in each BtGB paragraph. On one hand, straightening the legs can be a logical next-step progression. Coincidence or lilting material?

Example 4:

Building the Gymnastic Body

L-sit - PB

Once you can hold the Low Straight Leg L comfortably, it is time to progress to the Horizontal L. The difference between this and the prior version is simply that your legs are now high enough during the static hold to be parallel to the floor.

As you will now be holding your legs horizontal and parallel to the floor you will have enough height and clearance to, if you wish, work this exercise on the floor as well as on the bars. Work hard and persevere in the pursuit of excellence with this position. Achieving the horizontal L-sit for substantial time will be a major milestone in your athletic development.

T-Nation Article

Phase Three: Full L-Sit

The full L-sit is usually performed from the floor. The goal here is to keep both your legs off the ground, at or above hip height for 5-10 seconds. Once you've mastered the L-sit, make sure to congratulate yourself as this is no small task – you've officially earned the privilege to refer to your abs as a "Situation."

In particular, the last sentence of both writings seem markedly similar. Is this simply that the article authors know how much a proper L-Sit can burn or is it a hip spin on the BtGB writing. Note also that the this is also the third progression from the book. Again, is this simply a logical step in L-Sit progression to be considered common knowledge?

I chose the four examples above because I feel they can genuinely be debated either way as to whether these represent plagiarism. It is important to point out that the authors' notes on progression does directly come from Coach Sommer. To my knowledge, this does not appear anywhere else in print except his writings.

So long as emotions are held in check, I will allow continued debates over specific similarities or differences between the article and Coach Sommer's writings. As we are not in a court of law, there is not an absolute right or wrong, so please consider that when addressing someone with a different viewpoint on the matter.

[Julekman]

Coach Sommer deserve huge respect for all information and inspiration he give to all of us. I put my comment on t-nation, and this is at least i can do to support him. Thank you Coach !