Programming the Prerequisites

Hello everyone!

I've read all the threads that I could find so far on pre-requisites, so the only thing I need is for someone to tell me if I'm wrong/right with what I got from them:

-I should attain a 3x30 of L-sits on the floor and a 3x60 Arch hold position BEFORE starting any Planche work. Once this occurs, do I completely take out the L-sits, and start working with Pl and Straddle-L stuff. Or do I keep a 30 sec L-sit hold before both on every workout day??

-I should attain a 3x30 German Hang, and then I can add Bl work. Should I take out the GHs if I add the Bl work?

-I did not find any pre-requisite as far as the Fl goes...

In addition to that, I found that I should work with:

-Straight-arm Planks (feet same height as shoulders)

-Reverse Planks (is it in this video:

Probably until I get 3x60 of both of those, am I right?

Stuff like PB support holds and Bar-hanging, I can easily hold for 3x60, so I guess there's no point in working there?

So, as a warm-up, I should do something like:

1) Plank

2) Reverse Plank

3) Hollow hold

4) Arch hold

Trying to get 3x60 on all of those. Then I would continue with the FSP of the day (which, in my case, would only be the L-sit and HS work for 10 min).

Where should I plug in the German hangs in there?

Finally What about ring support? When should I add it to my training?

Once I do get 3x60 on all of those "warm-up" exercises, I should still keep it in my training with a 1x60 hold for warm-up??

More importantly, what am I missing??

Thank you so much for the clarification. Everything is a little spread-out in the website, so I wanted to make sure I got it right

Once you can do 3x60, you can do one maintenance set and work on to the next progression.

Something I use as part of my prerequisites warmup is simply the inverted hang on rings. However, I turn the rings horizontal and slightly lean my torso and legs off vertical forward to the FL by a few degrees. I also use a similar hang for the BL that is off vertical. If you didn't have rings, you can do it on a bar (which we might call a cradle or candlestick) and it's a teensy bit tougher.

This is something I simply like to do and I don't believe it's in the seminar material. Sliz and I talked about it on the forum once so I started inserting it my WU with the planks. I merely consider it a different type of hang besides the over and undergrip hang.

After hitting the 30/60s on L-sit, you would work the straddle-L sit, and then manna starting with the MiddleSplitHold. You would still use a 30s hold as maintenance work.

Stuff like PB support and bar hang can be done for you as one set of 60s in your WarmUp.

Ring Support should be done after a 60s PB support. You can insert a 60s ring plank hold prior. I do not believe this is seminar material but simply I do in my training (when I was working to getting my ring support back). It's also what I use for my boys.

Sometimes instead of just jumping from ring plank support to ring support I use an assisted L support. This does not really work their L to any degree but they simply start by sitting in L and then pushing into support on the rings while their heels are anchored on the floor. For some I've allowed them to bend their knees. This came about as just something else to do for my boys on low rings besides ring plank support.

Blairbob said:

Once you can do 3x60, you can do one maintenance set and work on to the next progression.

Something I use as part of my prerequisites warmup is simply the inverted hang on rings. However, I turn the rings horizontal and slightly lean my torso and legs off vertical forward to the FL by a few degrees. I also use a similar hang for the BL that is off vertical. If you didn't have rings, you can do it on a bar (which we might call a cradle or candlestick) and it's a teensy bit tougher.

This is something I simply like to do and I don't believe it's in the seminar material. Sliz and I talked about it on the forum once so I started inserting it my WU with the planks. I merely consider it a different type of hang besides the over and undergrip hang.

After hitting the 30/60s on L-sit, you would work the straddle-L sit, and then manna starting with the MiddleSplitHold. You would still use a 30s hold as maintenance work.

Stuff like PB support and bar hang can be done for you as one set of 60s in your WarmUp.

Ring Support should be done after a 60s PB support. You can insert a 60s ring plank hold prior. I do not believe this is seminar material but simply I do in my training (when I was working to getting my ring support back). It's also what I use for my boys.

Sometimes instead of just jumping from ring plank support to ring support I use an assisted L support. This does not really work their L to any degree but they simply start by sitting in L and then pushing into support on the rings while their heels are anchored on the floor. For some I've allowed them to bend their knees. This came about as just something else to do for my boys on low rings besides ring plank support.

I understand. Thank you for the information!

So for stuff like L-sits and German Hangs, even after I'm pass their progression and I'm doing harder stuff (Planche and Bl work, respectively), I would still keep a 30 sec hold for each. Sounds good!

I can easily get more than 60 s of PB support. Which means that if I work with support hold, I would be wise to use Ring support for that. Any thoughts on the sets? Or just like the PB support (1 set of as long as it is comfortable)? Or maybe 3x [insert time] like the Plank stuff? I believe building up a strong rings-turned-out support hold is good for the Bl?

The main thing that I wanted to know is if I was missing anything, but you pointed out the invert hangs. I'll try them out, and see.

One last thing that I needed to get straight. Should I do the horizontal, straight-arm Planks on the floor with feet on something, or should I do them on rings? Because I know I could get 3x60s of the former, so I would think working with the latter would be better for strength gains?

Thank you for the help yet again. I was simply confused by all of this "prerequisite" stuff that BtGB didn't have, but I understand it far more now!

L-sit is supposed to be 60s, not 30s. 60s is preferred for German Hang.

When I could not do a 60s ring support I used a SSC for it. 60s split up in holds@50% of Max. So 4x15, 3x20, 2x30, etc. You could work more than 1m of volume if you so wish. I didn't but it's doable.

After ring support is ring L-sit then ring HS and press to HS on rings.

the straight arm plank on floor is different than straight arm plank support on rings. Try to elevate your feet so your hips and shoulders and feet are all horizontal.

However, think of it as this:

plank support on floor, pb support, plank support on rings, ring support.

I'm the one who recommend a strong RTO support before BL. It's nothing I have concrete evidence on but just a hypothesis from when I've trained young compulsory gymnasts.

Blairbob said:

After hitting the 30/60s on L-sit, you would work the straddle-L sit, and then manna starting with the MiddleSplitHold. You would still use a 30s hold as maintenance work.

Blairbob said:

L-sit is supposed to be 60s, not 30s.

So I work up to a 1x60 secs L-sit, then I start Straddle L work while keeping a 30 sec L-sit hold in there as maintenance. Got you!

Blairbob said:

60s is preferred for German Hang.

I found a bunch of threads where the "progression standard" for German Hangs was a 3x30, which is why I thought it used 30 secs.

However, if 60 s is preferred, then I should work up to 3x60, and then perhaps do 1 hold of 1x30-60 s as maintenance when I work with stuff like Bl? Sounds good!

Blairbob said:

When I could not do a 60s ring support I used a SSC for it. 60s split up in holds@50% of Max. So 4x15, 3x20, 2x30, etc. You could work more than 1m of volume if you so wish. I didn't but it's doable.

After ring support is ring L-sit then ring HS and press to HS on rings.

This is very useful information, due to the fact that I can apply it to other FSPs. You have no idea how grateful I am for having a person like you sharing this kind of knowledge!

Blairbob said:

plank support on floor, pb support, plank support on rings, ring support.

I'm the one who recommend a strong RTO support before BL. It's nothing I have concrete evidence on but just a hypothesis from when I've trained young compulsory gymnasts.

I'm already working on RTO support twice a week, and PB support twice a week. SO by the time I reach the Bl (perhaps in 4-5 weeks, when I finish this SSC, I'll be ready for the addition of German Hangs, and after a SSC of those, I can start with Bl stuff!

So just one last thing that I wanted you to take a look at, mainly to make sure I ended up with everything right:

- 4 times a week, I'll be doing 3 sets of: Planks, Reverse Planks, Hollow Holds and Arch holds, in circuit, with very little rest. I will hold them for X amount of time (haven't decided yet) which will be challenging, but not hard enough that it'll zap me from the energy to perform well for the rest of the workout.

- 2 times a week, I'll be doing 7x9 of L-sit (straight legs, on the floor). 2 times a week, I will also do 10-12 min of Handstand work. 2 times a week, I'll be doing Hanging work (mostly for my grip, so it goes nicely) and Ring support holds.

It seems like the right idea. One last thing. I do a lot of pulling in the form of Pullups, and I'll be doing ring support twice a week. Do I need to add PB support and Deadhang Chin-up holds in my routine?? I would think those attributes get enough work with the routine, as-is.

Again, sorry for asking too many questions, but I finally got the hang of it. Thank you a bunch!

Work up to being able to do 3x60 L-sit, then 1x60 as maintenance.

That rings progression is what Coach Sommer has posted before.

The PB support and dead hangs are just a WU and a stretch. For some it may be trying, if it is, that should be their focus. But ideally it's just an easy WU and stretch as should any of the plank/hang series should be.

Some of the posts say 30s, some say 60s. Which do you think is correct? :twisted: In some cases, it's a grey area.

Blairbob said:

Work up to being able to do 3x60 L-sit, then 1x60 as maintenance.

That rings progression is what Coach Sommer has posted before.

The PB support and dead hangs are just a WU and a stretch. For some it may be trying, if it is, that should be their focus. But ideally it's just an easy WU and stretch as should any of the plank/hang series should be.

Some of the posts say 30s, some say 60s. Which do you think is correct? :twisted: In some cases, it's a grey area.

All right. Sounds great!

I do have a question regarding execution of one of the pre-requisites. You say the PB support and dead hangs are supposed to be stretches. So I'm guessing that when I do them, I should let my shoulders shrug up all the way to my ears?

My last question (hopefully, you will be able to answer it). This is what I'm using for prerequisites. I've gotten it from other threads:

-Plank

-Rev. Plank

-Hollow hold

-Arch hold

-PB support

-Deadhangs

Now. I CAN do 3x60 of any of these. But if I do them CONSECUTIVELY, I am unable to get 3x60 for all (I'm tired by the time I reach the PB supports). Also, I haven't done them for any appreciative amount of time (but I can do 3x60 for any of them simply because I've worked with push-up, pull-ups and others for 2 years now).

So, should I just do 1x60 for the ones I can manage a 3x60 on? Or since I haven't spent time on them and can't do 3x60 for ALL of them in one sitting, then I should keep them in at a higher volume than just maintenance??

If I should do the latter, then a hold time between 1x60 (maintenance) and 3x60 (which is my max... I'm too tired if I use 3x60 for them all and it' supposed to be more of a warm-up) is probably what I should use? Perhaps 2x60?

And then, after 4-5 weeks of this, I would probably be able to do 3x60 for all of them in one sitting. THAT'S when I change them all to maintenance??

Does that sound like a good idea?

Again, thank you very much for all of the help you've given. Can't thank enough for the time you take!

PB support and dead hang are just WU exercises. The dead hang is sort of a stretch.

You'd be fine just doing 1x60 as maintenance work. I like to do shrugs with some of the positions to warmup for the holds. Shrug in plank and just rock in reverse plank. Use 10 or 20 rocks in hollow or arch.

Blairbob said:

PB support and dead hang are just WU exercises. The dead hang is sort of a stretch.

You'd be fine just doing 1x60 as maintenance work. I like to do shrugs with some of the positions to warmup for the holds. Shrug in plank and just rock in reverse plank. Use 10 or 20 rocks in hollow or arch.

Yes yes. That sounds great!

Again, thank you very much for your help. It's greatly appreciated!