Training like a bodybuilder with gymnastic exercises

-When he says the tempo will be 4X0, the eccentric portion of the exercise being 4 seconds and the concentric portion as rapidly as possible, does this mean that, with e.g. chinups, pulling up as fast as you can is the concentric, and taking 4 seconds to lower down is the eccentric? Is this how it is?

Yes.

-I will be doing 4 exercises a day, in pairs? Should I do e.g. PPP first, and then the dips? Or 1 set PPP, then 1 set dips, and so on?

No, you will do all 10 sets of the primary exercise first, with 60s or less rest between each set. After you are done with those 10 sets, a short rest(3-5 minutes if you need it) is ok and probably a really good idea but the 3 sets of the other exercise should be done with 60s or less rest as well, back to back.

-How much time will I take after I am done with the first pair of exercises to begin with the other pair?

Not much, you will be working completely different muscle groups. Not more than 3-5 minutes for sure.

-You say I should start with 30-40% of my max reps?

No, since you're maxes are right around 10 I would do sets of 6-7, but you may find out that with the tempo this is simply too much. We'll just have to see. You can always spot your dips by doing foot-supported dips with your legs in front of you! Same goes for pu

-So this workout will be done only Monday, Tuesday and Thursday, and that's it?

No, there is no weekend off. You will be doing monday, tuesday, thursday, saturday, sunday, tuesday, thursday, friday, sunday, tuesday, wednesday, friday, sunday, monday, wednesday, friday, saturday, monday. That will be your six cycles. You never get more than one day off in a row.

To make this work you will need to eat a lot of carbs after your workouts. Make sure they are good, clean carbs. No muffins or any of that crap! Baked potatoes, pasta if you like that sort of thing (preferably the Barilla brand whole grain stuff), broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, sweet potatoes, etc... You will also need a good bit of protein, and you should be feeding yourself every 45-60 minutes for 2-3 hours after your workout.

You say doing this will fry me. I only hope it's as hard as you say!

If you stick to the protocol exactly you will have quite a tough workout. You body WILL get used to it eventually, by the end of the cycle it won't be quite as hard.

slizzardman said:

No, you will do all 10 sets of the primary exercise first, with 60s or less rest between each set. After you are done with those 10 sets, a short rest(3-5 minutes if you need it) is ok and probably a really good idea but the 3 sets of the other exercise should be done with 60s or less rest as well, back to back.

So you never do supersets with the pairs then? It's better to do one first and then the other (no superset)?

slizzardman said:

No, since you're maxes are right around 10 I would do sets of 6-7, but you may find out that with the tempo this is simply too much. We'll just have to see. You can always spot your dips by doing foot-supported dips with your legs in front of you! Same goes for pu

So starting with 50% should be ok?

slizzardman said:

No, there is no weekend off. You will be doing monday, tuesday, thursday, saturday, sunday, tuesday, thursday, friday, sunday, tuesday, wednesday, friday, sunday, monday, wednesday, friday, saturday, monday. That will be your six cycles. You never get more than one day off in a row.

What? :shock: So how are you supposed to get big if you only take 1 day off?

But I don't understand, the article says that you will workout 3 days a week?

slizzardman said:

To make this work you will need to eat a lot of carbs after your workouts. Make sure they are good, clean carbs. No muffins or any of that crap! Baked potatoes, pasta if you like that sort of thing (preferably the Barilla brand whole grain stuff), broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, sweet potatoes, etc... You will also need a good bit of protein, and you should be feeding yourself every 45-60 minutes for 2-3 hours after your workout.

Yeah I like pasta, especially the Barilla, it's awesome.

So you never do supersets with the pairs then? It's better to do one first and then the other (no superset)?

Right. If you switch exercises then some of the muscles will get a rest because each exercise emphasizes different muscles, and the reason this program works so well is that the muscles never get a chance to fully flush out the lactic acid or completely restore energy substrates. That is what ends up forcing so much growth. Supersetting would make the program less efficient. However, if you DO superset make sure it is for the first 3 sets only. There are only 3 sets of the second exercise and 10 sets of the main exercise. I believe it will be a lot less complicated to just run straight sets. You are also going to have much higher muscle activation because of the exercise selection we are using, so supersetting isn't going to do anything special for you in this particular structure.

So starting with 50% should be ok?

Yes, but I will highly recommend that for the beginning cycle you do something easier than regular dips, like the foot supported version that I mentioned. It is going to make a big difference if you do not do 10x10 but instead do 10x5. You need the 10x10 for that beginner protocol phase 1 and 10 sets of 6 reps for the intermediate phase 2. Don't do two phases of 10x6, you will probably be somewhat disappointed by your size gains. It is important to have the different intensity levels separately.

What? :shock: So how are you supposed to get big if you only take 1 day off?

The individual muscle groups get 4-5 days of rest, so it isn't a big deal to only have 2 non-consecutive rest days every 5 days.

But I don't understand, the article says that you will workout 3 days a week?

I believe that day 6 is just day 1 all over again. I don't think there is an intentional weekend in this program. You CAN do it that way, and I don't think you will kill the results, but I am pretty sure that you are supposed to run a 5 day cycle six times in a row, no weekends. This creates a controlled over-reaching condition by the end of the 6 cycles, and your return to a lower volume workout for a few weeks will allow your body to recover and become detrained so that the next round of GVT will kick your growth into high gear again.

slizzardman said:

Right. If you switch exercises then some of the muscles will get a rest because each exercise emphasizes different muscles, and the reason this program works so well is that the muscles never get a chance to fully flush out the lactic acid or completely restore energy substrates. That is what ends up forcing so much growth. Supersetting would make the program less efficient. However, if you DO superset make sure it is for the first 3 sets only. There are only 3 sets of the second exercise and 10 sets of the main exercise. I believe it will be a lot less complicated to just run straight sets. You are also going to have much higher muscle activation because of the exercise selection we are using, so supersetting isn't going to do anything special for you in this particular structure.

I see. Ok, even better.

slizzardman said:

Yes, but I will highly recommend that for the beginning cycle you do something easier than regular dips, like the foot supported version that I mentioned. It is going to make a big difference if you do not do 10x10 but instead do 10x5. You need the 10x10 for that beginner protocol phase 1 and 10 sets of 6 reps for the intermediate phase 2. Don't do two phases of 10x6, you will probably be somewhat disappointed by your size gains. It is important to have the different intensity levels separately.

Are foot supported dips, bench dips? Are these the ones you're talking about?

Now that you mention that I should be doing 10 reps, wouldn't declined pushups be better than PPP? I mean, won't the PPP be too hard right now? Hahaha, my max of PPP as far as I can go right now is 10-11! Not to mention that you said you should do them SSC style.

Now that I think about it, what am I gonna do with the XR bulgarian rows and XR rows that you suggest I do for back? Scale them down so I can do 10 reps?

When you do this GVT training of 10x10, what should be your max # of reps with the exercises? 20?

slizzardman said:

The individual muscle groups get 4-5 days of rest, so it isn't a big deal to only have 2 non-consecutive rest days every 5 days.

I just laid out the days that you gave me for what would be the cycle for this month, October, starting this Monday, and there are 11 days total of rest. I don't understand what you said in the quoted part!

Look at this, the red dots are the days you workout:

slizzardman said:

I believe that day 6 is just day 1 all over again. I don't think there is an intentional weekend in this program. You CAN do it that way, and I don't think you will kill the results, but I am pretty sure that you are supposed to run a 5 day cycle six times in a row, no weekends. This creates a controlled over-reaching condition by the end of the 6 cycles, and your return to a lower volume workout for a few weeks will allow your body to recover and become detrained so that the next round of GVT will kick your growth into high gear again.

Ok. Something else: By this Monday I'll have 3 weeks and 3 days since the last day I worked out, like I told you: is it ok to jump right into the GVT like this? Or should I take a week to sort of adapt again doing lighter work?

Are foot supported dips, bench dips? Are these the ones you're talking about?

yes.

Now that you mention that I should be doing 10 reps, wouldn't declined pushups be better than PPP? I mean, won't the PPP be too hard right now? Hahaha, my max of PPP as far as I can go right now is 10-11! Not to mention that you said you should do them SSC style.

You can just move your hands closer to your shoulders (farther from your hips)! Use fingers back style, it activates chest more.

Now that I think about it, what am I gonna do with the XR bulgarian rows and XR rows that you suggest I do for back? Scale them down so I can do 10 reps?

Same thing: Adjust ring height and body angle!

When you do this GVT training of 10x10, what should be your max # of reps with the exercises? 20?

Yes. Initially this will be a bit tough and will burn a LOT.

I just laid out the days that you gave me for what would be the cycle for this month, October, starting this Monday, and there are 11 days total of rest. I don't understand what you said in the quoted part!

Look at this, the red dots are the days you workout:

First off, that is awesome.

Second, all I am saying is that if you look at it you are getting 2 rest days every 5 days, but they are not in a row. That ends up being 2-3 rest days per week! Plenty of rest! Especially when you consider the amount of rest each muscle group gets individually.

By this Monday I'll have 3 weeks and 3 days since the last day I worked out, like I told you: is it ok to jump right into the GVT like this? Or should I take a week to sort of adapt again doing lighter work?

Take 2-4 weeks to ease back into working out. Trying to jump in will not feel good!

slizzardman said:

First off, that is awesome.

8)

slizzardman said:

Take 2-4 weeks to ease back into working out. Trying to jump in will not feel good!

No GVT this week then? $#*!

Slizz, how can I switch between GVT and BtGB to reap the results? I mean, for example: I'm in BtGB now, next week I get the GVT, do the six cycles and then going back to the BtBG, then how long after I go back to GVT?

Deft-Mastery said:

slizzardman said:

First off, that is awesome.

8)

slizzardman said:

Take 2-4 weeks to ease back into working out. Trying to jump in will not feel good!

No GVT this week then? $#*!

You COULD, but you'll be super sore. I mean super, dooper sore. I don't know if that's worth it.

Mikael said:

Slizz, how can I switch between GVT and BtGB to reap the results? I mean, for example: I'm in BtGB now, next week I get the GVT, do the six cycles and then going back to the BtBG, then how long after I go back to GVT?

Switching off the WODs is tricky, I don't know that I would recommend that entirely. For someone like Deft who is really going for size first, it is worth running through the whole GVT program on its own until he gets to the size he wants to be, or at least closer to it, and then use the WODs for performance, fun, or whatever it is his goals are.

For you, I have no idea how to answer that question without knowing how you are feeling about where you are and where you want to go. So how do you feel about where you are physically (looks, abilities, etc) and where do you want to be? What are your goals?

Last year, when I started training my goal was to size, this year my goal was power. Last year I got to the size I wanted with a workout similar to GVT, gained 10kg. I want to win again about 5-7kg, but do not want to lose the force that won that year. I want more size, but do not want to lose strength, what do I do? My goal is strength and size!

Ok slizzardman, not to be too repetitive bust just to clarify:

The idea of this GVT is to pick a weight (or an exercise?) that you could do for 20 reps max at least, so you'll be able to do 10 reps on each set with the short rest times right? Well, I think it'll be a loong long time until you can do this with regular chins and dips, let alone any harder variations right?

Interesting how you'll gain muscle this way...

Mikael check out poliquins functional hypertrophy articles.

razz, i'll take a look at this article ... thanks

Deft: Yes, you have it down pretty good!

Mikael: Like Razz said, Poliquin's functional hypertrophy article is a good place to start.

"functional" hypertrophy is a strange concept, and to a large degree this will be accomplished by figuring out which exercises A) cause the most muscle fiber activation, B) what TYPE of function you are looking for, and C) which exercises most closely mimic the kinetic chain activation of your functional goal movements. For example, I was recently reading an article on reverse leg lifts and why they are kind of a backwards exercise for people looking for jumping/running power: The muscle innervation starts at the lower back, and continues down the lower body with the calves activating LAST. In any kind of athletic movement on your feet, your calves fire FIRST, and then your upper legs and THEN FINALLY your glutes and back! Natural leg curls and natural GHR (single leg and double leg) are both very similar to actual sports muscle activation, AND they produce much higher electrical activity in the muscles, which means that these are better for your actual performance and any hypertrophy that results from these exercises will contribute much more to your lower body athletic ability than reverse hypers or whatever else.

You can take this further and design protocols for yourself around many different movements. You may have to look into making or buying some specialized equipment (pretty cheap stuff mostly) for some of them, especially relating to upper body speed work, but there's a lot you can do with the GB program, as many of the things we do are very similar to actual performance, and the rings activate a lot more muscle fibers than weights or PB.

i understood, but I was in doubt right now ... if I choose exercises of the GB to the GVT I'll have an improvement in WODs for example? That would be functional hypertrophy, right? or should I continue with GB and have the hypertrophy that I need from the practice of WODs?

With the amount of size that you want to gain, either way will work well. If you want to get bigger, I would simply suggest eating a little more and performing more reps per set in the WODs. Obviously you will have to scale back a little on the difficulty to accomplish this, but doing this for a month should produce some noticeable gains and I don't think you'll lose much strength if any. Your return to the programmed WOD reps will quickly result in a rapid increase in strength to go along with the new size.

You COULD do the GVT, but I think that for a non-bodybuilder this would best be restricted to problem body parts if there are any. GVT is a great way to quickly shore up a weak point, which is why I am using it for my various weak points right now. I still perform the WODs as well, but they are a slightly lesser consideration right now because my primary focus is on fixing my problems.

If you are aware of some severe limiting factors I would address them with a separate session of GVT for just that body part. That session will be 15 minutes or less so you're talking about a very, very small additional time commitment that will help A LOT.

slizzardman said:

If you are aware of some severe limiting factors I would address them with a separate session of GVT for just that body part. That session will be 15 minutes or less so you're talking about a very, very small additional time commitment that will help A LOT.

For example, my weakness is my shoulders and biceps, I do 10x10 each, at the end of the WOD? is it?

Since I have some time before I actually start the GVT I thought I'd ask: will it still work for size doing e.g. bench dips and very scaled down rows and pushups and stuff? These are relatively easy exercises that trained in another way you'd be doing like 15-17+ reps per set, and that doesn't do much for size, but since you'll do them GVT-style, it's entirely diferent?

This thread has become entirely too complicated.

All you need to know...

(Step 1) Get stronger

(Step 2) Eat

(Step 3) Grow

(Step 4) Hit on chicks

trianglechoke7 said:

All you need to know...

(Step 1) Get stronger

(Step 2) Eat

(Step 3) Grow

(Step 4) Hit on chicks

(Step 5) ?

(Step 6) Profit!

trianglechoke7 said:

This thread has become entirely too complicated.

All you need to know...

(Step 1) Get stronger

(Step 2) Eat

(Step 3) Grow

Well the point (at least in my case) is to do it without weights (except BW exercises with weight of course), and asap.

trianglechoke7 said:

(Step 4) Hit on chicks

Or rather being hit by them!

trianglechoke7 said:

This thread has become entirely too complicated.

All you need to know...

(Step 1) Get stronger

(Step 2) Eat

(Step 3) Grow

(Step 4) Hit on chicks

I like the cut of your jib, lol

Deft-Mastery said:

Since I have some time before I actually start the GVT I thought I'd ask: will it still work for size doing e.g. bench dips and very scaled down rows and pushups and stuff? These are relatively easy exercises that trained in another way you'd be doing like 15-17+ reps per set, and that doesn't do much for size, but since you'll do them GVT-style, it's entirely diferent?

Absolutely. I know, it's weird. I am already getting fantastic results with my scapular retractors and protractors, and the cool thing there is that I am seeing a good performance increase as well. My shoulder is becoming very stable. Surprisingly stable, considering the short timeframe. I also don't get sore at all now. A little stiffness with what can't even be called low-grade pain and visible results are what I am getting. The weak spot in my right shoulder is disappearing as well.

I'll give this program Slizzardman outlined a go! I'll start a log when I start this GVT. Im sure I will need some help to design it properly, I like the KISS principle - keep it simple stupid. It will be intresting to see the results from this program!

Simple is best, for sure, when it comes to size gain programs. That is by far the most straightforward training effect. Proper training and proper nutrition. You need to make sure that you have 3-6 small means in the 3 hours after your workout. That is when you should be consuming the bulk of your protein, but the meals need to be balanced with carbs and preferably some short/medium chain fatty acids, with some of the later meals having longer chain fatty acids too.