Confusion on static... before or after?

I'm still trying to figure this all out. first I read a list of basic static exercises for beginners that should be part of the "warm up". then I see in another post a line "static ALWAYS AFTER basic strength". which is it? this is so annoying! why wasn't this book more clear?

I prefer doing FSP before FBE. I also prefer the same when training athletes.

Sir,

I am trying to figure out a routine for myself, but will be in much more depth... and I'm going to continue reading book in conj. with these boards.

However, I also want to start using BTGB with my students. I am a Karate Instructor/studio owner. I want to incorporate this type of training with my advanced students (kids). some of my adv. kids are already incorporating flips, tumbling, etc into their Kata routines...

whats a simple way to start incorporating into their training sessions? and how to progress, in group classes? don't have to get too advanced... I just want to incorporate warm ups and conditioning like you would see in a typical youth gymnastics program. and take their training to the next level. Thanks!

I will worry about more in depth training for myself later...

How much time do you have on your hands? This is how I start to determine how much I have to program what as you start off with x amount of minutes and how many minutes you are going to spend in your WU, basics, and in gymnastics (event work) and any extra strength or flexibility work or free time (for recreational classes).

When I trained, classes were 90-120m long but many classes I see nowadays are 45-55 minutes long. I can't remember how long our children's classes were but I think they were 60-90m in those days, very similar to the adult classes.

For the kids, I would use the plank series and L-sits. We never would have had the equipment to work the hanging levers but we did work lots of L-sits on concrete blocks or hands or fingertips. Luckily we had a rope to work pullups or rope climbs.

For my gymnasts I like working the plank and L-sit stuff after warmups besides handstands and then towards the end of their day include FBE work. During the karate training I did in HS, we did all of our S&C in the first half of the class, working on skills in the last half (though I think kihon basics were in the WU).

Blairbob said:

For my gymnasts I like working the plank and L-sit stuff after warmups besides handstands and then towards the end of their day include FBE work. During the karate training I did in HS, we did all of our S&C in the first half of the class, working on skills in the last half (though I think kihon basics were in the WU).

So in an hour long class, maybe I could do a warm up consisting of...

15 min.

1.Joint Rotations, (maybe a little wrist, shoulder, & squat stuff I've seen around here?)

2. Basic FSP warm up (planks, arch/hollow holds, support/hangs) (I do have a couple sets of parallettes & chin up bar, and rings)

30 min.

Karate Curric. (sparring or forms, basics, etc)

15-20 min.

1.conditioning: some type of FBE's? and/or reg. FSP's? (i.e. L-sit, planche prog., etc)

2. flexibility/stretching

Would this make sense? if so, how could I start as far as times/reps? while keeping it simple... and what kind of progression schedule without adding more length to the timeframe? (overall goal of being decent strength, having ability to do any basic BW exercises easily, and some cool stuff like HS presses, L-sits, planche?) I just want to have young Martial Artists who are strong like some of their peers who may take gymnastics.

You see, I had a boy who was a competitive gymnast start my program, at white belt... and was putting even some of my young BB's to shame when it came to doing push ups, & basic exercises, and even flexibility.

So what I have here, would this sequence of stuff make sense or should it be different? any help is appreciated, thanks!

HS and HS presses would be something I would do before your Karate skill work after plank series and FSPs. Really, it can be added whatever or whenever.

You might be able to do some of your basics in your WU. We do something very similar for gymnastics. Rolls, cartwheels, etc. For you it might be Safety rolls, kicks, punches, blocks, etc.

For S&C, you'll probably fine circuits are your most efficient especially with limited equipment. Abbreviated GB WODs perhaps. You are just not going to have a lot of time for long rest periods and I don't think that really is the focus. Allow rest as needed but try to keep them active. Besides they are kids or adults and they'll appreciate the exertion versus sitting for 2 minutes. Can't lose 6 minutes that way. You'll have to scale back from maximal strength but it is what it is.

For a 1hr rec class in gymnastics, we would probably aim to have no longer than a 10m WU. A lot of this is to keep the class exciting enough to foster retention and get enough skill time.

First of all, does your students participating in some kind of competition, and on what rules ? kyokushin, or WKF, etc, or you just practice basic traditional karate school. Karate is a skill, you dont want to do FSP and after that karate. Yes you can do some light FSP as planks, hollow and arch holds, but also prehab work as a warm up before kata training, but it is not necessary at all with kata, because kata incorporate static and dynamic movement. It is much better to warm up your students with easy kata work if a kata is priority on that day, and if you wish do some FSP at the end of training as a supplement. Separate Full strength training at the other time in the day, or do some of at the end of your training. Excessive FSP work before sparring work is not my choice and it is counterproductive, but like I said you can do them at the end. The sport rules determine what kind of strength and conditioning your students need first of all. If we talk about fighting, Kyokushin karate need more max strength and endurance compare to WKF sport karate, but WKF karate need more speed, reactive strength, agility, etc. Give us more information what you do.

I was presuming that it was general run of the mill karate here in the states. Kind of like non denominational Chrisianity.

As for myself, I trained in Naha-te, a branch off Uechi ryu. We did quite a bit of L-sit work in our basics and conditioning time but never worked planche or the levers really. I did learn a frogstand to handstand, though.

If they are in the time format of many schools in America, you get your 1 hour in and go home so it's not like they are going to be coming back in 4 or 8 hours unless of course they do more training at home.

Lekman said:

First of all, does your students participating in some kind of competition, and on what rules ? kyokushin, or WKF, etc, or you just practice basic traditional karate school. Karate is a skill, you dont want to do FSP and after that karate. Yes you can do some light FSP as planks, hollow and arch holds, but also prehab work as a warm up before kata training, but it is not necessary at all with kata, because kata incorporate static and dynamic movement. It is much better to warm up your students with easy kata work if a kata is priority on that day, and if you wish do some FSP at the end of training as a supplement. Separate Full strength training at the other time in the day, or do some of at the end of your training. Excessive FSP work before sparring work is not my choice and it is counterproductive, but like I said you can do them at the end. The sport rules determine what kind of strength and conditioning your students need first of all. If we talk about fighting, Kyokushin karate need more max strength and endurance compare to WKF sport karate, but WKF karate need more speed, reactive strength, agility, etc. Give us more information what you do.

First, I want to thank you guys for your help.

I am looking to add this type of training for a special Elite program that I have. not the regular classes... just not enough time for the basic classes. they have enough to keep them busy with basics.

but for my Adv/Elite training class, they do what is called XMA (extreme martial arts). XMA is like the "X Games" version of Martial Arts... it combines MA with gymnastics and acrobatic twists. here's an example of one of the top teens on the NASKA circuit performing in "extreme forms" division. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8dJPCO_pAk&NR=1

I want to incorporate some overall Gymnastic Strength Training™ since they are doing more & more acrobatic moves. aslo note that it is required to perform on a NON spring floor.

I do have a little more time to work with for this Elite program than the regular classes that are only 45 min.

These Adv/Elite kids have a 2 hour class on weekends and a couple 1 hour classes during the week.

I am looking for help to figure out a class outline to combine the skillwork with the strength training, etc. (in the proper order) thanks for all your help!