Starting Routine Feedback + General Questions

Hi everyone,

this is my first time posting on the forum, though I have spent quite a substantial amount of time browsing and reading through many great threads. I am very impressed by the effort that is being made on this forum in order to thoroughly answer people’s questions and by the huge number of high quality posts. I will be busy reading for quite some time.

After studying Coach Sommer’s book I started the basic strength training about a month and a half ago and I’d like to take this opportunity to get some feedback on the programming I am using and some modifications I am considering. I would like to apologize at this point for the somewhat lengthy post, but I hope that whatever feedback I get will not only benefit me, but also others with similar questions.

Some background about myself: I am 26 years old, about 5’10â€, 165 lbs. I used to workout with weights (mostly free weights) in the gym pretty consistently up until about 3 years ago. Since then my training has almost purely been based on bodyweight exercises without any particular program or goal other than staying generally fit. So I would do pull ups, push ups, and squats or lunges more or less whenever I felt like it.

During that time I took up Taekwondo as a new sport, which was quite a challenge coming from soccer. Therefore, most of my energy and focus went into TKD and flexibility work instead of strength training. I managed to more or less maintain most of my strength, but now I want to stop moving in place and start progressing towards a long term goal.

The program that I put together looked quite similar to the original Killroy70 routine.

The basic layout in terms of exercises is as follows (brackets indicate the stage I’m currently at):

Warmup ~ 15 min

5 min easy bouncing in fighting stance with stance switches and other footwork drills

Joint rotations and easy dynamic stretching

Wrist and shoulder prehabilitation

Main Workout (M-W-F)

Monday:

A1: FSP Planche (Tuck planche)

A2: FBE Vertical Pushing (HeSPU negatives)

B1: FSP Back Lever (Flat tuck back lever)

B2: FBE Vertical Pulling (Wide grip pull ups)

C1: FSP Front Lever (Flat tuck front lever)

C2: FBE Squat (SL deck squat)

D1: FSP L-Sit (L-Sit on rings)

D2: FBE Core (HLL V to L negatives)

Wednesday:

A1: FSP Planche (Tuck planche)

A2: FBE Horizontal Pushing (Tuck planche push ups on rings)

B1: FSP Back Lever (Flat tuck back lever)

B2: FBE Horizontal Pulling (Tuck front lever rows on rings)

C1: FSP Front Lever (Flat tuck front lever)

C2: FBE Hamstrings (Natural leg curls with hand support)

D1: FSP L-Sit (L-Sit on rings)

D2: FBE Lower Back (RLL Headstand)

Friday:

A1: FSP Planche (Tuck planche)

A2: FBE Dips (Ring dips)

B1: FSP Back Lever (Flat tuck back lever)

B2: FBE Inverted Pulling (Inverted pull ups)

C1: FSP Front Lever (Flat tuck front lever)

C2: FBE Lunge (Intermediate shrimp to jump (for height) The Shrimp:

D1: FSP L-Sit (L-Sit on rings)

D2: FBE Obliques (HLL Circles)

Cooldown ~ 30 min

Wall extensions

Upper body stretches

Hip extensions / circles

Dynamic stretches for kicking (front, side, and back)

Horse stance + deep side lunges (toes pointed up)

3 x side split (monday relaxed; wednesday light PNF; friday strong PNF)

Deep front lunges

3 x front split (monday relaxed; wednesday light PNF; friday strong PNF)

The reason for going with three workouts on M-W-F (instead of M-T-Th-F) is that I want to be able to go to train Taekwondo on tuesdays and thursdays and I don’t have it in me to train hard twice a day. Also, I want to have the weekend off. I usually do some form of exercise on saturdays, but it always depends how I feel and what I feel like. When I feel tired I might do some easy kicking workout focusing on technique, or if I feel more energetic, I might do some interval running or hill sprints. That sort of thing. Three days I thought would still let me work all planes of movement once a week.

Regarding the WOD, I have considered doing those and hope to get into that in the future. However, as of now I have limited equipment and space that I can work with. I would have needed to change many of the WOD that I looked at and I am unsure that I could have come up with anything useful. So I have put them off for now.

Number of reps / sets, rest times

I initially started doing all exercises individually. That is, I did my 60 seconds of tuck planche (10 x 6 sec) before moving on to that day’s pushing variation which I did for 3 sets of 5. In terms of rest I set my timer to 1 min intervals for the FSP and to 4 min for the FBE, starting a new set at the beginning of each interval.

Not surprisingly the whole workout took ages. Around 40 min of FSP plus 48 min FBE.

In an attempt to save time I started doing non-competing supersets that combined A1 with B1 and A2 with B2. So I would finish the first two FPS as supersets before moving on to supersets of the two corresponding FBE. I kept the same 1 and 4 min intervals, which cut the time of the main workout in half. I found that working supersets did not compromise the quality with which I could perform the individual exercises. This is the way I have been working out for the most part of the last 5 weeks.

Yesterday and today I spent a lot of time browsing the forum and found that the often referred to Killroy70 routine was quite similar to mine in terms of exercise selection and order (with one extra workout per week), but that Killroy combined the FSP and FBE into a giant set working A1 - A2 - B1 - B2. For today’s workout I emulated Killroy and did 5 giant sets for the first four exercises (A and B) and another 5 giant sets for the last four (C and D). I set my timer to 45 sec A1, 90 sec A2, 45 sec B1, 90 sec B2, rinse and repeat. That way I would have around 30 - 60 sec rest between exercises and 4 1/2 min recovery between two sets of the same exercise.

Questions:

A. Am I losing out, because I am not doing any multi-plane movements and combined pull/press?

B. Should I stick with 3 sets of 5 for the FBE and 60 sec total for the FSP (at 50% of max per rep), or could I do 5 giant sets taking care of both? Would I need to go to an easier variation for the FSP that will let me reach 60 sec in the 5 sets?

C. Should I finish the FSP before moving to the corresponding FBE as in my original program, or is it better to combine them like in the giant sets, i.e. do one set of FSP then one of FBE and repeat?

D. How long should I rest between two sets of the same FBE and two reps of the same FSP?

E. Is 3 sets of 5 reps enough volume for the FBE, or should I increase to 5 x 5?

F. Should I train to failure or avoid it like the plague?

G. I have started to add deadlifts after finishing blocks A and B and before starting blocks C and D. The reason is that I want to put a bit more emphasis on the lower body, especially on my hamstrings. I figured that it’s best to do the deadlifts before tiring my core in order to protect my spine. Also I thought I’d do a daily undulating sort of setup for the deadlifts, doing strength endurance on mondays (ladders), hypertrophy on wednesdays (3 x 12), and power on fridays 5 x 5). Does that make any sense?

H. I stumbled upon the preFSP as a warm up in the “Getting Started Correctly†thread. They are 60s each of plank, reverse plank, hollow hold, arch hold, PB support, and chin up grip dead hang. I tried doing them today and could reach 60s in any but the Hollow Hold. But overall I was quite exhausted afterwards and felt like this was a workout in itself.

Does it make sense to add these to my warmup routine even though I am able to complete the 60s? I read somewhere on the forum, I believe in a post by Ido Portal, that due to the limited recovery abilities of your body you shouldn’t waste your time doing things you already mastered and do more advanced exercises instead. Is there any sense in doing them just as a warmup? Maybe not the full 60s but 30s, so it doesn’t exhaust you so much?

I. I would really like to work on my handstand, but I am unsure how best to incorporate that into my present routine. At the end of the workout I am usually too tired and fail miserably at trying to hold a freestanding handstand. Could I include at the end of my warmup, and if so, how much is reasonable?

J. I was also wondering if someone could enlighten me as to the reason why the back lever should be paired with the pull FBE. It seems to me that the front lever is much more similar to bent arm pulling than the back lever. Especially since one can eventually do a front lever row. Isn’t the front lever to the row what the planche is to the push up? (GRE anyone :wink: ) Anyways, just something I found hard to understand, but then again, my experience with these movements is very limited.

That is it for now. Too many questions. I apologize again for the obscene length of my post. I’m not expecting the answers to all of my questions. I know that it is 42. But it would be very nice to hear some thoughts on some of them.

Thanks in advance and greetings from Germany,

Niko

Whew.

I know what you mean about it taking 90m to do FSPs and FBEs. Sliz would say you should never be doing sets of less than 15s for the FSPs but I've done 5 or 10s. However if you are doing 6s holds, it will take you bloody forever. Shorter holds with lots of sets will also tax you more. Keep that in mind. Luckily I only had to do this for straight BL and not the other FSPs.

If you are only using short holds for the beginning planche and lever progressions you may not be ready for them in truth. You could work them but you might eventually stagnate. Time will tell.

For my boys, I simply had them do the FSPs as a circuit. It's not pure strength, but it works pretty well as you get one long rest after each 3 (PL, FL, BL). I would do A-C as a circuit but keeping the DL and core work seperate. I often used L and straddle-L work after everything for myself but played with both for my lil guys (eventually we just did it after the WU).

You could do the FSP and FBE as a giant circuit.

It's not the end of the world that you're not doing any multiplane pulling or pushing or combined push pulling. They are great, but unless your strength is decent, that day can be omitted. If you can't do a long hang pullover or chest roll to HS, don't worry about. There is something to be said about doing Muscle-Up rows as skill work.

State what your pull and push strength is and I think we could better judge if MPPu or CPP is worth your while right now.

Avoid training to failure, especially when training frequently. SteadyStateCycles are supposed to be done using work sets@50% because the focus really is the connective tissue. There may be something to be said about training at higher percentages but it's still debateable. I'd probably do FBE's with higher percentages but I do find that if you are training FSPs+FBE, 3x5@50% for FBEs can be satisfactory. A neat way to get in some more volume for either is to warmup sets of easier progression.

As for the prerequisite FSP and doing 60s holds and IdoPortal's position. I and other who can do them often just do 1x60s as a maintenance set. We can do 3x60s or should be able (not sure if I can currently but we'll talk of me as in earlier this year). So the 1x60s is just a warmup as much as it is a strength in some cases (pronated and supinated hang for instance).

What else are you going to pair BackLever with? It's a weird push/pull exercise unlike Front Lever or Support which is more clear.

I would incorporate some HS work either on off days or different times of the day. If you can't manage that another option is to do some HS work after the WU but before you get onto your FSPs+FBEs.

Thanks a lot for the quick reply!

I will take some time and experiment with the different setups in my next few workouts and then decide which one I like the most. Tried a few muscle up rows the other day and I think I will include them in my workouts somewhere in order to get used to the transition and false grip. I could hold my full bodyweight in false grip for while, but it didn't feel very good, so guess it makes sense to slowly work up to it.

The preFSP are now part of my warm up and I think I can get used to it. Should german hang also be included?

I'm not sure how to measure my push and pull strength. I have no access to a weight room for bench press or weighted pull ups. Is there some other way?

Cheers,

Niko

Get a backpack.

Find some heavy stuff in your house, weigh it/them, put them in the backpack (or if too big just tie it to yourself) until you're at a weight where you can just manage 1 pullup.

Repeat for dips and/or pushup (note that with huge variations in pushup styles it might be deceiving)

Example heavy stuff (depending on strength as to what could be useful);

Bottles of water

Bricks

Dog (friend of mine does pushups with his German Shepherd sitting on his back. Massively entertaining, combines dog training with his exercise, adds ~45kg)

Scrap metal

Lawnmower (normal push mower - stand between the mower and the handle. Grab your pullup bar and tuck your legs to lift up the mower. Pullup time!)

Car wheel (takes all of 3 mins to jack the car and remove a wheel. Nice bit of weight, bounces if you drop it / harness breaks)

Children (be careful where you get them from. Some bite)

Sand bags

Rocks

Roof tiles

Paving slaps

Tins of paint

... etc ...

Gyms are a waste of time and money.

Aspirador, while you could try testing a bench press or weighted pullup; normal or wide arm pullups will suffice as will regular dips or ring dips or russian dips, etc.