How has gym strength training helped you in other sports?

[Nic Scheelings]

Please don't say weightlifting is for suckers, to me weightlifting is olympic lifting, really one of the best ways to physically condition. Combined with gymnastics = Gold

[RatioFitness]

I retired from football last year so gymnastics can be my main focus. I said the same thing in the 'introduce yourself' side of the forum. My gym plan was messy during my last football season. After quitting I overhauled my entire gym plan to favour gymnastics.

In my opinion gym (weight) training sucks ass. Gymnastics conditioning helped me much more than lifting bloody weights in the gym. Recently I believed my maximum benching limit is 50 kgs. After I bought myself a pair of rings from ringstraining.com I started doing push ups on them for two months. During those two months I haven't touched the bench bar at all, I nearly forgot about it. After those two months I went back on the bench bar again and I was fucking astonished! I benched 60 kgs!!!!! How did I do that?!?!

Also what gymnastics did for me is toughens my abs. Gymnastics taught me stuff like hollows/dish rocks, L Sits, hanging leg lifts, etc to help me get a six pack. In my opinion these are much more helpful than doing crappy sit-ups.

Gymnastics conditioning > weight lifting

Weight lifting is for suckers imo.

How can you say that weight training sucks when you never even got strong with it?

[Coach Sommer]

Please don't say weightlifting is for suckers, to me weightlifting is olympic lifting, really one of the best ways to physically condition. Combined with gymnastics = Gold

Out of hundreds, Demus is the first person attending a GB Seminar to be able to out jump my staff; and this includes the Recon Marine instructors who focus quite heavily on leg strength. Demus was also in the advanced ring strength group at the 2011 GB Melbourne Seminar and this despite a serious arm injury earlier in the year.

Demus, for those who are interested in combining GB & OL would you please share a weekly schedule that integrates the two disciplines?

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Sailor Venus]

How can you say that weight training sucks when you never even got strong with it?

Because it didn't help me as much compared to gymnastics conditioning. For example, shoulder presses. Before I registered on this forum I pressed less than 40 kgs. No matter how hard I tried or trying a different strategy I can't reach 40 kgs. After registering on this forum, reading stuff here and making some posts I started doing handstands against the wall and after a while I began handstand push ups. And recently I went back to shoulder pressing weights and lifting 40 kgs became piece a cake! If it wasn't for this forum I would never shoulder press past the 40 kgs limit. I reckon my body is better at pushing/pulling/lifting my own bodyweight than lifting external objects imo.

I'm beginning to dislike weight lifting more and more the longer I spent reading and practising anything gymnastics related. The only weight lifting I actually like are squats and clean & jerk. Ah the jerk, I love it! 55 kgs of metal above my head, I feel epic! To most people 55 kgs to you and most people is probably nothing.

Other weight lifting stuff, instead of doing push ups on the floor I lower a pair of rings to 2 inches off the floor and do push ups on that. Instead of doing chin/pull ups on a chin-up bar I do it on the rings - or should I say screw the lateral pull-down machine and do pull ups on the rings instead? lol! Instead of the pec-dec, do chest flyes on the rings. And so on.

[Nic Scheelings]

Coach,

By no stretch do I consider myself an expert on how to program the two of these into a schedule well. But I will share how I tend to do things and see if it helps anyone.

I'm cycling between a weightlifting focus and a gymnastics focus. For both sports I like to do them competitively albeit at a fairly recreational level so If I have a competition for one I generally train it 4 times per week and swap to a maintenance mode of 1-2 times per week of the other sport. I've recently had weightlifting comps and so trained weightlifting 4 times per week, with 1-2 gymnastics sessions (tho basics like HS are done almost every day). Later in the year I'll do some gymnastics competitions and so I will swap the ratio to gym 4 times weightlifting 2 X.

This is what I think makes most sense to me, both sports take a lot of you and I don't feel you can go all out at both and be successful, when I'm doing lots of weightlifting I focus more on gymnastics skills, tumbling, apparatus work and maintain my basic strength. When it's more gymnastics I try to improve my gym strength as well as my abilities and maintain my leg strength and power with some weightlifting.

What I would recommend to those who want to incorporate some weightlifting for their leg workouts but keep focus on gymnastics. 2 sessions per week if you can handle it. 1 day focus on Snatch 1 day focus on Clean & Jerk.

Exercise order

Day 1

Snatch

Front Squat

Snatch Pulls

Day 2

Power Snatch

Clean & Jerk

Clean Pull

Back Squat

Sets and reps are highly variable depending on percentages your using. I generally never go under 80% for any lift.

I hope this is somewhat useful to anyone out there, the best tho is really to find a good coach and I'm lucky in that I have both a good gymnastics facility to train at and a great weightlifting club that recently won the overall at the Aus club championships!

Here's a little clip showing my meager contribution to our clubs success snatch 100, C& J 115, we have many lifters who make me look very average.

Can't remember how to embed oh well. (mod edit: embedded)

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By the way my weightlifting coach saw me doing freestanding HSPU, he was like great this means i don't have to give you any presses in your program.

[Cole Dano]

Nice Demus - that snatch was a thing of beauty.

Just starting to learn the lifts in baby steps, but a two day a week program is what I've come up with as well. Thanks for sharing your programing.

[Matt Wichlinski]

I like what Demus is saying and I follow a similar philosophy. Currently my main focus is on weightlifting as I have a local meet coming up, but I only compete for fun as I am going to be 35 soon. There are lots of debates about which is better, and they turn into pretty heated arguments occasionally. But here is my take: you can't perform on a high level of either if you're spending too much time and energy on things that are not specific to your goals. That being said, a ring handstand is too different from a jerk to help a hell of a lot. Sure it will develop stability in the overhead position, but one movement is too different to affect the other much at that level. Just like the barbell jerk will not help the ring handstand much, beyond basic strength, in my opinion. If your objective is basic fitness & general athleticism, like mine, then finding a balance of both would be ideal, while favoring one more than the other for any time period or particular goal.

I, like Demus, keep things pretty simple and focus most on one major competition lift for the day, like the snatch or the clean & jerk, and two or three supplemental strength movements to support my lifting, like the squat, front squat, pressing variation and pulls. I used to incorporate barbell lifting for power, ring work for strength and stability and kettlebell training for endurance in the same sessions, but it wore me out pretty badly. Go figure. Its all an experiment for me. It was too hard for me to adapt to. So I now will get the majority of my upper body strength work in with rings mostly because I can train with less pain and feel more tension in my entire torso and arms then I do with exclusive barbell training. From personal experience, I feel the ring work provides me with greater flexibility and strength endurance and really helps my joints feel better than barbell training exclusively. I also have worked with a lot of athletes, from baseball, football, and wrestlers, and the body control they developed from the basic positions and movements was astounding. There was a major shift in their abilities when they stopped focusing on doing more reps, to doing better reps (that goes without saying), but it is hard to make younger ego driven athletes understand that the dozens of sloppy reps they did at home or at GYM X probably did more to hurt them then it did to help them. That is something that I found practicing basic gymnastics helped with a ton.

So, here is a sample of what my current training looks like while preparing for my upcoming weightlifting meet. I know this is not the absolute best way to go about it, but in my opinion, the best training program is one that is sustainable. It has to be specific enough to achieve the goal and be varied enough to stay fun if you want to continue doing it on a regular basis. Being balanced in all the major categories will help keep you healthy and training regularly.

Monday:

1. snatch - 80-90% x 8-10 singles

2. front squat - 5x3, work up to a heavy triple

3. snatch push press behind neck or HSPU - 4x4, or 4x max HSPU

4. snatch pulls - 110% of snatch x3x3

Tuesday:

- this day I usually cherry pick training from the GB WOD, but could look something like this:

1. muscle ups - 5x5

2. planche lean x15 sec + back lever x15 sec + 5 front pull negs x 3-5 sets

3. reverse leg lifts - 3x10

Wednesday:

1. clean & jerk - 80-90% x 6-8 singles

2. squat - 6-8x2

3. clean pulls - 110% of clean x 3x3

4. abs (superman plank, rollouts, leg lifts, etc...)

Thursday:

- similar to Tuesday's training

Saturday

- Max effort weightlifting

1. snatch - work up to heavy single

2. clean & jerk - work up to heavy single

3. front or back squat - work up to heavy single

4. any gymnastics if energy permits, like a few sets of backflips and HSPU, planche holds, levers, etc.

Obviously this plan will not work for everyone, but with a few adjustments to fit the individual it might be something that could work for many. Both styles of raining are very demanding, but I really believe since I have incorporated more gymnastic style training, my overall level of performance has increase and I certainly feel better between heavy lifting sessions. Hope this helps a little as far as how I incorporate the two disciplines. Keep in mind that there are days and periods of time that I incorporate the two in same sessions, but I haven't been doing it lately due to time, space and equipment because I do not have my own training facility like I did a few months ago. The following video is a sample of some of my recent weightlifting training, I'll put together some of my gymnastic training soon.

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[Cole Dano]

Nice Matt, eight posts and all gold.

I'm literally two weeks into adding Oly lifting to my programing. Before I'd been doing some kettle bell work.

The first thing I noticed is that Oly lifting really forces one to learn to be explosive. For my background this is excellent, because - Yogis can't jump! The colleges I have who have been adding acrobatic skill training all have that issue. I immediately saw improvement on the floor from doing just the most basic drills like Power Snatches from the hip. Ketttlebells just don't require you to move as fast, but for a total newcomer - they are a great way to get started, and to get used to handling some sort of weight.

If anyone is interested in this type of training look at Glenn Pendlay's forum which is sort of the Gymnastic Bodies of Weightlifting. Also look at the instructional videos he has posted on the Cal Strength site.

Finally I highly recommend picking up 'Power Trip' by Coach Dan McCauley.

My own much more modest programing is

Mon - Clean work / Front Squat / Back Squat 3-5 reps/set / ramping the weight up 5kg -10kg at a time to a final 5rm set

Thu- Snatch work / SLS / GHR

Tue - Fri - GB: Push / Pull

Wed - GB: HS

Mon-Fri - GB FSP work

[Nic Scheelings]

Cole, thanks for the kind words. Proud of the snatch just need to work on my cleans they suck. Really should be ably to clean 135.

Personally I wouldn't front squat and back squat on the same day I'd split them up. But that is my opinion if someone else has told you differently see how it works for you.

Cal strength have some nice stuff. definitely worth a look, tho everyone tends to teach a little differently. I actually used a great DVD when i first started to learn called Explosive lifting for Sports that i happened to stumble across.

here's a link to the website. not much info on here i don't think but if your interested in the book and or DVD.

http://www.humankinetics.com/hksearch?p ... for+sports

[Cole Dano]

That also looks like a good resource, certainly a little more professionally finished than most of the products I've seen out there. Coach McCauley makes up for it with enthusiasm. I just added it to my wish list.

Nice catch on the FS/BS on the same day. It's just one of those things I stumbled on that works for me at the moment. It is a bit unusual. Being a relative newcomer to working with weights, it took me a while to find my squat form, I tend to lean way too forward, so doing front squats gets me upright, and that carries over to my back squat work.

Once my back squat gets a bit stronger, I imagine I'll move to the more traditional format.

[Matt Wichlinski]

getting those ankles more flexible and opening those hips will help keep a more vertical torso in the squat. This is a video that really helps open my hips, by using double band distraction to pull my femurs out of my hip socket to make room to move around.

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[Cole Dano]

Thanks Matt, thankfully that's not my issue, though it is a real common one.

Part of my problem is just being self taught and starting with Starting Strength. That low bar movement never really felt natural to me, now that I'm finding the Oly style of squat it is much much more natural. It just took a while to find the groove, next it's actually getting strong - that is my issue!

[Joshua Naterman]

getting those ankles more flexible and opening those hips will help keep a more vertical torso in the squat. This is a video that really helps open my hips, by using double band distraction to pull my femurs out of my hip socket to make room to move around.

Nice! That's the first time I have seen mcmurray-type distraction used intelligently in the real world! Great idea! Love the warning about the junk, a very key observation right there!

[igalk474]

helped me with martial arts

(...) in Karate classes I was able to keep up with the best of them despite usually having done a WOD in the morning and often having done some floreio or handbalancing before class.

How so?

Would you care to elaborate a little bit igalk474 & ed, please?

first of all it helped with strength, and punches, chops...

but also with focus, speed & reaction time, keeping the mind clear, awarness and proprioception,coordination,balance

also with acrobatic skills and dodging, and flexibility

also with wrestling and similiar stuff, it helps you because you develop strength in places that usually for most people is a very weak spot, and use isometrics with wall for example to train 360 degrees every muscle in the body,

or for example the muscles that are working in a victorian, and all other straight arm exercises,

and the small muscles that connects the large muscles are stronger, the ability to contract the muscles harder and use more of it's potential, and tougher joints and elbows from crosses,

so this unexpected strength, can help you escape some holds, because you can apply a lot of strength in unexpected angles, that most people won't with regular training, if you can react fast enough

when you combine this type of strength with techniques like iron shirt and iron palm,

this can be very dangerous, and surprising, and can really give you an edge over other competitors

anyway, gymnastics helps overall fitness and improve your abilities on any sport that you do

[dennisceb]

Generally feel fit, but most benefit for sports comes from endurance training for me, like running.

[Chris Edgar]

Since I started following the WODs religiously I have noticed my body seems to work alot better as a unified unit.

The most noticeable difference I have observed is how much all the integrated core work helps with balance... and how much carry over that has in all athletic endeavours.

I regularly enjoy slacklining, skateboarding, wakeboarding and pretty much all board sports; being able to manipulate your entire body with ease has a surprising carryover to these sports, in fact most sports in general. Even playing football (soccer) in the park the other day, I noticed my ability to muscle the ball off other players has also increased quite drastically. I think it's safe to assume this effect is not a direct result of individual muscle groups getting stronger, but rather the ability to use your whole body as one functional entity, due to the incredibly demanding core work in almost every workout.

As it is commonly known, you are only as strong as your weakest link, and the WODs improves your entire body as a whole. If you have a weak link it will rapidly become your limiting factor in the WODs and it has to be addressed before you can continue progressing . This is a fantastic trait that i have not found in any other program and one that is definitely not to be under estimated. In my experience you will find everything just seems alot easier and you will seem to take to other disciplines far more naturally.

I hope that is what you wanted to hear!

[newguy5000]

Certainly my Core strength is greatly improved just from the Hollow Hold alone.

In terms of its applicability to other sports these are my personal observations:

Basketball

I have noticed my increased core / lower back strength makes me harder to push me out of position in the paint as well as when i am driving in the air and i get bumped i can maintain control and balance in the air much better. SLS have given my higher vertical leap from odd positions. I noticed back squats increased my two foot vertical enormously when i did starting strength but SLS have given me more gains on one leg and from jumping from odd positions on one leg.

Any other physical activity

This last one might sound strange but i have found the body awareness you gain from understanding hip position, i.e arch, neutral, hollow has carried over into just about every other physical activity i have done. This is probably the most that i have gained so far from gymnastics. It has also helped me correct my bad form with weight lifting where i was unknowingly using incorrect form. For example in the military press i always got a sore lower back when i the weights got heavy enough. Then like an idiot i realised after doing gymnastics it was my hip position that was arching and putting the strain right into my lower back.

Similar thing with the scapular, from gymnastics i have paid more attention how the scap is supposed to move in whatever the activity might be.

I am still amazed how subtle and how big a difference form makes.

[Justin Rawley]

I do both Olympic weightlifting and gymnastics training, and while I'm trying to integrate the two disciplines, I'm constantly being told that they are interfering with one another. People seem to think that I'm overtraining by trying to do both and that they are somehow incompatible. I train Olympic lifting currently only three times a week (hoping soon to increase to four). Two of those sessions usually incorporate some gymnastics work on the rings such as levers and Bulgarian dips, and then I have a gymnastics only session once a week that includes various ring work, usually along with high bar and/or p-bar exercises. I'll try to post some video soon to show progress.

[riot]

Great video, Matt. I'll have to try those bands on my hips at the gym tonight.

Anyway, I did gymnastics when I was younger and picked up aerial work (corde lisse, silks, lyra) a few years ago and the training is similar. I noticed a huge difference in my endurance running since getting back into gym. I've been able to run faster and longer than ever and I think my swimming form and speed has improved as well, but I haven't actually done a time trial with that yet.

I do know that as a personal trainer (at SCAD), I run circles around even my most fit students that are typically 5-8 years younger than myself. I give 100% of that credit to gym/aerial training.

[Philip Chubb]

I do both Olympic weightlifting and gymnastics training, and while I'm trying to integrate the two disciplines, I'm constantly being told that they are interfering with one another. People seem to think that I'm overtraining by trying to do both and that they are somehow incompatible.

People will think you're overtraining if you walk up the stairs too many times a day it seems.

I do the same I feel like neither has a huge amount of carryover to each other, but that both carry over to just about everything else. Most people regard me as a freak it seems.

[Joshua Naterman]

Great video, Matt. I'll have to try those bands on my hips at the gym tonight.

Anyway, I did gymnastics when I was younger and picked up aerial work (corde lisse, silks, lyra) a few years ago and the training is similar. I noticed a huge difference in my endurance running since getting back into gym. I've been able to run faster and longer than ever and I think my swimming form and speed has improved as well, but I haven't actually done a time trial with that yet.

I do know that as a personal trainer (at SCAD), I run circles around even my most fit students that are typically 5-8 years younger than myself. I give 100% of that credit to gym/aerial training.

Woohoo, more Georgians!

Do you teach at SCAD as well as being a personal trainer?

[Joshua Naterman]

I do both Olympic weightlifting and gymnastics training, and while I'm trying to integrate the two disciplines, I'm constantly being told that they are interfering with one another. People seem to think that I'm overtraining by trying to do both and that they are somehow incompatible. I train Olympic lifting currently only three times a week (hoping soon to increase to four). Two of those sessions usually incorporate some gymnastics work on the rings such as levers and Bulgarian dips, and then I have a gymnastics only session once a week that includes various ring work, usually along with high bar and/or p-bar exercises. I'll try to post some video soon to show progress.

What silly people. Great to hear you are still training! It has been a long time since I have seen one of your posts!

[Nic Branson]

Train what you enjoy. If they had a clue then they wouldn't make such comments.

[Desiree Walker]

getting those ankles more flexible and opening those hips will help keep a more vertical torso in the squat. This is a video that really helps open my hips, by using double band distraction to pull my femurs out of my hip socket to make room to move around.

]

This is great Matt! - definitely going to start using it for my hips - ---this is going to help my ballet and O-lifting for sure -

[riot]

Hi, Joshua! I teach fitness classes at SCAD as well as personal training.