L-Sit 3x30 or 3x60

I have been confused upon reading some posts in the beginning strength subforum. I had been working my L-sits to achieve a 3x30 set on the floor. I understood this to be a foundational level for static work, and that a 60 second l-sit was a goal. However, in another post, Coach referred to L-sits at 3x60 as being foundational. That is, one should be able to 3x60 before moving on to planch, etc. While I would certainly like to do this eventually, I cannot do it now. Which is the better benchmark for general fitness, before moving on to the other statics?

3x60s.

Thank you. New goal!

I've been a little bit confused about this as well. Right now I'm working toward a 60sec l-sit as my goal before moving on to straddle L-sit and then middle split hold with the same 60 second goal. My confusion comes from the fact that once someone has acheived a 60 second L-sit/straddle/MSH, following the 1/2 max time for warmup would leave you with 3x30 second sets. If the goal is in fact to do 3x60 second sets in warm-up does that mean 120 seconds for each of those three positions is actually ideal?

The impression I was under from some of dillon's previous posts (I think they we're dillons although i couldn't find the threads i was remembering with a quick search) was that after you have a solid 60 second hold with those 3 FSP their roll in the warm up changed, and rather than performing multiple sets of each one you do one set of 60 seconds for all three or something along those lines

60s for L-sit, 30s for straddle-L and MSH.

to ramp up to 3x60, I broke up the 180s into 2x45, 2x30, 2x15. I also played around with this a bit as I first started with just 1m of volume and then added volume every week. I was trying to use short rest times of 20-45s.

For straddle-L, I generally warm up with a 30s bent leg and 6 10s straight leg straddle-L's. Warmup early on is reverse/inverse plank of 60s coupled with planche lean plank of 60s, generally back to back.

Is it a 60 sec L-sit on paralletes or floor?

it doesn't matter, if it's still correct form.

what about wrists?

hands is more difficult and preferred.

normally i do these on my fingers. I find it much harder to do it strictly entire hand flat on ground. Is this requirement with hands flat on ground or fingers are okay? Also, fingers forward and backwards?

Erich

I don't get how people can do L-sits and the other variations on their fingers alone.

For L-sits, fingers forward is recommended, but for the MSH, your fingers should be facing backwards.

generally when doing them on fingers, you are simply just raising the palm off the floor and staying on the metacarpal-phalangeal ridge of the hand. not just fingertips.

I'm also someone who performs these on my fingers. I don't know if it's because I have shorter arms or that I just cannot press down enough to get my butt off the floor. But I am most definately on my fingers, no part of the palm is on the ground. If you want to see this really in action just see any of Jutajata's videos or postings. These guys do a lot just on their fingers. It's quite amazing...

Being able to perform L sit on flat hands shows that you have achieved quite a bit of the necessary abdominal compression for a proper straddle L. There may be a few people who can not do this without a slightly raised surface for the hands, but unless you can not touch the ground with your palms with slightly bent arms and a somewhat curled torso you are not one of them. Regardless, the wrist and hand strength you get from doing these on a flat surface really is a very important training adaptation. Don't cheat yourself out of it by just using PB.

Once you can do 3x60s, the warm up will then be 1x60s L sit and then your efforts to build up to 3x30s straddle L. Note: that is the horizontal straddle L, not the low one. Low one should be 60s max hold before you try to do the horizontal straddle L.

Standing and seated straddle pike stretches using the abs and hip flexors to actively pull yourself into the stretch with no hand assistance will help a LOT. I suggest that everyone start working on these immediately, as I have had excellent results since starting this about a month ago. I can almost touch my chin to my knees without using my arms at all in a standing pike, and I can almost touch the ground with my elbows in the standing straddle pike. I am getting to where I can start to make gains with the seated stretches now. Be warned: You WILL get muscle cramps in the hip flexors at first, just like with the hip extensions.

It probably matters where you put your hands for the straddle L, right? I can do a horizontal one for a few seconds when they're close together, but my flexibility/compression is not good enough for them to be shoulder width.

I find putting my hands shoulder width apart is easier to balance and hold than putting the hands next to each other.

Also, I tried holding a L-sit while raising the palm slightly away from the floor and balancing it around the knuckle area, and the L-sit became little bit easier.

so slizzardman , do you recommend doing lsit with palms flat on the ground (not on fingers) both hands facing forwards and backwards?

If you can, yes. I honestly have to say that I don't think there is going to be a big difference between fingertips and palms. There will be a much larger difference between first knuckle and flat palm because of the bigger difference in wrist angle.

To be any more accurate Coach or Dillon will have to weigh in here, because I just don't know how these differences will affect long term progress. I do think that the palms are the way to go for people without cysts, with fingertips being a close second. I like palms because it forces more compression, but realistically I don't think either of these will detract from progress and let's face it: fingertips is way cooler.

Hmm interesting. It's just when I do palms, my butt and legs are very close to the ground. Like literally brushing the surface. I I'm not really doing finger tips, i'm more doing the first knuckle from my palm.

Also, what are your thoughts on fingers facing forward and backwards for Lsit. I know that you recommend both for straddle-L and planche. And it seems like for reverse planche, you just do one direction. What about lsit?

Again, this is slightly more in Dillon's realm of expertise. My understanding is that fingers back will help prepare you for MSH somewhat better, but that really isn't necessary. Your MSH practice, once you are actually ready to do such a thing, will take care of the fingers backwards preparation all by itself. I don't know of any disadvantage, besides the obvious fact that fingers backwards is harder for what seems to be the vast majority of people.

Flat hands would be ideal, but if that is not possible at the time use whatever hand placement allows you to do the exercise. The reason you can't use flat hands is because it requires more strength both in the shoulders pushing down and in the compression of your legs to your chest. It will develop over time. Hands forward or backward are optional except manna, which must have hands backward. Otherwise feel free to explore the different hand positions until you find what's comfortable.

Thanks Dillon and slizzardman

dillzon can u explain to a noob "me" why manna hand placement must be backwards? is it not possible to do it facing forward?

You would basically be ripping the shoulder out of the socket if you tried fingers forward with manna. Fingers to the side can work, since manna can be done on PB, but fingers mostly backwards puts the shoulder in a safer position AND allows you to counterbalance better, making the manna somewhat less impossible.

would i want to work towards hands backwards? cos atm i cant even lift myself off the floor like that.. whereas hands sideways is piece of cake