Incorporating GT into MA (LB Specific) Discussion

This is a breakoff from Ido Portal's thread: Gymnastics and bodyweight S&C - supperior to weight lifting [Link - http://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2989]

This is the base post and topic of discussion: Incorporating gymnastics training (GT) into martial arts (MA) training, specifically for the lower body. Some respectable members seem to believe that outside of specific gymnastics training, weighted LB exercises can and possibly should be added to increase explosiveness/power and strength. I am inclined to agree with this, because I can not think of many ways that you could decrease leverage for LB exercises.

Assuming that this is true, then what type of exercises would be suggested to somebody involved in martial arts?

I believe a few people suggested Olympic Lifts, but from what I've read, those can be tricky to do safely without having some real coaching. Even then, it seems like Olifting is a skill of its own and its practice does not need to be added to a athletes routine that is already packed with skill training.

Off the top of my head I can think of sled pulls/pushes (already incorporated into WODS AFAIK), sprints, box jumps, bulgarian split squats (or box lunge ), and maybe box step ups. Any ideas?

Mr Brady said:

There is no reason you can't successfully combine your training with the WODs. One way to look at them is as modules in your training routine. You can add your mobility & prehab work, and any specific flexibility and conditioning work as you see fit. In general the WODs will fit nicely into a two session per day program, so say on a WOD day doing it in the morning and at the dojo in the evening.

There is also some room for flexibility with the scheduling, i have found that for my schedule and body that doing WODs twice a day works well, one in the morning and the other in the evening. This gives good recovery time and frees the other days for my other practice. I don't always manage this but have notice it works for me when i can. Some times it turns to one two WOD day and two one WOD days. Or i wind up only doing three per week.

That said, i think it is smart for at least one cycle to commit to the program as written just to get used to it, there is a learning curve, and this will make the first WODs you do take longer, as well there is a how can i do this exercise with the equipment i have on hand curve. That is unless you are fortunate enough to practice in a gymnastic gym.

You are right, Mr. Brady. I often do 1-2 training sessions a day, at appropriate intervals for rest and recovery.

Regarding equipment, I can build my own (handy! ). I worked as a carpenter for a few years.

Am I correct in thinking that the WODS are posted 4 days a week? For example, MTu and ThF with Wednesday as a rest day? I have studied the WOD forum, but the threads are not in order and I couldn't decipher a pattern besides there being a rest day every two days.

If WODS are 4 times a week, then a martial artist's schedule (with classes M and Th evenings) could look something like this:

• Monday - AM=WOD PM=class(skill+light conditioning)
  Tuesday - AM=WOD PM=light skill+conditioning
  Wednesday - AM or PM=heavy skill
  Thursday - AM=WOD PM=class (skill+light conditioning)
  Friday - AM=WOD PM=light skill+conditioning
  Saturday - AM=heavy skill
  Sunday - total rest

Naturally, any kicking specific exercises (P.N.F stretching and kicking strength drills) would be added on the two primarily LB WODS of the week.

Thanks!

To quote one of my favorite strength coaches, Mark Rippetoe:

There is simply no other exercise, and certainly no machine, that produces the level of central nervous system activity, improved balance and coordination, skeletal loading and bone density enhancement, muscular stimulation and growth, connective tissue stress and strength, psychological demand and toughness, and overall systemic conditioning than the correctly performed full squat.

This is of course in reference to the barbell squat. I don't believe there is any exercise that is a suitable replacement for the squat, and another favorite rip quote on the matter:

There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a p***y.

Also, don't neglect deadlifts if you are doing weighted leg exercises. Deadlifts and squats are king.

Honestly this highly depends on personal preference. All of the following exercises build leg strength: Back squats, front squats, bulgarian split squats, lunges, deadlifts, behind the back deadlifts, trap bar deadlifts, romanian deadlifts, overhead squats, single leg squats and olympic lifts and variations.

Now a lot of people will say one is better than the other but in most cases it's just preference. Try to tell me that a 300 lbs overhead squat or a 150 single leg squat doesn't build leg strength, yea ok....

When making a leg routine its good to pick at least two exercises a quad dominant one and a hip dominant one. This ensures balanced leg development and more powerful legs. Quad dominant exercises are any squatting and lunging variations, hip dominant are olympic lifts and deadlift variations. With the exception of behind the back deadlifts which are more quad dominant. Also remember that there is carryover from one exercise to another but don't expect to single leg squat 150 lbs when your regular squat is 300 and vice versa, meaning if you want to squat a lot you need to actually squat or if you want to do a certain deadlift variation with a lot of weight then you need to practice that variation.

Off-in topic! This thread really has an acronim dense title!

I am in MA for 25 ears. Leg kicks was my specialty, and many opponents I blow away with them. When I was younger, I practice leg kicks on daily basis, every day I kick a bag (all kind of variation) about 100 - 200 times each with full power without reserves, and for me this is the most efficient method to develop strong and powerful MA legs. Of course squats and plyometrics was a support. If you want to hit hard then First build your way through specific training. Look at Peter Sugarfoot Cunningham, he was old school MA, he build strength with punching bag and squat regularly about 100 times every day at the end of training without weights. He was (is) very strong and powerful and he was undefeated.

Sorry for not responding sooner, folks. I expected to receive email notifications of new posts, but I forgot to suscribe. :oops:

omegant said:

Off-in topic! This thread really has an acronim dense title!

Haha! People around here seem to love acronyms, so I thought I'd make it easier for them...

BTW ( ) LB = Lower body, GB = Gymnastic Bodies, MA = Martial arts.

Lekman said:

I am in MA for 25 ears. Leg kicks was my specialty, and many opponents I blow away with them. When I was younger, I practice leg kicks on daily basis, every day I kick a bag (all kind of variation) about 100 - 200 times each with full power without reserves, and for me this is the most efficient method to develop strong and powerful MA legs. Of course squats and plyometrics was a support. If you want to hit hard then First build your way through specific training. Look at Peter Sugarfoot Cunningham, he was old school MA, he build strength with punching bag and squat regularly about 100 times every day at the end of training without weights. He was (is) very strong and powerful and he was undefeated.

You're right that the actual skill and sports specific training is the most important thing; however, if you don't build a good base and prepare your body for the sport/art, you will be injured. Being successful in competition doesn't necessarily indicate that the competitors training methods are all that effective (or at least as safe and effective as they could be). At any rate, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. Bill Wallace performed over 1000-2000 kicks a day, and he was also undefeated. He also had complete hip replacement... :wink:

Patrick Smith said:

You're right that the actual skill and sports specific training is the most important thing; however, if you don't build a good base and prepare your body for the sport/art, you will be injured. Being successful in competition doesn't necessarily indicate that the competitors training methods are all that effective (or at least as safe and effective as they could be). At any rate, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. Bill Wallace performed over 1000-2000 kicks a day, and he was also undefeated. He also had complete hip replacement... :wink:

This. Look at so many strength and conditioning programs for pro athletes, like the NFL. A lot of them are crap (for example, why would you have an offensive lineman running a mile when they will never do that in a game? They probably won't run that much over the course of an entire game). But most those people are so genetically gifted it doesn't matter. Just because something works for a champion doesn't mean it works for everyone else, or even that it is effective.

8)

Another thing to keep in mind is that the program that a super-athlete is currently using is unlikely to be the same one that he used to become a super-athlete in the first place. In my opinion, the program that makes the ordinary into the extraordinary is the one that should be examined.

If you think all Bill Wallace did was leg kicks you are highly mistaken. His dedication to working out is pretty ridiculous, he would come up with crazy ways to workout even if no equipment was around. At hotels he would specifically book rooms with sturdy doors so he could do pull-ups even if a gym wasn't available. And he wouldn't just do pullups he would do everything conditioning, pullups, pushups and so on. He also trained his legs (leg?) on a regular bases.

Attended his stretching seminar ones, was sore for days like I did the hardest workout of my life.