rings routine after 8 months train with GB method

[Alessandro Mainente]

this is a routine after 9 hours of hateful work...

consider that i work on iron cross since one month and half and i don't remember ever to do the turned out rings in the support..

ANY TIPS CAN BE HELPFUL

[Joshua Naterman]

You, sir, have built up some excellent strength! If your goal is to achieve a true Iron Cross with straight arms, you have to build up your straight arm strength. Don't try to straighten your arms any more than they are right now if you choose to continue with your bent arm cross work, because you'll end up hurting yourself. The forces will get multiplied a LOT with each inch of additional extension.

I will put my desktop background up here, as it is the IC elbow prep Coach recommends.

Follow that and you will have a real Iron Cross in 2-4 years, looking at your current development! Of course that is a guess, and may not be accurate.

For your back lever, stop pressing your arms against your body. That is holding you back! If you have to go all the way back to a flat tuck or regular tuck, that's OK! You will build a lot more strength in your muscles and condition that biceps tendon more thoroughly by not squeezing against your lats!

You make all that muscle up stuff look so easy! I am impressed!

[Razz]

2-4 years might be a bit over the top for cross development considering his strength, but yeah listen to what slizzardman said.

[Joshua Naterman]

I know, I mean he certainly has the muscular strength to get it fairly quickly, but think about his biceps tendon. At the Seminar Dillon told me it took him 3 years to get his biceps tendon fairly well conditioned, and at 4 years he has a solid Iron Cross. Dillon literally started from scratch, so if Alex87 has been doing his planche work and other bicep tendon stuff pretty decently then you're right, 4 years is certainly an overshot. Maybe 2 years is too, I have no idea where his planche is at, but you know... safety first! He's certainly going to have a cross way before I do!

[Razz]

Yeah, safety first for sure

[Alessandro Mainente]

thank you...yes you take me a great tips...for the planche i have a solid straddle planche, about 9 seconds...for the cross, i don't usually incorporate the cross in the routine because takes to me to much force....i follow the exaclty progression that you have posted...and now i'm training with the pulley system 4 times a week alrternating one day holds work, and the next cross pulls.

The holds are a total o 60-90 seconds of holds divided in 6-7 sets...in 3-4 of these i start from support hold position and slow down in a cross position and hold with arms fully extended and elbows locked ( a simply negative with hold), in the other sets i jump in a cross position and hold.

The day of the pulls movements i usually do 4-5 sets of 3-4 rep of cross pulls...start from supp hold i slow down in 3-4 sec, hold the cross for 2 second and after a pull in 2-3 sec...

so this is my work, i use this method with the pulley system decreasing the weight's aid of 0,5 kg every week...i remember that one month and half ago i decrease the weigth more simple...now to built more strentgh i found that 0.5 kg every week is better...so in about 6 weeks i decrease about 12 kg...and now if i put on 12 kg in addition at the weight wich i use i can hold a cross for 30 sec...yes a little bit high ( maybe 6-7°)...

thank you slizz for the clarification on muscle up....the secret is......watch YOUR videos on youtube and after try try try try try....i found an exercise...i don't know if someone has used it but was very helpful for me to achieve muscleups...if you want to see what i do i can upload a video...

for the back lever i can say YOU'RE RIGHT....in the last session today i hold the BL with my arms more open..

thankkkkkkkkkssssssssssssss

[Razz]

You're one strong mofo Wish I had your planche!

[Joshua Naterman]

No kidding! 9s straddle is pretty darn buff! Great cross work so far too! I don't know the right way to do that since I'm not there, but it sounds like you're doing everything perfectly.

Yea, it's kind of funny to me that building the muscle up really is that simple, you just work on your false grip pull ups and the russian dips and like magic it becomes very easy! You have clearly done an excellent job of building up your strength! Those rolls look very, very relaxed and easy.

[Alessandro Mainente]

yes 9 seconds IF, and i repeat IF, i do the planche at the beginning of the workout...if i try it at the end of the workout where i use chests or shoulders... my shoulders are to much tired so i can hold it at least 4-5 seconds..but for example for the full planche my shoulder aren't so strong, and aren't so strong in order to do press handstand with piked legs...

consider that i train only on the rings and on the pommel...i can't perform some skills because i don't have the necessary space!!

i have to adapt...if i want to learn handstand on rings..i can't do muscle up for example bcause my ceiling is not so high...i try hs on rings only for a personal target but not for use it on a routine and the thing I'm sorry...

so my head is concentrate only on some skill and on them progression...

for the muscle up...at the beginning i follow the slizz's videos..after i was at the poit that i can do the pullup with false grip to the chest and the dips but the transition was so difficult...following the idea's of respectable Coach Summer i added a little piece of pullup and dip to the transition and i've work only on this part without kipping or swinging..

simply, start in a standing position with the rings about 20 cm more high than the shoulders...so take the rings with false grip (if you take them close or wide position depend of your current level of strength), do an isometrich contraction with your elbow more lower than your wrists and after 2 seconds do the transition looking as much as possible of don't go forward with your chest...slow down and repeat...

i use this wethod because, in my situation, when i was going for the transition i didn't have the necessary strength to waint for the transition...is not simple explain with the words...maybe i will post a video...

slizz and razz..if i'm strong in planche bl ecc...i'm not so strong in the front lever...yes i can hold the full front lever for at least 2 seconds...but i can't increase this time...if you see the video...the front lever with one leg is simple for me..i can hold it 15 sec or much...but i am in a standstill...what's the problem? i can do multiple front pulls or front lever pulls (i understand the difference in slizz's videos) but...the time doesen't increase...what i can do?

thank you.........too kind

[Joshua Naterman]

Personally I think that weighted pull up work will help you with that. I KNOW that is what allowed me to do the full FL so quickly!

Other people have had that experience, so try doing your pull up work with weight added for a month and see if your time improves. I will be surprised if it doesn't. I was able to do a few pull up reps with around 45% of my bodyweight added, so keep that in mind as some kind of bench mark. At that time I could hold an 8-10 second FL full lay.

[Sternford]

I like your forward roll. Very smooth

[Blairbob]

Alex, simply practice your MU from an L-hang.

[Razz]

Alex, simply practice your MU from an L-hang.

OR front lever--> muscle up-->planche. Look on youtube for gallimores.

Anyways I'm the wrong guy to teach front levers, hadn't paid enough attention to my own so although I can almost hold a full lay I'm doing it wrong because I wasn't retracting my scapula and I have to start all over

[FritsMB Mansvelt Beck]

alex87, very nice ring routine. Nice control on the muscle up and the forward roll. For your front lever training, I suggest that you lower down more slowly (say on a count of five), hold for a couple of seconds and then pull back up. Pick the leg position (tucked, one and a half, etc) that allows you do this exercise. In your case probably with your legs the way you show, but then not at the end of your routine but as a separate training session. While you do that, focus on pushing the rings (or bar) down with straight arms; you arms now are bend and there is no noticeable pushing down. If you want to focus strengthening the part of your shoulder girdle, that is used for the FL, I can suggest pulling up into a L hang with one arm and holding it for 10 to 15 seconds; you can assist by holding on to your upper arm. Here is what I mean.

Doing that, you put all your weight on the shoulder muscles that you need for your FL. Since I started doing this exercise (1 to 2 x a week) plus the controlled up-down, I started progressing again with my FL and can do a fully extended 7 second XR hold after lowering slowly in 5 seconds from inverted hang. Good luck. You are a strong dude. You will get there.

[Alessandro Mainente]

i try everyones of your tips and i hope i can increase...Razz for the galimores i can do it because with false grip i can hold the FL more than withour the false grip...

Slizz i'm working on the pullup weighted...i'm 76,5 kg and i can perform 5 slow rep to the chest with 16 kg...yes you are a monster....45% of bodyweigth, another thing...now i go to training and i film my cross hold with the pulley system and tha aid of 16 kg after you can say to me if it is correct...

[Alessandro Mainente]

so these are the video of the last training...mmmm sorry for the english in the video ( i didn't remember simple words like ROPE)...but i don't know what say at the moment...SO FORGIVE ME

the first il my L-sit i think is not bad but judge for yourself who know more than me...

the second video is about the way that i use for develop the muscle up transition...

Using first the Slizz's videos and after try to emulate the russian dips (with elbows more lower than wrists ) on the rings...

so the prerequisites are pullup to the chest an dip from a lower body position (i think that a dip for chestd is required as like a dip for triceps)..

the last one...for Slizz...show how is my pulley system...and how i use it for the iron cross...sorry but in the video i was at the end of 2 hours of training after 10 hours of work and i want only show the system...

if someone has a question...i'm here..and the critique and tips are much appreciated (but not on my english )

[Rafael David]

i try everyones of your tips and i hope i can increase...Razz for the galimores i can do it because with false grip i can hold the FL more than withour the false grip...

Slizz i'm working on the pullup weighted...i'm 76,5 kg and i can perform 5 slow rep to the chest with 16 kg...yes you are a monster....45% of bodyweigth, another thing...now i go to training and i film my cross hold with the pulley system and tha aid of 16 kg after you can say to me if it is correct...

man, I think your problem with full FL is exactly that. For example, I weigh 61kg and can do three perfect reps with 35kg, touching upon the clavicle. Result: 7s full FL! So I guess you have to focus on it as Slizz said.

[Joshua Naterman]

WOW, that's a great pull up set for your weight!

Alex: I LOVE the pulley system! That's a nicer version of what I have in my girlfriend's basement!!! I have another one that just halves my bodyweight, but I like the adjustable one better.

[FritsMB Mansvelt Beck]

Those are very nice vids. Thank you. I am trying to improve my MU transition and your vid will help me quite a bit. What I notice is that you start in a “chicken wing†position, then bringing your rings in while at the same time turning your hands to palms down. You also use your legs very effectively as a counter weight to stay upright through the transition. There are probably thousands of vids about how to do the MU on youtube, but to me yours is the best by far in showing how to train for a controlled transition. Brilliant.

[Alessandro Mainente]

i focuse my self on increase the weighted pull up...

for fritsMB --> if you can do the russian dip where elbows start at the same height of your wrist ok...now try do do that in L- sito position...don't waste your weight on your wrist but try to do the russian dip only pushing up..after try it at the border of the surface with your elbows a little bit down than the wrist...after emulate this movement on the rings...emulate this movement is only what i explain in my video...keep practice

for Slizz --> thank you..i hope that every amateur gymnast can set up a pulley system because is very very helpful

thanks to everyone

[FritsMB Mansvelt Beck]

Thanks alex87. Excellent tip. I don’t have p-bars, but should be able to improvise with two tables or chairs. I have also started to do slowmo wide grip XR pullups (GB book) to get high enough so I can start the reverse Russian dip that you describe. Right now, my neuromuscular system is all confused about what to do next when my wide grip pu reaches its highest point in a controlled state (I can slingshot through the transition w/o any problem, even from the top of the pu) but practicing at the bottom of the dip as you describe will cross the gap (I hope). Thanks again.

[Alessandro Mainente]

so as you will do...i did....i used 2 tables for the russian dips...another exerrcise that can help you is execute the execise on my video combined with some negative staritng from xr support and slow down untile your elbow are at the level of wrist...but no go forward with your body..if your chest is very strong is automatic the forward movement but try to do down in a standing position concentrate the force on the tricep...and also you need a very strong false grip and tricep/elbow conditioning because at the begionning can be hurt...

to increase more faster the strentgh i use a tecnique wich i had heard in a PNF ISOMETRICH stretching one year ago and is used by a great number of bodybuilder natural..and i apply this tecnique at all my training...maybe is for this reason that i get a great strength...

when you do a gb workout if you have to do super sets with exercise reps...use a weigth that can permitt to you to do only the reps wich are request...if you have to do 5 reps...use the weight to do ONLY 5 reps...after at the end of the last set go in the point wich the muscle is elongated and perform a little set of 5-6 reps in a range of motion of 10 cm...for example if you have to do de xr bulg push up...at the end...slow down until you reach that your chest is elongated and after move your body un and down for 10 cm (a rep of only 10 cm).....usually these exercise require that you are in a security situation..for example if at the end you are extremely tired...this way makes the muscles work in the point where the muscle are elongated and is in this point that is generated the maximal strength...this method is named X-REPs...if you search on teh web you can find a very great number of link

i don't know if that tecnique works for you as like me...but you can try...and i hope you enjoy it

[Joshua Naterman]

X rep training is just based on the research that I have talked about in other parts of this forum concerning muscle hyperplasia, the growth of new muscle fibers. Jay Schroeder's Ultrafit system also uses extreme stretched work as part of strength building, and there are elements of it in gymnastics as well, specifically in the German Hang. It doesn't matter whether you do a progressively loaded stretch or "x reps" for the strength, either way your nervous system will adjust and your muscles will develop whatever new tissue they need to handle the stress and prevent strain. The holds are much more effective and much harder than the X reps for the lengthening and hyperplasia effects, but I don't know if there is the same advantage for nervous system adaptation.

The X rep system is just a a marketing ploy for the most part. It's ok, but it's not the most efficient way. That rhymed! Yay!

[Alessandro Mainente]

X rep training is just based on the research that I have talked about in other parts of this forum concerning muscle hyperplasia, the growth of new muscle fibers. Jay Schroeder's Ultrafit system also uses extreme stretched work as part of strength building, and there are elements of it in gymnastics as well, specifically in the German Hang. It doesn't matter whether you do a progressively loaded stretch or "x reps" for the strength, either way your nervous system will adjust and your muscles will develop whatever new tissue they need to handle the stress and prevent strain. The holds are much more effective and much harder than the X reps for the lengthening and hyperplasia effects, but I don't know if there is the same advantage for nervous system adaptation.

The X rep system is just a a marketing ploy for the most part. It's ok, but it's not the most efficient way. That rhymed! Yay!

very interesting...i didn't know that the holds were more efficient...so for me when i use added weight to some exercise like for example pullup...at the end i only can do 3-4 x-reps and after i don't hear my lats and my biceps...is a great way for build a solid basic strength if you are starting from zero...and i think that x rep can function if you use a very big weight...not maximal but 90% of IRM....

[FritsMB Mansvelt Beck]

Alex87, thanks for your very clear description of how to train for a controlled MU transition. I am experimenting with my rings and various support contraptions for my forearms using the excess tape of my rings and bicycle tubes to see what works best. I have a question for you and slizzardman about the effectiveness of what I was doing before. I did 5 x 3 reps of XR down-up transitions with hands close to the chest. I concentrated on using a minimal movement, mostly using strength from my triceps and my shoulders, to get my hands from in-front-of my chest back to the support position. I can only get up with a quick contraction, but I was hoping that eventually I would get strong enough to slow it down. I suspect now, however, that with this method I do not work my triceps enough and am not effectively training for a slow MU transition.