Intermittent Fasting - any experiences?

Hi,

Does anybody have experience with Intermittent Fasting following a protocol like those suggested at Leansgains.com?

Example:

16 hours of fast.

All food is eaten within 8 hours.

WO is typically fasted (only on a pre-wo shake of some bcaa).

During the 8 hours all the food is typically split into three MAJOR meals.

I love it. I've been doing this all semester so far (all 3 weeks) and I vastly prefer this. My body is noticeably more sensitive to insulin and I am more awake and aware. I just eat from noon to 8 pm and I feel fine. I forget how much food I need sometimes, but for the most part I'm doing ok with that by now.

If you are extremely physically active for more than 8 hours a day and most of that time is outside of the 8 hour window you may want to modify the approach to suit your schedule, but for me it is working great. I am having no trouble with strength when I remember to eat, and I am getting much leaner. I would never suggest this diet to someone in triathlon training or anything like that, they're just not going to be able to get enough quality calories in 8 hours.

slizzardman said:

I love it. I've been doing this all semester so far (all 3 weeks) and I vastly prefer this. My body is noticeably more sensitive to insulin and I am more awake and aware. I just eat from noon to 8 pm and I feel fine. I forget how much food I need sometimes, but for the most part I'm doing ok with that by now.

If you are extremely physically active for more than 8 hours a day and most of that time is outside of the 8 hour window you may want to modify the approach to suit your schedule, but for me it is working great. I am having no trouble with strength when I remember to eat, and I am getting much leaner. I would never suggest this diet to someone in triathlon training or anything like that, they're just not going to be able to get enough quality calories in 8 hours.

Would you recommend it to someone like me? I've heard about it, but not really tried it.

That really depends on whether you can get enough calories in. I don't think it's a problem, I mean I am doing fine with twice a week grappling club practices, WODs 4x per week and my extra training and I run a total of a few miles every weekday going from the train to class and from class to class at a pretty good pace. Doesn't bother me at all, I could do a bit more.

I think it's like most everything else related to nutrition; as long as it's not downright stupid, try it for a while. It will either make you feel better, the same, or worse. It's a study with a population of one, but it's the most important population with respect to your well being.

I'm currently doing what is my understanding of the Eat/Stop/Eat thing (I don't have a copy of the book); 2-3 days a week (my rest days, Wed, Sat, Sun) I don't eat breakfast or lunch, so there's an effective 24hr between dinner one day to dinner the next.

It can be a little difficult initially, to handle the hunger pains, but I take it as an opportunity to keep myself more hydrated than I usually remember to do. I still feel a little hungry sometimes, but you really do adapt quite quickly.

As Slizzardman said, the important thing is to ensure that you still maintain an adequate calorie intake.

I really like it; it's an easily maintainable way for me to acquire adequate nutrition, have the occasional calorie splurge (beer + bbq on the weekends, ice-cream or cheesecake when it takes my fancy), but balance the calorie count over the course of a week.

The biggest attraction to me of IF in general (and there are many ways to skin this particular cat) is the research into positive health and longevity implications without sacrificing strength/muscle mass.

See, I don't even get hungry. All the food in the 8 hour block is plenty for me. Of course some days it's closer to a 10 hour block, which makes very little difference.

I actually perform better in the mornings this way. The one thing I will sometimes do is have a serving of fruit for the sugar, just to recharge my liver, but usually my last meal is near bedtime and that seems to be preventing me from depleting my liver as much during sleep, so the mornings are easier. I'm getting really lean too, I'm probably right at 10% right now, at 208 or so lbs. I can see an 8 pack even in bad lighting.

Ye, I suspect that any lingering issues that my body has with respect to the fast, are related to my poor sleep schedule.

I'm tackling that battle (slowly) separately, but I don't expect miracles from nutrition or training in the absence of adeqate quality sleep, which I'm simply not getting.

I'm afraid to follow a diet like that, I'd rather not risk it because I'm skinny and defined (58-60kg / 7% BF) and the chances of my losing the strength I have gained would be higher, think better then something like "Ido's Sample Menu "or the nearest that ... :|

Then don't! It's just one way, not the only way. In fact, much like working out it appears that it is good to change the way you structure your food intake over the course of the day from time to time. How weird.

Now that's interesting and it sure follows my experience. I was for years on a schedule that basicly had me intermediate fasting and it felt great. I didn't get any bigger or stronger though, again my experience only.

There came a day when i just had to start eating in the morning, i literally ran out of energy all together, now i'm a huge breakfast eater.

So the idea is to wake up to fast for 8 hours, not eating before training (only shake, bcaa, etc.) and then eat everything the body needs a period of 8 hours? It looks something like "Warrior Diet" huh?

No. You NEVER train fasted unless you are severely over-fat and even then you have protein. With intermittent fasting all meals are around the workout. I should have mentioned that. 1-2 meals before the workout, and then however many you eat afterwards. It fits very well with my recommendations for ideal PWO nutrition.

Yeah the bare minimum is some form of BCAA or protein shake pre-WO. I do IF on the days where I don't get up in time to make breakfast..I don't know what to say about it, but I seem to do fine.

I have played with this in the past, mainly as a means to deal with insulin sensitivity and fat loss,and also in part because I just wanted to have a go. I treated it in quite the Paleo re-enactment fashion where I would fast, do some exercise (hunt or fetch) then eat for the remainder. I used to feel great, especially in the mornings when I was most 'fasted', like I had an edge. Switched on, full of energy, ready to go.

There are some words of warning, however:

1) All the times I tried it I decided to drop it as I started to get a little too addicted to the feeling wired part, and started to put off the eating. The last thing anyone wants is an eating disorder, and like they say - The poison is in the dose.

2) As Robb Wolf often advises: Only consider IF when your food, exercise and sleep are all dialled in. Otherwise it might well be doing more harm than good. If you are under-resting, eating badly or sleep deprived - you are just adding another stressor into the mix.

Cheers,

George.

slizzardman said:

No. You NEVER train fasted unless you are severely over-fat and even then you have protein. With intermittent fasting all meals are around the workout. I should have mentioned that. 1-2 meals before the workout, and then however many you eat afterwards. It fits very well with my recommendations for ideal PWO nutrition.

That's the question I had, too. I train twice a day 5-6 days a week in the morning and the afternoon, that makes figuring out IF kind of tricky.. I'm not sure how I can manage that. I've been taking a few days off, and been spending 16 hours fasting and 8 hours "eating".

Edit:

Some people fast for an entire day at a time, so I could conceivably fast on Sundays, but it would be awkward not eating lunch with my family... :?

I don't believe IF is for twice a day workers. I've tried to think of ways myself but don't find it optimal as you'll have to eat before and after both workouts. A compressed feeding window may work, no-one says it has to be 16/8 seperation. What I try to do is going against all bodybuilding recommendations and not eat for at least 1 hour before bed to aid growth hormone output.

Razz said:

What I try to do is going against all bodybuilding recommendations and not eat for at least 1 hour before bed to aid growth hormone output.

I always do that... :wink:

Forgot to say, all my morning workouts are strength oriented.

I've been reading about huge benefits from IF. There's gotta be a way to work it into my schedule!

Don't make too much cortisol thinking that you're missing out on the new best thing. Don't think Ido is an IF fan and he seems to produce amazing results from twice a day training. Don't think poliquin or Mauro di Pasquale are fasting fans either and they seem to know their health stuff too.

Razz said:

Don't make too much cortisol thinking that you're missing out on the new best thing. Don't think Ido is an IF fan and he seems to produce amazing results from twice a day training. Don't think poliquin or Mauro di Pasquale are fasting fans either and they seem to know their health stuff too.

I don't think it's that new, but I know what you're saying. I still want to see how it goes.

Edit: I've been reading that doing some of your training sessions while fasting can actually be good for you.

Here's a guy named Martin Berkhan's take on this: http://www.leangains.com/2010/09/fasted ... ivity.html

And another one... http://theorytopractice.wordpress.com/c ... t-fasting/

I read one article by a person who believed teens should avoid IF. His reason for this was that teens need a huge amount of kcal (3000-5000) a day and that it would be very hard (and uncomfortable) to fit in that much food in an eight hour window.

I've been on the leangains protocol for the past 1.5 years now. Here's what's happened:

I started leangains at 82-83kg bw, with about 10-11bf%. Now I'm 80kg with a bf% of <8% and my strength has increased in all of the movements I've practiced. I even squatted for a while, just to get something done with my legs, and the weights went up nicely (very steady increase once a week).

I'd say if you wanna work out twice a day and still do IF, go for the 24h fast once-thrice a week.

My current regimen for the day for the rest of the winter'll be writing my thesis, so it'll look like this:

- Wake up at 0800

- Weighted vest trekking for about 2 hours to buy groceries, drop by at school, or something in the effect.

- Sitting and typing 'til about 1600*

- Workout** at 1600-1700 (ingest 10g bcaa before workout)

- Break fast at 1700***

- Last meal at 2200

*What bears mentioning is that from the time I get back from my hike, I'll start doing GTG//Consolidation style drills throughout the whole day. I pick a couple of drills I wanna do and mark down how many times I've done them. i.e. yesterday I did about 5mins worth of frontlevers, backlevers and handstands, all without going near failure or even exerting myself too much. Today I did about 10 rounds of the ring strength series structure in many of the WODS (MU->2dip->BL->FL).

**My workouts are usually the WODs from the forum with added kettlebell finishing moves like heavy swings or snatches, or jumprope. Sometimes I'll just continue to fast past the workout, and keep doing the GTG routines 'til I get bored or feel like eating.

***I've eaten strictly paleo for the past month, and during this month my gains have been most rapid and noticeable. So for some reason I just had to stop and go back to the way I ate and trained before. Why? See below.

This routine worked great for me, for the first time I'm advancing in my lever progressions, holding steadier handstands, I'm getting crazy compliments from my friends at the powerlifting association, but for some idiotic, mindless reason I switched into some sort of ego-mode and thought I'll plateau. I started to do more kettlebell lifting and started to do the leangains style carb-refeeds after every workout (rather than just emphasizing lean meats and salad after workouts). I fell for the most basic of all dilemmas faced by strength trainees: Do I want to be big, or do I want to be strong? You can, of course, be both, but I'm a puritan. I want either/or. And usually with bigness comes depreciation, which goes against my philosophy of longetivity and living overall.

So this was a study of mental fortitude. Not that fasting is hard. By no means is it difficult, it's the easiest way to recompose your body and take charge of what's happening to you, whether you're gaining fat, muscle, or burning fat [or losing muscle?]. It's just that it would have worked even better for me, had I been able to decide on what I want to accomplish.

I'd recommend IF for just about anyone who feels like they can keep themselves occupied long enough to not hound after food. The most disappointing, frustrating comment I've gotten after coaching my friends into IF is (and this is usually halfway through the first week) "I'm doing great! I haven't eaten anything at all besides [some candy, chips, lemonade, meal-bar, something totally retarded] today!" If you're fasting, you're on 0kcal. That's how I see it.

Do you guys(I'd esspecialy like to read slizzardman's opinion on this) think this way is good for me if Im:

16 years old, about 143lbs, 5ft 11 (about 180cm)

Here's my problem, I gain muscle very hard, I have to eat like a pig just to gain a little bit of muscle, the thing is, I think that I'm also getting some fat with it. I can still see a sixpack in a good lighting (shadow tricks ), but I'm afraid that in some time I will absolutely lose my definition.

I think that this plan just can't work! I mean, skipping breakfast, and eating all food in 8 hour window 12pm - 8pm, doesn't that make me lose all my muscles, which I gain really hardly, in the morning(catabolism)?

Now I'm trying to eat more meat, protein, vegetables, fruits, I'm drinking only water already, eating every 2-3 hours. I don't absolutely eat bread, ice cream, and other junk food. Do you think that I can try IF, or stick with my recent nutrition?

Falcon said:

Do you guys(I'd esspecialy like to read slizzardman's opinion on this) think this way is good for me if Im:

16 years old, about 143lbs, 5ft 11 (about 180cm)

Here's my problem, I gain muscle very hard, I have to eat like a pig just to gain a little bit of muscle, the thing is, I think that I'm also getting some fat with it. I can still see a sixpack in a good lighting (shadow tricks ), but I'm afraid that in some time I will absolutely lose my definition.

I think that this plan just can't work! I mean, skipping breakfast, and eating all food in 8 hour window 12pm - 8pm, doesn't that make me lose all my muscles, which I gain really hardly, in the morning(catabolism)?

Now I'm trying to eat more meat, protein, vegetables, fruits, I'm drinking only water already, eating every 2-3 hours. I don't absolutely eat bread, ice cream, and other junk food. Do you think that I can try IF, or stick with my recent nutrition?

Ed Clements who is a fan of IF wrote about young people using it (on http://www.muscle-health-fitness.com/in ... blems.html)

"Despite intermittent fasting looking fantastic in theory, it may be an impractical eating regime for young people and athletes with fast metabolisms. Cramming massive amounts of calories into only a few hours will prove very difficult unless your appetite is enormous."

This is what siliz said above as well.

"It’s also worth noting that there have been no long term trials done on Intermittent Fasting and there is a lot we, modern humans, don’t know about it. There are many other lifestyle variables for young people to look at if they want to become leaner, more muscular and healthier before having to decide whether or not Intermittent Fasting will suit their lifestyle."

This is a good point to consider. Don't forget you are still growing.

However Clements adds ...

"Martin Berkan clearly says on his website that he has no problem at all with teens eating breakfast and Ori says that the Warrior diet can be done eating two meals a day if this suits the individual better.

There are also other Intermittent Fasting structures you could try – ‘Eat Stop Eat’ for example – but, as far as I can see, the same problems as the above will apply. It is always going to be difficult to cram a massive number of calories into a small eating window when your stomach capacity is only so big… "

I think I'll stick with my recent nutrition then, I'll try paleo for sure, because I'm already eating only meat, veggies, fruits, etc... so I think that would be a way to go for me

IF has been great to me in the 1 year time I have been following it. More energy during the day, performing a lot better in the gym, and not having to worry about fixing food at work. And it's great to be able to eat such large amounts of food until your'e completely full. Usually my eating window is around 2-6h long depending on how long I work out and if doing it fasted or not. It might not be the best way to diet, who knows? But it fits well into my life. A lot simpler than eating 5-6 meals a day.