10 Gymnastic Questions

1. Should you always point your toes on every exercise? For example pointed toes for planche, FL, BL. Is it really mandatory? What about for single leg squats?

2. Are Inverted Curls FBE necessary if you already have rows and pullups?

3. How do you breathe when doing FBEs? Exhale on concentric and inhale on eccentric?

4. Are you supposed to contract your scapula in pullups?

5. Do Multi-plane pressing/pulling movements eventually replace all the rowing/pushup/HSPU/pullup work?

6. Would a 3x10 template followed after a 5x5 template be reasonable for the FBE's, if you are looking to add some muscle?

7. Almost all FSP have a FBE variant. Planche and planche pushups, front lever and front lever rows, l-sit and hanging leg lifts. What about Back levers? Do they have an FBE variant?

8. Do Back levers help loosen up the shoulder joint? Are they necessary if you are not interested in Maltese/Iron cross/Victorian?

9. Do One arm pushups (Perfect form) and One arm chinups have their place in gymnastics training? What about for strength and muscle in general?

10. Does Straddle-L replace the L-Sit, and does Manna replace the Straddle-L?

1. Should you always point your toes on every exercise? For example pointed toes for planche, FL, BL. Is it really mandatory? What about for single leg squats?

Mandatory and mandatory - we aren't getting judged for points, i find the toe point to make the leg activate much better, when i don't point everything else is lazier as well.

2. Are Inverted Curls FBE necessary if you already have rows and pullups?

They are different movements. The Inverted Curls leads to Inverted MU!

3. How do you breathe when doing FBEs? Exhale on concentric and inhale on eccentric?

I don't really hear gymnastics coaches speak on this much. In general power and exhaling go together but sometimes i feel otherwise.

4. Are you supposed to contract your scapula in pullups?

BlairBob recently made a good point on this. There are really two kinds of pull up, arched and hollow. Arched will bring the scaps together, in hollow they will necessarily be further apart.

5. Do Multi-plane pressing/pulling movements eventually replace all the rowing/pushup/HSPU/pullup work?

Complement is a better term

6. Would a 3x10 template followed after a 5x5 template be reasonable for the FBE's, if you are looking to add some muscle?

Why not? Slizz knows more about this than me. I might just separate hypertrophy cycles from strength cycles

7. Almost all FSP have a FBE variant. Planche and planche pushups, front lever and front lever rows, l-sit and hanging leg lifts. What about Back levers? Do they have an FBE variant?

Back Pulls would be one example

8. Do Back levers help loosen up the shoulder joint? Are they necessary if you are not interested in Maltese/Iron cross/Victorian?

Ultimately its up to you. They are one of the basic gymnastic static holds on their own. How much emphasis you place on it is determined by you.

9. Do One arm pushups (Perfect form) and One arm chinups have their place in gymnastics training? What about for strength and muscle in general?

There is a one arm thread currently active, take a look at it

http://gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6694

10. Does Straddle-L replace the L-Sit, and does Manna replace the Straddle-L?

To my knowledge nothing is replaced, you still maintain the earlier progressions but they also support building up to the more difficult progressions. Manna and Straddle L go in opposite directions and so are unrelated. Straddle L leads towards Planche.

Thank you for your input Mr.Brady,

What type of pullup do you prefer? (hollow vs arched). Which one do you think is best for back development? I remember Sliz saying contracting your scapula at the top portion works your back more, would this be apply to all pullup progressions laid out in BtGB? Wouldn't it be different for L-Pullups or Behind the neck pullups?

I'm sure Slizz and Bob will have their own thoughts on that question.

In terms of progression, the arch is going to be easier, and more importantly hit the scapular retractors. It comes first. From that, developing the deadhang, as that progresses move towards the hollow.

You can still maintain the scap work by doing hanging shrugs.

Are you sure the mass protocol is 3x10? I thought it was 10x3...

Patrick Smith said:

Are you sure the mass protocol is 3x10? I thought it was 10x3...

The book suggests 3x10 OR 12/10/8/6/4 I think

GVT is 5x10@50% no?

German hangs loosen up the shoulder joint, I wouldn't say BL do since it's about keeping tight.

BL FBE might be skin the cat or dip to back lever or MU to BL.

Yes, you should point your toes if you want to keep the body tight and tense. Longer lever as well.

GVT is 5x10@50% no?

I think it is 10x10@60% of max but in reality you wont be able to do 10 reps at that weight for 10 sets with the rest permitted, I could be wrong though.

Are you sure the mass protocol is 3x10? I thought it was 10x3...

The others are referring to the book but you are correct that for hypertrophy slizz recommended 10 or more sets of 3 reps of your 6 rep max with 60sec rest between sets. Wether or not you could manage this after a 5x5 of FBE's or not is a different matter, it may be alright for some people but too much for others so you may need to split strength and hypertrophy focused days. I'm pretty sure this is what slizz said but as usual I can't find the thread in which he said it, maybe someone else has bookmarked it and can post it up to confirm if what I sid was correct.

GVT is a blanket term that means little on its own. Beginner GVT is 10x10 with ~50% of 1rm. This causes vasularization and increased healing and mitochondrial counts more than size. Intermediate is 10x6 with a 12RM. Advanced has a few variations, and my personal variation is 10x3. You don't have to start off that way, and I do believe that if you have NEVER done huge endurance volume in your life that you will benefit from 8-10 weeks of 10x10. You won't get that much stronger or bigger but you will set yourself up for excellent healing. The intermediate protocol is probably more appropriate for most people their first time around, but you will always get your best gains with 10x3 using 60s rests, because you are activating the most motor groups and only motor groups that are used will adapt and grow.

5x5 is sort of a blanket term as well, and really isn't good for much more than transitioning towards heavier or more dense work. Too many people try to actually use their 5rm or close to it, and that's too much. It's not the most efficient way to get strong and it isn't a great way to get big without drugs for most people. Of course, if you've never done it before you'll have a better chance of getting a good response, but 3x6-10 will be better. More loading in less time without going to failure.

It is ridiculous to ask which pull up method is preferred, because anyone who has a preference is probably ignorant of the benefits of their less preferred variant. That doesn't make them stupid, but working one more than the other will lead to variably bad places. Could just be poor progress in overall ability or it could lead to dysfunction and injury. Your safest and most surefire way to get what you need and avoid injuries is to split the workout 50/50 on arched (scapular retraction) and hollow (scapular protraction) variants. They work completely differently and compliment each other. At first you may need to do more retraction, and slowly work into the hollows. EVERYTHING should be done from a dead hang. If you can't do that you're wasting your time working on anything else.

Sliz, when you talk about 10x3, that isn't still at the ~50% 1RM, is it? Seems like if you're doing 10x10 at ~50%, you could do 80-90% of max for the 10x3 and keep it up.

http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html

Lord no! 10x3 is with your 6RM just as 10x6 is with your 12RM.

slizzardman said:

Lord no! 10x3 is with your 6RM just as 10x6 is with your 12RM.

LOL! Okay, that's good to know!

slizzardman said:

GVT is a blanket term that means little on its own. Beginner GVT is 10x10 with ~50% of 1rm. This causes vasularization and increased healing and mitochondrial counts more than size. Intermediate is 10x6 with a 12RM. Advanced has a few variations, and my personal variation is 10x3. You don't have to start off that way, and I do believe that if you have NEVER done huge endurance volume in your life that you will benefit from 8-10 weeks of 10x10. You won't get that much stronger or bigger but you will set yourself up for excellent healing. The intermediate protocol is probably more appropriate for most people their first time around, but you will always get your best gains with 10x3 using 60s rests, because you are activating the most motor groups and only motor groups that are used will adapt and grow.

5x5 is sort of a blanket term as well, and really isn't good for much more than transitioning towards heavier or more dense work. Too many people try to actually use their 5rm or close to it, and that's too much. It's not the most efficient way to get strong and it isn't a great way to get big without drugs for most people. Of course, if you've never done it before you'll have a better chance of getting a good response, but 3x6-10 will be better. More loading in less time without going to failure.

It is ridiculous to ask which pull up method is preferred, because anyone who has a preference is probably ignorant of the benefits of their less preferred variant. That doesn't make them stupid, but working one more than the other will lead to variably bad places. Could just be poor progress in overall ability or it could lead to dysfunction and injury. Your safest and most surefire way to get what you need and avoid injuries is to split the workout 50/50 on arched (scapular retraction) and hollow (scapular protraction) variants. They work completely differently and compliment each other. At first you may need to do more retraction, and slowly work into the hollows. EVERYTHING should be done from a dead hang. If you can't do that you're wasting your time working on anything else.

Hey Sliz,

To clarify my question on rep/sets, I meant that for a particular exercise, let's take Dips for example. I would do them until I can achieve 5 sets of 5 reps, this should mean I have built enough strength from this exercise to move onto the next harder dip variation (this is from what I read in the book about programming). However I am going to add my own variation, and instead of moving up to the next progression of Dips, I am going to stick with Dips and drop the sets to 3 and raise the reps to 10, of course I will slowly build up to that. The point of 3x10 for me after accomplishing 5x5 is to build up some more reps and hopefully build some hypertrophy. I thought about going for 5x10 but I am afraid it may be too much volume (5 sets of 10 reps), what do you think?

For each FBE I use a tempo of 2-1-2, meaning 2 seconds up, 1 second pause, 2 seconds down. This adds up to about 5 seconds per rep, and using the 5x5 template I will hit 25 seconds of TUT, close to pure strength. When I switch over to 3x10 after I'm done, I will hit 50 seconds of TUT, putting me in a range of strength+hypertrophy and not too far into the beginnings of endurance (which happens over 60-70 seconds).

So basically, when I am achieve 5x5 on a particular exercise, I will aim for 3x10 for that same exercise. But I will not do both templates at the same time, that is just too much volume, I can't imagine doing 5x5 then 3x10 right after in the same session.

About what type of pull-up, I was pretty ignorant asking which one is the BEST, since they both obviously have their benefits. Though which type of pull-up will you do in L-Pullups, Wide Grip, Behind the Neck, etc. Basically which type of pull-up will help me in the later progressions in the "Pull-up" section of BtGB.

Thanks for your input

5x10 should be no problem, but I'd do 3x10 until that seems reasonable and then 4x10 and THEN 5x10.

You will need both types of pull ups, but if there was one to concentrate on for injury prevention purposes it would be pull ups with scapular retraction!

You would definitely not want to do both templates in one workout, but doing 3-5x10 one day and then doing 5x5 later in the week with a slightly harder dip (weighted or something) is reasonable.

slizzardman said:

5x10 should be no problem, but I'd do 3x10 until that seems reasonable and then 4x10 and THEN 5x10.

You will need both types of pull ups, but if there was one to concentrate on for injury prevention purposes it would be pull ups with scapular retraction!

You would definitely not want to do both templates in one workout, but doing 3-5x10 one day and then doing 5x5 later in the week with a slightly harder dip (weighted or something) is reasonable.

Thanks bro, will definitely aim for 5x10.

It sucks I spent a year on Convict Conditioning instead of gymnastic exercises. I decided to "start on step 1" like all the other cult members on Dragondoor and blindly followed the progressions thinking it will bring me godlike strength. Well I was wrong, I wasted like 6 months on steps 1-4 thinking it will "make my joints uber strong" and one day I just snapped out of it and realized I am wasting my time doing wall push-ups and shit.

By the way, I am ordering my Xtreme rings soon, along with a free-standing pull-up bar and a dip bar. Going to work out in my dorm when I am in university and set up a private gym in my room, my room-mate will probably wonder what a weirdo I am .

Thank you for explaining the different GVT types Slizzardman. I am thinking of doing a 10x10 program and doing it for all my different joints since I just got a load of glucosamine and sinewplex from Poliquin. Do you believe it would speed of healing of the connective tissues as well and maybe help their limited bloodflow? I think maybe 8 weeks of it will set me up for much better joint recovery since my muscles don't get sore but my connective tissues are being slow.

It won't change the underlying ability of connective tissue to heal, but for the purpose of mild injury recovery yes it can and should help, as long as you aren't getting the feeling that you're making things worse! The primary benefit for that kind of goal is to build up as much lactate as quickly as possible, and maintain high levels for as long as you can. I found that 30-40% of my max worked better than 50%.

Thank you Slizzardman. I was thinking either that or the growth hormone secretion from the lactate acid buildup would cause positive connective tissue changes. If this is not the case then I may leave this idea for later then. Once again thank you!

Oh it will, but only for the time you are actually doing that training. It won't cause some kind of a permanent change in the tissue's ability to heal.

I am sorry for being a bit slow in understanding you now. Added growth hormone will cause positive connective tissue change, yes? But only after that session. So it would make the connective tissues stronger, but it won't turn me into Wolverine and give me the ability to spontaneously heal?

So every now and then, this is why there are dynamic days in the WOD, to help with growth hormone output and vascularity to help strengthen the connective tissues?

Correct, that one session will cause a one time response. Each session will do the same and the effects are cumulative. This is part of why you need to have some high rep training in your routine, especially for the shoulders and knees!

I see! Thank you! I have been using mostly low reps lately and making huge increases in strength. Though now I see the high volume is useful for more than just making the low reps good again. Thanks again!

Don't lose the low reps! Just do a set or two of burnouts on cables for the shoulders at the end of your workout. Weight is irrelevant, you want to build a ridiculous amount of lactate.

A couple of burnout sets at the end for connective tissues? Got it! Thanks! I will enjoy this new toy.

Just keep them light. You want lactate without wrecking yourself for the next few days.