Wrists push-ups Drunken Master

[Guest Brusi]

Some crazy push-ups by Jackie Chan. Please DON'T even try this.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Blogs47IgVY

[Blairbob]

Brusi, these aren't really all that bad. They just have to built up to.

Coming from a MA background when young, we used to do hopping fist pushups, hopping finger pushups, hopping on the back of the hand ( we called it like crane beak or something ).

These are very similar to the ones where you go from the back of your hand to a fist pushup. Actually, Jackie doesn't have a good ROM despite doing them harder from having his feet higher.

I was actually showing the girl's this progression a few week backs when I started showing the girl's wrist conditioning exercises I used besides the ones I copped from Coach S.

However, I start the boys and girls doing this from a position similar to a table drop ( on hands and knees, hips and knees are bent at 90, back is horizontal ), sometimes called a doggie drop.

From there we go to a knee pushup position. Sometimes I start them from doing it standing against the wall ( what we used to do in okinawan karate )

or on a higher surface ( mat stack ).

Actually, I read something along the lines that doing it in softer surfaces actually makes it more difficult.

[Guest Brusi]

You might be right but why do martial artists insist so much on this painful positions. I just don't see the benefits. I think there are better and safer ways to do it.

Thank you for you reply.

Brusi

[Blairbob]

Much of this training is to build personal character. Adapting to nerve stimulus. This goes right there with training naked in snow, dehydration, sleep and food deprivation, etc

Modern day benefits...ehh. I had heard from some master it leads to athritis. On one note, any sort of skin or bone conditioning leaves noticeable results. This is sometimes commented as not so wise in modern society as it is a noticeable mark.

[kombatmaster7]

Hey Blairbob, I noticed you said that "any sort of skin or bone conditioning leaves noticeable results."

I am a martial artist and have gone through beating

my forearms against a tree and beating my shins

with a bamboo stick. They do leave noticeable

results at first, but in the long run I see no

noticeble results on my body.

I'm not sure about the whole wrist thing, but

I use to beat my wrists, knuckels, fingers, and

those things in between the knuckels and fingers

with sand with rocks. It was very painful, but

left no long term scarring.

any other questions about that kind of stuff just ask me.

pce

-kombat

[Blairbob]

My apologies. What I meant by noticeable results is that " normal " people will notice your skin and joints look out of the ordinary. This can be a tell tale sign you are a martial artist and not necessarily a good idea if you need/prefer to keep people from knowing so.

Basically, it's in the same veign of looking at someone with leathery hands and knowing they work with their hands ( which is why women wear fake nails to imply they do not have to [nobility] ).

It's going to send up a flag if they see enlarged knuckles and rough skin on the joints, besides tough fingernails ( from sand training ), etc.

I'm still skeptical on that it causes joint damage but have heard that case. It could simply be also do to something lacking in nutrition or wear and tear.

I like you know what you're saying. It's been approaching 15 years ( half my lifetime ) since training to break baseball bats with my shins ( what was required in my style for shodan. We didn't break boards ). My shins to this day undulate and are bumpy to the touch. It was pretty fun to do this bone strengthening drills on the forearms and shins, and I should probably rig up a stand for dowels to do so.

I have callouses from gymnastics and weightlifting but no longer abrasive hands from grip training in sand ( which was why probably why I had no wrist problems until I stopped doing such ) and tree bark or hitting makiwara or trees and walls.

As far as a career as a professional, I'd rather not have these kind of noticeable effects as a gymnastics, personal trainer, or IT specialist nor if I was a lawyer, doctor, masseuse, etc

[kombatmaster7]

Breaking bats with your shins! Thats hardcore.

Sorry to sound like an authority on this man,

(I didn't realize there were martial artists

that have trained as long and as hard as you

on here :oops: )

I didn't go too crazy on my shins like you did

(no offense), but I did do sand training and

forearm training to a high level.

I am a young man so I don't have leathery hands....yet.

It's funny, but my hands started to get really rough

so my mom told me to stop with the sand training

cuz the girls won't like rough hands (they didn't lol).

I find doing knuckel pushups (on your first 2 knuckels)

is all you really have to do to develop strong fists.

I did have bumps on my forearms at first, but they

went away after a while. I believe that the shins

are eaiser to get bumps on them, but I have no

evidence to support that belief.

Does this topic have any relevance to gymnasts?

Fortunately, no. I personally don't reccomend sand training

or beating of the forearms or shins for gymnasts.

Srry if I offended you Blairbob,

kombat

[Blairbob]

This topic could either be placed on community but I believe it still has some on wrist conditioning since the first drill is a common wrist condition exercise in my experience for MAG, especially pommel.

We did the same striking and conditioning techniques with our forearms but were not required to break anything with them. Some Okinawan styles train breaking the handle of the bats ( not the sweet spot ) with their shins instead of board and stone breaking. Perhaps because if your shin is broken, you are done for. Perhaps with the same strike you can break an opponent's forearm. Dunno, I never asked. Adversely, my style never required any of the hand training besides holding jars for grip training. No need to claw off tree bark. Holding the jars is a bit similar to doing DB rotations, up/downs, and side2sides.

Yeah, we used to do foreknuckle pushups, pinky and ring finger knuckle or the mid knuckle on all four fingers. Actually the latter is really good for building up wrist strength. I currently have been training my gymnasts to do a few fingertip pushup exercises I've seen in other MAG programs ( maybe it was in something I saw for Future Stars warmup ).

Another of a similar drill was to go from the palms to a fist which requires a hop besides hopping fist pushups. We also did one where we went from the palm and then bent the fingers at the metacarpohalangeal joint ( where the metacarpals and phalanges connect [ yeah, I finally wiki'd it so I can call it the MCP joint ] ) so they were 90 degrees to the palm with your palm in the air.

As for sand training, I have been meaning to implent sand training as wrist conditioning for all my boy's gymnasts especially as they start to learn the mushroom. Due to the fact they end up slapping the mushroom, their wrists get thrashed. Eventually their wrists build up, but I noticed last season the progress was slower in my boys who were sizeably bigger ( the 9yo compared to the 6/7yo ). I think sand training can be a very good complement that is cheap and efficient for the girls as well ( so we don't ever have to the handwrap route ). Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that many of the girl's or their coaches are that interested in wrist conditioning.

Right now, it's a matter of just buying the sand and getting it to the gym and the necessary buckets which I don't have a car or the means currently. I wish our owners would do it, but I think equipment buying has gone on hold and if I want to have any home built equipment it will be out of my pocket ( bucket rig, more fitness rings, more parallettes, pbar pads/planks ). I have looked into just buying a long metal bucket like a horse trough.

Besides I'm sure the kids would like the sand training if I can keep the mess down. I'm also thinking we could use the buckets of sand for Deadlift training as I want to implement DL/high pulls, thrusters/push presses, and medball cleans as alternative conditioning.

[Guest Brusi]

Thank you both for your replies.

But I have one more question : :roll: what's exactly a sand training ?

I guess push-ups and running on sand

:roll:

[kombatmaster7]

Sand training starts with you getting sand in a

bowl or a large bucket. At first you'll train with

sand then you might add rocks like I did if you

want.

Now sand training is thrusting your palms, fingers,

knuckels, wrists, and the joints between you finger

tips and knuckels for as many repititions as you

see fit. It is very painful and probably has nothing

to do with gymnastics because I feel that knuckel

pushups (on whatever surface) both hardens

your knuckels and strengthens your wrists.

For me, sand training mostly cut the skin on my

knuckels severely and mildly on the joints

between your fingers and knuckels. It wasn't

pretty, and after a year of it I think that it

helped me as a martial artist, but wasted my

time all in all. I feel that it helped my finger

pushups and knuckel pushups and punches,

but thats pretty much it.

Ask Blairbob if he views sand training differently

than I do.

[Blairbob]

That's pretty much sand training 101. I've been meaning to post back that I will probably have the kids use rice or beans so they don't cut and abrade their hands up. They nor their parents will be done for that, neither am I.

What I will be doing for the sand training in a bucket is a bit different. Said gymnast will stick their hands into the bucket of material and practice grabbing it 50-100x. This is primarily to develop grip and wrist strength. It's a bit like using those squeeze-it balls or mesh grip trainers. I'm just trying to keep costs down.

Obviously I don't care if my gymnasts punch into it. I should have stated this earlier. My intention isn't to train iron hand gymnasts. On the other hand, I have played around with the idea of opening up a martial arts program at my gym, but I am wary this would end up taking too much time away from myself coaching gymnastics if it blooms.

[kombatmaster7]

What your doing sounds great Blairbob.

Sadly, I didn't start out with beans or rice.

I was very foolish and used sand, then put

rocks into it which caused cuts (really bad).

Rocks got into my wound and stuff. After the

cuts healed my fists got harder and stronger.

Don't reccomend that and I don't reccomend

that you should open a martial arts studio

cause it takes WAY too much time, especially if you do

lion dances.

keepit real,

-kombat

[Blairbob]

I never bothered with rice or beans when I was in HS, but I didn't get to using rocks. I have heard of using river rocks, but never started that.

Some gyms nowadays also run small martial arts programs to have a broader base. They also offer dance, swimming, cheer, rockclimbing,yoga/pilates, etc. It's just to have more of a broad base to offer. I know of a few that even have standard fitness machines for the parents to use while they're children are in gym or offer adult fitness classes ( not just gymnastics ) or CrossFit.

[kombatmaster7]

That's is true about what you said regarding the gyms.

I've been seeing that a lot lately.

I have a quick question for you thats a little off topic,

but I think we already answered Brusi's questions.

I'm starting this whole gymnastics thing and found

that a lot of places are to expensive for me so

I'm thinking of joining the YMCA for that.

Is that a good idea or are their gymnastics program

just for young boys?