Perfect Pre, Mid, and Post Workout Nutrition

[Nic Branson]

I'm sure Josh will chime in but if you look at the more recent info, it is not low carb at all. You're body needs carbs especially for hard training. It's really about nutrient timing and high quality foods to meet your needs.

[Cole Dano]

I think you need to spend some time reading through this thread. It's gotten up to 26 pages, and has evolved. But the seminal post, is still valid.

It's absolutely not a low carb diet, but it does emphasize getting the bulk of your 'fast' carbs around exercise time.

You say you need an Iron stomach, followed by a list of foods most people wouldn't have issue with. It sounds like you may have some specific issues with your digestion, or food intolerance that you will need to individually adapt to. There is plenty of room for that, once you understand the basic concept. You just need to find the protein and carb sources that work for you.

[Darius Sohei]

hmm, nowhere did i say that this was a low carb diet, i only said that when i was lower carb to get "fat adapted" it did not work. i have read through the 26 pages (and seen the contradictory recommendations, in my opinion) i am not being contradictory to be an asshole, just that this diet does not seem legit in areas, this is coming from someone who self-experimented with nutrition for 6 years to put crohn's in remission.

further on this point, i did mention that there are lucky and unlucky people genetically, yet that this diet does require "slow" carbs (which i cannot digest) and also the reliance on high omega 6 containing fats and meats (although this is hopefully just the original poster's preferences and not absolutes)

[Quick Start Test Smith]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the original diet in the first post is very out of date compared to what Josh does today.

[Nic Branson]

You're correct. It has been refined over time.

[Darius Sohei]

You're correct. It has been refined over time.

well then things are starting to make more sense, though not to me LOL

is there a more up to date organized version of this floating around somewhere?

[Quick Start Test Smith]

Not in as detailed a form as this, but if you read Josh's past posts (<2 months), you'll find plenty of fairly detailed information.

[Darius Sohei]

Not in as detailed a form as this, but if you read Josh's past posts (<2 months), you'll find plenty of fairly detailed information.

i have to get to work but tomorrow, i will try to create a post with what i think his current diet is... would anyone be able to help me correct it if i am mistaken? thx

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

Looking forward to it

[Cole Dano]

Naturally if you have something like Chron's going on, you're going to need to adapt any diet plan to that.

As far as I know with where this particular thread is there are no absolutes regarding the exact foods, but if you can't eat any kinds of slow carbs, you might have some difficulties.

Maybe Josh or another nutritional expert will have some advice. It might be a good idea to make a specific thread, more closely related to you particular situation.

[Darius Sohei]

Naturally if you have something like Chron's going on, you're going to need to adapt any diet plan to that.

As far as I know with where this particular thread is there are no absolutes regarding the exact foods, but if you can't eat any kinds of slow carbs, you might have some difficulties.

Maybe Josh or another nutritional expert will have some advice. It might be a good idea to make a specific thread, more closely related to you particular situation.

thanks, tho i am pretty good at adapting as u mentioned. there is one "slow carb" that i can eat, just not in massive doses: food-for-life- sprouted corn tortillas cooked in kerrygold butter or coconut oil (1 tortilla = 12g complex carbs). i just realized that this MIGHT work for the purposes of the slower carb idea, now i just need to figure out how many. is there some idea of how many grams of starch carbs should be taken in during the correct times?

[Darius Sohei]

Not in as detailed a form as this, but if you read Josh's past posts (<2 months), you'll find plenty of fairly detailed information.

help me out here, patrick, what time frame am i searching for? and is the info in this thread or all over the site?

[Joshua Naterman]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the original diet in the first post is very out of date compared to what Josh does today.

Absolutely. I have learned a ton about many of the details with this stuff since then, and will try to get a proper update on here by Christmas.

[Quick Start Test Smith]

Sweet. I guess you can call it Perfect Peri-Workout Nutrition 2.0 xD

[Jon Douglas]

Very curious to see what will come out of the refinements made to this in the last few months.

[Joseph Fradelakis]

me too. I'm about to change my food timing since I workout 6am AND 6pm.

honestly Ive never been a supplement fan but if you say the BCAA/kre-alkalyn would help I'll give them a try but I don't want to waste my money so do you have any recommended brands/products for those 2?

[Stefan Hinote]

me too. I'm about to change my food timing since I workout 6am AND 6pm.

honestly Ive never been a supplement fan but if you say the BCAA/kre-alkalyn would help I'll give them a try but I don't want to waste my money so do you have any recommended brands/products for those 2?

I wouldn't be too anal about picking BCAA, just about any brand will be fine. This is what I've been using: http://supplementdirect.com/bcaapowder.aspx

It should also be noted that plain BCAA has a very bitter taste, so if that's an issue than you may want to find one with flavoring.

[Nic Branson]

Bcaa, big fan of Modern BCAA by USP. Good ratio and high quality. Take them with carbs.

[Joshua Naterman]

for the krealkalyn, I always use scifit brand, it's cheap and effective. You can also use regular monohydrate. You can choose to load or not load, up to you.

Loadin

g protocol (research protocol for loading) 5g monohydrate, 4x per day for 5 days.

 

Maintenance: 2-3g per day, once per day. At 3g once per day for 30 days, you'll end up with the same creatine levels as the 5 day loading protocol.

 

Either way works.

 

For kre-alkalyn, use half the dose. I typically use one or two 1/4 tsp per day.

[Colin McEndoo]

Apologies for butting in on the discussion (with my first post). Josh I tried sending you a pm but it says you can't accept new messages, any chance you can drop me a pm if you get a chance?

[Joshua Naterman]

Weird. I'll do what I can, probably this weekend.

[bombadil]

Quick 2 questions:  if most of the day's calories are pumped into the anabolic window, what does the rest of the day look like?  Next, what do rest days look like?   

You will notice that you simply do not need very much food the rest of the day (compared to if you only have 1 or 2 PWO meals), either before OR after this anabolic window. This is because your body has done most of what it needed to do, and now it is back to maintenance mode. If you don't fulfill your nutritional requirements you be hungry all the time, but your body will not be primed to absorb all the food and a lot of damaged muscle will have been cannibalized in an attempt to heal the damage done during the workout, so not only will you be eating more and having a tougher time getting really lean, you will also be unable to make the best gains because you will literally be missing the most important part of your recovery.

 

[bombadil]

Also, in reading a lot of Keifer's work, he recommends the best hormonal response to training comes within a time frame of around 4pm to 6 pm.  Do you guys feel there's validity to this?  I know this template can be modified to fit am or afternoon training, but is there reason to feel that an early evening training and re-feeding protocol would be optimal? 

[bombadil]

Regarding my first question, never-mind.  I found this thread which has all the info I need: 

 

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/11122-body-recomposition/

 

 

[Joshua Naterman]

Also, in reading a lot of Keifer's work, he recommends the best hormonal response to training comes within a time frame of around 4pm to 6 pm.  Do you guys feel there's validity to this?  I know this template can be modified to fit am or afternoon training, but is there reason to feel that an early evening training and re-feeding protocol would be optimal? 

There is a small body of research suggesting that the "best" time of day to train is around 11-13 hours after you wake up, but there is also research that suggests your body will adjust its rhythms to your workout time if you keep it very consistent even if it is not in that "11-13 hours after wake-up" range.

 

I have definitely found that for my workouts to be the absolute best, I do need to be awake for a few hours first. Having said that, the best time to work out is when the workout time-slot fits your personal schedule. In other words, just get the work in and things will be ok.