Introduction/ A little startup help?

Hey everybody,

Since this is my first post I 'll give a little intro. I'm a 42 year old guy living in Texas, but I don't 'feel 42' at all and most take me for a good bit younger, so there's that. I'm in pretty good shape and as the handle suggests, I'm a yoga teacher. I'm fairly strong, and fairly flexible in some ways but not so much in others. I've never seriously lifted weights outside of a semester and a summer back in college. I've been curious about how gymnasts train for years, so I'm pretty dang stoked to find Coach Sommer's work and the forum. Thanks, and it's good to be here!

So, I bought BtGB and the Xtreme rings, and some pushup bars (as limited parallets) and managed to set up a high bar in my place about a week ago for the rings. I've read most of the book and have been lurking the forum for weeks. I feel like I already know some of you and thanks for the great info. It's a wealth of information, but the trick is figuring out how to actually apply the system. I'm still excited but getting a bit frustrated as I'm still rather confused, after much bouncing around the forum, about how to work out properly- and I'm a smart guy. It's dampening my enthusiasm a bit (but not enough to make me stop :wink: ), so I'm reaching out to you for some help and clarification..

Here's What I'm doing:

So far I've worked out twice, and am only doing warmups and FSPs. I'm figuring out my FBE's and will add them ASAP.

I start with wrist stretches by following the video here:

I'm doing the warmup suggested elsewhere->

60s plank

60s reverse plank

60s perfect hollow hold with hands over your head

60s arch hold in the superman flying position

60s Parallel Bar support.

60s chin up grip dead hang

The only one I have trouble doing for 60 secs is chin up grip hang, I believe largely due to inflexibility- it's hard for me to rotate the hands into chin (under)grip and extend the arms fully and hang. First try was about 45 secs. So I do three sets for as long as I can. When I can hold for 60sec I'll just do one set. Or should I complete an SSC at half my total hang time up to 60 secs?

Then I'm working:

Planche progression : adv frog on pushup bars

Front lever tuck

Back lever tuck

Handstand - belly to wall for as long as I can stand, hollowing, for up to 60 secs. then freestanding (with wall as 'spotter') for as long as I can. But I'm getting that I just should do handstands as much as possible to improve..true?

(By the by, yogis can and do achieve very solid freestanding handstands with their shoulders off their ears, but I'm game.)

Here's some other questions, some of which may sound basic/stupid, but oh well.

1) FSP's- how long to hold before progressing? I've read on here folks talking about holding FSP's for a full minute before moving on. But, in BtGB (pg 172) it says when you can hold an FSP for longer than 15secs you should do the next progression, provided you can hold it for at least 3-5 secs. I can do frog (planche progression) for just under a minute, and adv frog for just about 3 sec. My solution is to work frog (half my total hold time, up to 60 secs), but play with adv frog. Good? Adv frog hurts my elbow, and I'm sure it'll get stronger but I find that the teeniest little bend in my elbow helps a ton. I know Coach Sommer says elbows straight but is this okay as I play with it/ build up to it?

2) L-sit or not? I am not working L-sits, cause I read someone saying that L-sits were interfering with front lever. Then I read here that I should work L-sits prior to levers. 'Start with L-sit', 'don't start with L-sit even though it's first in the book'...grrr. Is my FSP plan ok, or should I work L-sit? Also, I recently read here that I should do german hangs before even considering back lever progressions? :? True?

3) I started off holding a back lever tuck for about 6 secs. Front lever tuck for about 5. I should do 3 second sets for up to a minute total time? 20 sets feels like a lot. I'm game, but is that right?

4) Seminar? I would like to attend the next seminar, to get more clear about all this. I can't seem to find an airline that flies to Scottsdale.. Solutions/suggestions?

I realize I have a lot of questions, and I have still more. Thanks for reading to the end. I will appreciate any help regarding any of my questions. Warm regards,

Hey there and welcome.

For the handstand, definitely don't do "as much as you can" cause you'll end up hurt. But do set aside more time for it if its important to you. Say a 10 to 15 minute chunk of time including rests.

For 1.) Stop doing advanced frog if its your elbows period. You wont win that battle. The 60s thing is for early progressions up to advanced tuck. 15s is for straddle on.

For 2.) Definitely do the l sit and the German hang. But keep doing both levers unless it hurts you elbows or shoulders.

For 3.) Can you do some pullups? If so your almost certainly not pulling correctly for the tuck levers. Don't just hang from the rings and flex your muscles. Make sure you are actively pulling your arms towardss the floor.

For 4.) You need to fly to phoenix. Scottsdale is part of the greater phoenix metro area.

Hi, YogiBri.

Welcome to the forum. I have a suggestion for the tuck Front Lever. Instead of doing 20 sets of 3 sec. It is suggested in the Prerequisites thread at the top of this page that you develop an L-hang if you are having trouble holding a tuck Front Lever for time. It should be much easier to do 3x20sec, 2x30sec, or 1x60sec of L-hang than 20x3sec of tuck Front Lever. I think you may also find 360 pulls(tucked) very helpful to learning how to activate your shoulder muscles. You may not need to work Back Lever too much just yet. You should get a sufficient stimulus with the German Hang for now. Good Luck.

You know, my recent cycle was 12sets of 5s BL. This was rough, I can't even imagine what 20 would be like. Screw that. It also takes a lot of time and takes a lot out of me.

I would leave the FL and BL out from now. Focus on the L-sit/hang even if you have to do it in tuck. You can add in some FL/BL negatives or skin the cats (360s). If your L is weak, your FL is going to be REAL weak but not necessarily your BL.

Undergrip hang always has that problem which is why pullups in this grip are easier than in overhang.

Your elbow problem could be a few things. You may not have developed a lot of strength in your elbows yet. You may have screwed shoulder mobility that limits it (which is why the german hang and shoulder extension is important to work).

I have been working on ring support instead of planche and I figure when this gets real strong, I'll think about planche one day again though probably not till my dip strength is much improved beyond the 20 dips I can do. It's taking longer to hit a 1m ring turned out support hold due to the rings I use (they are 20-25 feet long) but I'm sure it would not be a problem were I on 3-5 foot straps can be tough.

I would add in some Planche Leans in there if you want to feel the planche.

Keep the adv frog stand and levers as skill work, play if you will. Just do it after a thorough warmup and stop if it hurts.

If your L is weak, your FL is going to be REAL weak but not necessarily your BL.

I wouldn't say that. I've got adv tuck FL for almost 60s, and straddle for about 5 seconds, and I'm not even close to a straight-legged L-hang or let alone L-sit. There doesn't seem to be much correlation to me - L is much more about hip flexor strength. Each person has quite different skills in case of the statics.

I really appreciate you guys for your sharing great info and perspectives. It also feels just as important having the first-hand experience that there really is support out there on this forum, even for a brand new beginner, and that basic questions are valued here (not to mention thought provoking). Thanks y'all, for welcoming me into the community and the conversation.

@Lavastine: I'm not sure I understand your response to 3). I think I get pulling arms toward floor, but not how doing pullups relates to it. So far levers do not hurt elbows or shoulders, but made my rotator cuff, and triceps really sore. I'm guessing that was front lever.

-------

I believe I'll try what kyle and Blairbob suggest around the levers. Yeah, 20 sets is tedious and time-consuming. Will do L-sit/hang to advance toward front lever. I still want to play with front lever because (with a nod to Uzeeh) to me it feels more like it's building around shoulder and back in a way the L's won't, and in a way I definitely need, if that soreness is any indication. I've played with L-tucks a bit and I can go a min, so maybe L-sit low variation is in order. I can do a full L for a split second, , but *man* the contraction in upper quads! For back lever: I'll explore german hangs, playing with the occasional back lever.

-------

@Blairbob (and everyone): The elbow thing in adv frog tuck (planche progression) feels like it's just a lack of strength, cause it gets better after a few attempts like it just needs to warm up, then comes back if I overdo it. That tiny bend takes it away, then I play with full extension little bits at a time, for all the 3 secs I'm actually up there. They've (elbow joints) just never had to work in that way much. By the way, the elbows do not hyperextend or anything. I think they will be better, too, when I can get the knees to stay closer to the armpits. The knees slide down once I up into adv tuck, when my feet leave the floor-> front body/core can't hold them up there yet.

Am I going for 60 sec german hang?

Discovered this needs some real work. Can't do a full out german hang at this point. My solution has been to have a chair set up to where when I'm in the hang I can bend my knees and place the tops of my feet on the seat, and control the intensity by pressing the feet down into the chair. Going for 3x20sec.

imo, don't do it assisted, just go as much down in the bottom of the GH position that allows you to pull 360 tucked back out. With time you'll be able to go deeper and deeper without forcing your shoulders and elbows in such ROM where your strength isn't developed. If your working set are shorter than 5-7sec perfect hold (meaning your max hold in that position is 10-15sec) I'd advise you to work on an easier progression or exercise altogether.

I struggled just as much as any other newcomer at the beginning trying to figure out what to work on (it's all logged), I quickly realized then that the 6 FSP from the book were all too advanced for me even at the easiest step but the L-sit tuck. take it slowly, work on prerequisites and what else allows you to be in full control of what you're doing, consistency is all you need to improve in the long run.

This makes a lot of sense, esp about ROM and shoulder strength. Save and build the shoulder. Switching to 360's. I did see an earlier post of yours elsewhere- your version of most basic starting workout- that was helpful. If there's any other you'd like to point me to, I'm open. Consistency, scaling... got it, check. Thanks a heap.

you're welcome, glad to be of help.

well, this is my little piece of advice.

I'm starting to realize that it's call core because it has to be the core of the workout, seriously.

Lumbar, obliques and abs work have to be an integral part of every session. Even coach admitted somewhere that his wods have to be completed with that as his own athlets spend a great deal of time on working it during warm ups and skills.

Exercises like hollow, arch, L-sit, HLL, windshield wipers, archups, v-ups, elephant press, german hang pulls, body levers and so on. If you don't know where to start from, start from here.