German Hang question (Slizzardman)

Hey guys, I have a question about German Hangs, preferably directed towards Slizzardman (as he recommended them before BL work). My question is if German hangs are supposed to make you feel like your shoulders are going to be ripped off their sockets . When I do tucked BL, I am able to keep my arms tight and I experience minimal to no pain in the shoulders or elbows. However when I do german hangs, my right elbow joint and shoulders joints feels like they are going to dislocate. Is this part of the German hang training? Am I doing something incorrect? I lower myself from an inverted hang to a german hang with pronated grip and experience the problems mentioned above.

Anyways Slizzardman, how is your training coming along?

Best Regards

Your shoulder and elbow have much more load on them in a german hang than a tucked BL.

Blairbob said:

Your shoulder and elbow have much more load on them in a german hang than a tucked BL.

Ah thanks for clarifying that Blairbob, is there a better way to approach German Hangs without feeling like your arms are about to fall off?

Best Regards

They are tough! Much tougher than they appear. Trying German Hangs on a straight bar is MUCH harder on your body than the rings. I suggest you stick to rings or comparable equipment.

You may very well need to use your legs to partially support yourself during the hang! The best thing to do is to use whatever support you need to get 15 seconds at a minimum. From there, slowly lessen the assistance once every few days until you can do the hang unassisted for 15 seconds. At that point you can safely start adding time and pushing into the stretch. Not resisting it, but actively trying to help gravity stretch your body. As crazy as that sounds, it is actually much safer than resisting the stretch. TAKE YOUR TIME! This is not a race!

Thanks for asking, have I answered well enough?

slizzardman said:

They are tough! Much tougher than they appear. Trying German Hangs on a straight bar is MUCH harder on your body than the rings. I suggest you stick to rings or comparable equipment.

You may very well need to use your legs to partially support yourself during the hang! The best thing to do is to use whatever support you need to get 15 seconds at a minimum. From there, slowly lessen the assistance once every few days until you can do the hang unassisted for 15 seconds. At that point you can safely start adding time and pushing into the stretch. Not resisting it, but actively trying to help gravity stretch your body. As crazy as that sounds, it is actually much safer than resisting the stretch. TAKE YOUR TIME! This is not a race!

Thanks for asking, have I answered well enough?

Thank you Slizzardman! The answer you posted was exactly what I was looking for! I never thought german hangs would be so difficult until I tried them, I guess I will have to work my way up to 3 x 30 seconds, I just needed clarification that german hangs are indeed that difficult and it wasn't just me that was experiencing trouble with it.

Lately I've lacked motivation doing gymnastic work, I've been mostly doing the "Convict Conditioning" routine with 3 sets for each exercise, it was probably because the german hangs were so out of my league, yet they are a gymnastic basic, has de-motivated me from gymnastic work (also I think I might of strained a tendon in my right elbow). Should I still continue my gymnastic static work? Or continue with Convinct conditioning to build up some basic strength and let my elbow heal a bit? I just have this feeling that I am wasting my time when I am doing, say 10 x 6 seconds of L-sit hold, doing that for 4-8 weeks without changing anything is taking the zest out of training for me. I just need someone to tell me that all the monotonous static work will pay off someday.

I apologize for the rant, I have just been lacking motivation lately and doubting if my training is really going to get me where I want (being able to perform planche push-ups, front lever rows, all that awesome gymnastic stuff).

CalisthenicGod said:

Thank you Slizzardman! The answer you posted was exactly what I was looking for! I never thought german hangs would be so difficult until I tried them, I guess I will have to work my way up to 3 x 30 seconds, I just needed clarification that german hangs are indeed that difficult and it wasn't just me that was experiencing trouble with it.

Not a problem! They are indeed tougher than people think.

Lately I've lacked motivation doing gymnastic work, I've been mostly doing the "Convict Conditioning" routine with 3 sets for each exercise, it was probably because the german hangs were so out of my league, yet they are a gymnastic basic, has de-motivated me from gymnastic work (also I think I might of strained a tendon in my right elbow). Should I still continue my gymnastic static work? Or continue with Convinct conditioning to build up some basic strength and let my elbow heal a bit? I just have this feeling that I am wasting my time when I am doing, say 10 x 6 seconds of L-sit hold, doing that for 4-8 weeks without changing anything is taking the zest out of training for me. I just need someone to tell me that all the monotonous static work will pay off someday.

I apologize for the rant, I have just been lacking motivation lately and doubting if my training is really going to get me where I want (being able to perform planche push-ups, front lever rows, all that awesome gymnastic stuff).

So, your sets of 6 seconds are not going to get you what you want unless that's the very first L-sit variation. Your work sets should be an absolute minimum of 10 seconds, but 15-20 is even better. Stick with your work sets until they become 45-60s, at least through a proper L-sit. Once you hit advanced L you'll be shooting for sets of 30s. However, you should do one set of at least two prior holds as a warm up! You should take a step backwards on the progressions, and that should get your holds around 15 seconds, maybe more. Stick with whatever progression that is until you can do sets of 60s for at least one month.

As crazy as it may sound, that work will pay off far beyond what you think. That is simply the way our bodies work, there is no way around it. Apply that concept to all the statics! With the german hang, ease your way into it! You can also do a similar stretch on the floor to try and help get those shoulders more opened up! Just sit down with your hands behind you and lean back, fingers pointed away from your butt. Your arms should stay straight. As you lean, your hands will slide (or you could scoot your butt forward) backwards and you will feel a stretch all around the front of the shoulder and chest! Make sure you don't try and support yourself! Try and actively PUSH your hands further behind you and away from you! Believe it or not, that will be less painful and more effective than trying to support yourself. You may want to try this on the stairs or something if you need more control at first.

It also helps to have a broom handle or rope or something to hold, so that your hands dont keep getting wider apart! Start with slightly wider than shoulder width.

slizzardman said:

CalisthenicGod said:

Thank you Slizzardman! The answer you posted was exactly what I was looking for! I never thought german hangs would be so difficult until I tried them, I guess I will have to work my way up to 3 x 30 seconds, I just needed clarification that german hangs are indeed that difficult and it wasn't just me that was experiencing trouble with it.

Not a problem! They are indeed tougher than people think.

Lately I've lacked motivation doing gymnastic work, I've been mostly doing the "Convict Conditioning" routine with 3 sets for each exercise, it was probably because the german hangs were so out of my league, yet they are a gymnastic basic, has de-motivated me from gymnastic work (also I think I might of strained a tendon in my right elbow). Should I still continue my gymnastic static work? Or continue with Convinct conditioning to build up some basic strength and let my elbow heal a bit? I just have this feeling that I am wasting my time when I am doing, say 10 x 6 seconds of L-sit hold, doing that for 4-8 weeks without changing anything is taking the zest out of training for me. I just need someone to tell me that all the monotonous static work will pay off someday.

I apologize for the rant, I have just been lacking motivation lately and doubting if my training is really going to get me where I want (being able to perform planche push-ups, front lever rows, all that awesome gymnastic stuff).

So, your sets of 6 seconds are not going to get you what you want unless that's the very first L-sit variation. Your work sets should be an absolute minimum of 10 seconds, but 15-20 is even better. Stick with your work sets until they become 45-60s, at least through a proper L-sit. Once you hit advanced L you'll be shooting for sets of 30s. However, you should do one set of at least two prior holds as a warm up! You should take a step backwards on the progressions, and that should get your holds around 15 seconds, maybe more. Stick with whatever progression that is until you can do sets of 60s for at least one month.

As crazy as it may sound, that work will pay off far beyond what you think. That is simply the way our bodies work, there is no way around it. Apply that concept to all the statics! With the german hang, ease your way into it! You can also do a similar stretch on the floor to try and help get those shoulders more opened up! Just sit down with your hands behind you and lean back, fingers pointed away from your butt. Your arms should stay straight. As you lean, your hands will slide (or you could scoot your butt forward) backwards and you will feel a stretch all around the front of the shoulder and chest! Make sure you don't try and support yourself! Try and actively PUSH your hands further behind you and away from you! Believe it or not, that will be less painful and more effective than trying to support yourself. You may want to try this on the stairs or something if you need more control at first.

It also helps to have a broom handle or rope or something to hold, so that your hands dont keep getting wider apart! Start with slightly wider than shoulder width.

Thank you for the floor stretch Slizzardman! For the L-sit, I was working on the bent leg L-sit, the first variation in Coach's book. I heard from somewhere (don't remember), that for all the static holds, it goes like this:

10 x 6 secs

8 x 8 secs

6 x 10 secs

4 x 15 secs

3 x 20 secs

2 x 30 secs

Depending on the max time I can hold the specific FSP for, I will divide that by two and use one of the above set/time scheme for 4-8 weeks before testing my max again, and so forth until I reach 2 x 30 secs, which then I will move onto the harder variant (for example, frog stand to advanced frog stand)

This will add up to the one minute requirement for the L-sit, same for the Planche/BL/FL . I find doing the 10 x 6 secs variation for my first cycle is very monotonous and boring, I would like to know if the above progressions for the static holds are correct. I will take your 10 second minimum suggestion in consideration as it makes a lot more sense due to having a bigger impact than 6 seconds.

I will appreciate it if you share your progression template Slizzardman! (Like how long to progress though one variation before moving on)

Best Regards! I am also glad to hear you say it will pay off, gives me more motivation hearing it from someone such as yourself! Also would it be a good idea to separate FBE's and FSP days? (For example, I do convict conditioning routine one day, then after one day rest, I do all the static holds on one day, and repeat)

You should be doing your statics 4 days a week, for sure. They should be a part of your warm up! Try that, because it keeps you working in the correct intensity range.

If I were you, I'd work that first progression for close to max holds. Maybe 80%, not more. You don't want to be pushing it to the limit. That will BE a workout at first. When you get to a 60s hold, THEN you progress. That's it for all the FSP until you start doing straddle levers/planches. For those you're going to shoot for a max of 30s before you screw with full lay.

I have found that you need to be pretty strict with that on planche and BL work because that is hard on the bicep tendon, and that takes a long time to build up. You can afford to work a little harder than that with L-sit, FL, and the others. You may want to follow the template of 50% max hold for manna as well, since it can be hard on the wrists. Certainly with the first steps (frog stand, bent leg L, tuck FL, etc), I would be a little more aggressive. I'd go to 70-80% of max hold, and I'd go to at least 60s of total work. Once you get to 15s holds for work sets, start shooting for 5-6 sets from there on out, up to a total of 2 minutes. I have found this volume and intensity gives me better results on everything, including planche work. I have found that instead of doing the 50% of max hold, which is easy for people to make a bad judgement on, my rule of "If you can't hold it for 15 seconds you shouldn't be training it" holds true for pretty much all the FSP. The first progression of each is they only exception. You always have to start somewhere!

The connective tissue needs lots of low-level stress in order to remodel without deforming! 60s total doesn't cut it. My current planche work actually goes over 3 minutes total. I do 7-8 sets of 30+s in advanced frog every other day now. So 3x one week, 4x the next. That is working out much better for me. I also do a 1 minute planche lean in the morning. Obviously it's not a huge angle, but the low-level stress is good for the joint! I built up to that slowly, but that increased volume is very important. It gives you that safety zone of knowing your connective tissue is definitely getting trained well, without too much force being exerted on it.

If you have time, you may want to do your FSP as a separate, earlier session. Especially with longer holds like that! You may even pick the FSP that use similar muscles as that day's workout and do them earlier in the day, and use what is left as part of your warm up.

slizzardman said:

You should be doing your statics 4 days a week, for sure. They should be a part of your warm up! Try that, because it keeps you working in the correct intensity range.

If I were you, I'd work that first progression for close to max holds. Maybe 80%, not more. You don't want to be pushing it to the limit. That will BE a workout at first. When you get to a 60s hold, THEN you progress. That's it for all the FSP until you start doing straddle levers/planches. For those you're going to shoot for a max of 30s before you screw with full lay.

I have found that you need to be pretty strict with that on planche and BL work because that is hard on the bicep tendon, and that takes a long time to build up. You can afford to work a little harder than that with L-sit, FL, and the others. You may want to follow the template of 50% max hold for manna as well, since it can be hard on the wrists. Certainly with the first steps (frog stand, bent leg L, tuck FL, etc), I would be a little more aggressive. I'd go to 70-80% of max hold, and I'd go to at least 60s of total work. Once you get to 15s holds for work sets, start shooting for 5-6 sets from there on out, up to a total of 2 minutes. I have found this volume and intensity gives me better results on everything, including planche work. I have found that instead of doing the 50% of max hold, which is easy for people to make a bad judgement on, my rule of "If you can't hold it for 15 seconds you shouldn't be training it" holds true for pretty much all the FSP. The first progression of each is they only exception. You always have to start somewhere!

The connective tissue needs lots of low-level stress in order to remodel without deforming! 60s total doesn't cut it. My current planche work actually goes over 3 minutes total. I do 7-8 sets of 30+s in advanced frog every other day now. So 3x one week, 4x the next. That is working out much better for me. I also do a 1 minute planche lean in the morning. Obviously it's not a huge angle, but the low-level stress is good for the joint! I built up to that slowly, but that increased volume is very important. It gives you that safety zone of knowing your connective tissue is definitely getting trained well, without too much force being exerted on it.

If you have time, you may want to do your FSP as a separate, earlier session. Especially with longer holds like that! You may even pick the FSP that use similar muscles as that day's workout and do them earlier in the day, and use what is left as part of your warm up.

Jesus Slizzardman, your information is gold! I could collect every post you wrote on this forum, rearrange it into an e-book and sell it for a fortune .

I will definitely increase the time for my FSP's while reducing the work sets (10 sets of 6 seconds is way too much and boring considering that I rest 1-2 minutes between each set, timing the resting periods get monotonous). I will definitely be more aggressive on the earlier progressions, and I will leave out the BL for awhile until I get a solid German hang.

Here is my new routine, I would appreciate it if you could point out any mistakes in it!

Stay at home day

Straddle L Bent Leg - 6 sets of 10 seconds

L-Sit bent leg - 6 sets of 10 seconds

Wall Headstand - 3 sets of 20 seconds

Frog Stand - 6 sets of 10 seconds

Close Pushups 3 x 12

Back Bridge 3 x 7

Go to the park day

German Hang - 6 sets of 10 seconds (haven't begun yet, wondering what would be a good template to begin)

Tucked Back Lever - N/A for now, until I get a solid German hang

Tucked Front Lever 6 sets of 10 seconds (I could probably go for 4 sets of 15 seconds, should I go for it?)

One Legged Squat - 3 x 6

Chin-ups - 3 x 6 (Will start pull-ups when I can do 3 x 15 chins, my pull ups are a joke and I will only embarrass myself in the park)

Hanging Tucked Knee raises - 3 x 10

Many thanks if you can re-evaluate my routine and find any holes in them, also about handstand work, when should I begin trying for a wall handstand? How long should I be able to hold a headstand for, and I am nervous about kicking up into a handstand as I am afraid of landing on my face . Also what would be a good German hang template?

Thank you Slizzardman for all your insight, you could probably become a gymnastic coach someday if you wanted to, someone of your size and stature doing gymnastics is graceful yet powerful. Have a good day and thanks for bringing back my motivation for gymnastics!

Best Regards

PS: Do your connective tissues actually remodel themselves to accommodate gymnastic work? That is actually really cool! I have slight pain/soreness on my left wrist, thumb side when I do things like frog stands or back bridge (wrist hyper extension), I'm wondering if it is part of the remodeling process of the joints and ligaments.

CalisthenicGod said:

Jesus Slizzardman, your information is gold! I could collect every post you wrote on this forum, rearrange it into an e-book and sell it for a fortune .

I will definitely increase the time for my FSP's while reducing the work sets (10 sets of 6 seconds is way too much and boring considering that I rest 1-2 minutes between each set, timing the resting periods get monotonous). I will definitely be more aggressive on the earlier progressions, and I will leave out the BL for awhile until I get a solid German hang.

Here is my new routine, I would appreciate it if you could point out any mistakes in it!

Stay at home day

Straddle L Bent Leg - 6 sets of 10 seconds

L-Sit bent leg - 6 sets of 10 seconds

Wall Headstand - 3 sets of 20 seconds

Frog Stand - 6 sets of 10 seconds

Close Pushups 3 x 12

Back Bridge 3 x 7

Go to the park day

German Hang - 6 sets of 10 seconds (haven't begun yet, wondering what would be a good template to begin)

Tucked Back Lever - N/A for now, until I get a solid German hang

Tucked Front Lever 6 sets of 10 seconds (I could probably go for 4 sets of 15 seconds, should I go for it?)

One Legged Squat - 3 x 6

Chin-ups - 3 x 6 (Will start pull-ups when I can do 3 x 15 chins, my pull ups are a joke and I will only embarrass myself in the park)

Hanging Tucked Knee raises - 3 x 10

Many thanks if you can re-evaluate my routine and find any holes in them, also about handstand work, when should I begin trying for a wall handstand? How long should I be able to hold a headstand for, and I am nervous about kicking up into a handstand as I am afraid of landing on my face . Also what would be a good German hang template?

Thank you Slizzardman for all your insight, you could probably become a gymnastic coach someday if you wanted to, someone of your size and stature doing gymnastics is graceful yet powerful. Have a good day and thanks for bringing back my motivation for gymnastics!

Best Regards

PS: Do your connective tissues actually remodel themselves to accommodate gymnastic work? That is actually really cool! I have slight pain/soreness on my left wrist, thumb side when I do things like frog stands or back bridge (wrist hyper extension), I'm wondering if it is part of the remodeling process of the joints and ligaments.

Before I comment on your routine, will you be doing the WODs?

I could probably be a conditioning coach for the guys after I have more experience, but I don't no squat about advanced elements on anything!

And yes, your connective tissue really does remodel. So do bones! Of course, bones require compressive forces to remodel significantly, but they will remodel with the right stimulus. Remodeling happens slowly but as long as you take it easy and use the longer sets, you will get there without injury! That's why it takes a couple years to get a well-conditioned bicep tendon! That is the main thing we have to condition. Most everything else will remodel sufficiently from the other work we do, as long as proper progressions are followed, but the bicep tendon takes such huge and direct strain that we have to be careful with it.

For FL, I'd keep doing 10s until all sets are perfect. No wobbling or anything. You should be like a statue. Then go to longer sets! Eventually you should be able to do 3x45-60s. That'll be when you definitely move to flat tuck, and you'll do the same there. Once you get to 3-5x30s or so you will want to start slowly extending your legs, an inch at a time. Each time you want to get that perfect hold! Over time you will extend out into a straddle, which will have work sets of 15-30s. When you are doing that, you WILL be able to hold a good full lay. But, just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD. Only train directly when you can hold for 10-15s perfect work sets with the non-bicep tendon specific FSP( basically everything but PL and BL). If you can't, just keep working the previous progression. You will actually gain strength in a given position for a very long time.

In my opinion, you should already be working wall handstand. Do stomach to wall, and look at the wall, not the floor. Have padding under you just in case! Start on your hands and knees with feet near the wall. Lift one leg as high on the wall as you can, so you have straight arms, one bent leg on the ground, and one straight leg on the wall. Now lift your other leg. NOW you want to walk towards the wall with your arms and up the wall with your feet until, with a perfectly straight body, you get as close as you can to the wall. At first just shoot for a foot away. It'll only take you a few weeks to get within 6 inches of the wall with your palm heel, and at that point you're where you need to be. Closer is better, if you CAN touch the wall, do it. I'm big, so I get around 4 inches from the wall with my wrist. Hold for time! You'll need to do one set to failure. Don't go till you collapse straight down, just go until you know you're going to crash in a few seconds and then either walk down or do a forward roll to come out. You should practice rolling forward from a headstand to get comfortable with this idea.

For your wrist issues, start doing planche leans and reverse push ups. I have a planche lean video. Watch it on youtube! You should do fingers forward at first, because you're new to this training and because it will help with your flexibility. Do not press into the floor with your fingers hard, try to pull the back of your hand up towards your forearm the whole time. Muscle reflexes will take care of the pressure needed to maintain the hold and prevent you from hurting yourself. Push into the floor with your arms. This will be more of a stretch than anything else for you at first. Arms stay straight, and inch by inch you want to walk your shoulders past your hands. When you get the bottom of your chest over your hands you will probably feel a LOT of tension in your forearms! Here I'd suggest that you do 60s and keep working on that. It will help keep your wrists and hands strong and flexible. You may never make any more progress in distance, but the conditioning effect will be tremendous over time! When you get to that point you should start over with your fingers pointing straight out to the sides. This is much harder on the bicep tendon. Get to where you can do at least a 30s hold, and work that until you get to 60s. This will not be a big lean at first, and that's fine. Don't try to be cool with this! This is a great way to do very low-level work in the bicep tendon and it will slowly stretch the bicep muscles, strengthen the tendon, and strengthen the other muscles and tendons around the inner elbow.

You can do this every day or just every workout day, it doesn't matter much. I'd say 5 days a week, personally, maybe 6 later on if you think you need it. Remember, this must be a perfect 60s hold with no pain! Progress will be slow, but this will accelerate your bicep tendon conditioning by controlling the level of tension more precisely.

The reverse push up is your heels and palms on the floor, fingers pointing away from your heels, stomach to the ceiling,arms legs and body straight. When you do this, move backwards so that your shoulders are past your palms. At first, just having your wrists under your shoulders may be enough. Build up to 60s. Points of form: Do not press into the floor with your fingers, try to pull the back of your hand up towards your forearm the whole time. Muscle reflexes will take care of the pressure needed to maintain the hold and prevent you from hurting yourself. Push into the floor with your arms. You want to try and raise your chest to the ceiling! This means you'll have your shoulder blades fully retracted and depressed AND you'll be pushing down into the floor with them! It's weird, but you'll figure it out. Your back should be slightly arched, this is not a hollow body exercise.The arch should be the whole back, not just the lower back. You will have to squeeze with your butt. When you get to 60s, start working on moving your shoulders back past your hands. Go 1 cm at a time if you need to! Take it slow. What this does is lengthen the wrist flexors and build up the wrist and hand tendons. Take this nice and slow, you should feel some pressure but no pain.

CG, if you can hold a wall HeS for 20s, you can probably work the free HeS.

I would start in a pushup position, lower your head to the ground making a triangle with your hands and then walk in your feet as close to your hands as possible. Play with holding one foot in the air at a time and see if you place your knees on your triceps/elbows to hold a free frog HeS. Then you can try to pull into a tuck or out to a straddle position. I would not work the straight body HeS unless you are solid in the straddle (since the lever is half as long).

For the HS, you can simply get into a Downward Dog position and practice holding one leg up. Then hop on the bottom leg while keeping the free leg. Then hop and switch legs in the air. This is what I focus on for my beginning gymnasts, be they 4yo or 40. Eventually I work this from a kneeling lunge, then a standing lunge. They do not go to vertical, as they will most likely tip over. Think 15-45 degrees from vertical. You can build up to the point where one leg hits vertical and then the other leg does as well. Basically, build up confidence and ability in this over time.

Well now, I wish I had known about the German Hang oone year ago...probably would have saved me a heck of a lot of pain when I started the tuck BLs. Also, I still seem to have a lot of confusion about how long I need to hold the FSPs. I'm beginning to understand that the key to building tendon strength is high volume with low intensity, but what I'm confused with is how long to hold it, and how many sets. For example, I can hold a straddled back lever for twenty seconds, and I hold that for three sets. Don't plan on moving forward for a few months. Front lever is a 90 90 adv tuck, again three sets of twenty, but I've been on them for a really long time. Should I up it to thirty seconds, or up the amount of sets? Same deal with the frogstands, I've reached a thirty second hold easy, but only a five second tuck PL, so I want to up the sets to six.

Now, as far as the L-sits go, I've been training the thing ever since I first stumbled upon Jim's site (Beastskills), so thirty second holds are no problem (but adv L's are done on PBs, cuz my arms are too short and my butt hits the ground).

So, in summary of my poorly thought out and badly worded paragraph, what amount of sets and timeframes do I want to be aiming for before I progress (and does it change for the difficulty?)

slizzardman said:

CalisthenicGod said:

Jesus Slizzardman, your information is gold! I could collect every post you wrote on this forum, rearrange it into an e-book and sell it for a fortune .

I will definitely increase the time for my FSP's while reducing the work sets (10 sets of 6 seconds is way too much and boring considering that I rest 1-2 minutes between each set, timing the resting periods get monotonous). I will definitely be more aggressive on the earlier progressions, and I will leave out the BL for awhile until I get a solid German hang.

Here is my new routine, I would appreciate it if you could point out any mistakes in it!

Stay at home day

Straddle L Bent Leg - 6 sets of 10 seconds

L-Sit bent leg - 6 sets of 10 seconds

Wall Headstand - 3 sets of 20 seconds

Frog Stand - 6 sets of 10 seconds

Close Pushups 3 x 12

Back Bridge 3 x 7

Go to the park day

German Hang - 6 sets of 10 seconds (haven't begun yet, wondering what would be a good template to begin)

Tucked Back Lever - N/A for now, until I get a solid German hang

Tucked Front Lever 6 sets of 10 seconds (I could probably go for 4 sets of 15 seconds, should I go for it?)

One Legged Squat - 3 x 6

Chin-ups - 3 x 6 (Will start pull-ups when I can do 3 x 15 chins, my pull ups are a joke and I will only embarrass myself in the park)

Hanging Tucked Knee raises - 3 x 10

Many thanks if you can re-evaluate my routine and find any holes in them, also about handstand work, when should I begin trying for a wall handstand? How long should I be able to hold a headstand for, and I am nervous about kicking up into a handstand as I am afraid of landing on my face . Also what would be a good German hang template?

Thank you Slizzardman for all your insight, you could probably become a gymnastic coach someday if you wanted to, someone of your size and stature doing gymnastics is graceful yet powerful. Have a good day and thanks for bringing back my motivation for gymnastics!

Best Regards

PS: Do your connective tissues actually remodel themselves to accommodate gymnastic work? That is actually really cool! I have slight pain/soreness on my left wrist, thumb side when I do things like frog stands or back bridge (wrist hyper extension), I'm wondering if it is part of the remodeling process of the joints and ligaments.

Before I comment on your routine, will you be doing the WODs?

I could probably be a conditioning coach for the guys after I have more experience, but I don't no squat about advanced elements on anything!

And yes, your connective tissue really does remodel. So do bones! Of course, bones require compressive forces to remodel significantly, but they will remodel with the right stimulus. Remodeling happens slowly but as long as you take it easy and use the longer sets, you will get there without injury! That's why it takes a couple years to get a well-conditioned bicep tendon! That is the main thing we have to condition. Most everything else will remodel sufficiently from the other work we do, as long as proper progressions are followed, but the bicep tendon takes such huge and direct strain that we have to be careful with it.

For FL, I'd keep doing 10s until all sets are perfect. No wobbling or anything. You should be like a statue. Then go to longer sets! Eventually you should be able to do 3x45-60s. That'll be when you definitely move to flat tuck, and you'll do the same there. Once you get to 3-5x30s or so you will want to start slowly extending your legs, an inch at a time. Each time you want to get that perfect hold! Over time you will extend out into a straddle, which will have work sets of 15-30s. When you are doing that, you WILL be able to hold a good full lay. But, just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD. Only train directly when you can hold for 10-15s perfect work sets with the non-bicep tendon specific FSP( basically everything but PL and BL). If you can't, just keep working the previous progression. You will actually gain strength in a given position for a very long time.

In my opinion, you should already be working wall handstand. Do stomach to wall, and look at the wall, not the floor. Have padding under you just in case! Start on your hands and knees with feet near the wall. Lift one leg as high on the wall as you can, so you have straight arms, one bent leg on the ground, and one straight leg on the wall. Now lift your other leg. NOW you want to walk towards the wall with your arms and up the wall with your feet until, with a perfectly straight body, you get as close as you can to the wall. At first just shoot for a foot away. It'll only take you a few weeks to get within 6 inches of the wall with your palm heel, and at that point you're where you need to be. Closer is better, if you CAN touch the wall, do it. I'm big, so I get around 4 inches from the wall with my wrist. Hold for time! You'll need to do one set to failure. Don't go till you collapse straight down, just go until you know you're going to crash in a few seconds and then either walk down or do a forward roll to come out. You should practice rolling forward from a headstand to get comfortable with this idea.

For your wrist issues, start doing planche leans and reverse push ups. I have a planche lean video. Watch it on youtube! You should do fingers forward at first, because you're new to this training and because it will help with your flexibility. Do not press into the floor with your fingers hard, try to pull the back of your hand up towards your forearm the whole time. Muscle reflexes will take care of the pressure needed to maintain the hold and prevent you from hurting yourself. Push into the floor with your arms. This will be more of a stretch than anything else for you at first. Arms stay straight, and inch by inch you want to walk your shoulders past your hands. When you get the bottom of your chest over your hands you will probably feel a LOT of tension in your forearms! Here I'd suggest that you do 60s and keep working on that. It will help keep your wrists and hands strong and flexible. You may never make any more progress in distance, but the conditioning effect will be tremendous over time! When you get to that point you should start over with your fingers pointing straight out to the sides. This is much harder on the bicep tendon. Get to where you can do at least a 30s hold, and work that until you get to 60s. This will not be a big lean at first, and that's fine. Don't try to be cool with this! This is a great way to do very low-level work in the bicep tendon and it will slowly stretch the bicep muscles, strengthen the tendon, and strengthen the other muscles and tendons around the inner elbow.

You can do this every day or just every workout day, it doesn't matter much. I'd say 5 days a week, personally, maybe 6 later on if you think you need it. Remember, this must be a perfect 60s hold with no pain! Progress will be slow, but this will accelerate your bicep tendon conditioning by controlling the level of tension more precisely.

The reverse push up is your heels and palms on the floor, fingers pointing away from your heels, stomach to the ceiling,arms legs and body straight. When you do this, move backwards so that your shoulders are past your palms. At first, just having your wrists under your shoulders may be enough. Build up to 60s. Points of form: Do not press into the floor with your fingers, try to pull the back of your hand up towards your forearm the whole time. Muscle reflexes will take care of the pressure needed to maintain the hold and prevent you from hurting yourself. Push into the floor with your arms. You want to try and raise your chest to the ceiling! This means you'll have your shoulder blades fully retracted and depressed AND you'll be pushing down into the floor with them! It's weird, but you'll figure it out. Your back should be slightly arched, this is not a hollow body exercise.The arch should be the whole back, not just the lower back. You will have to squeeze with your butt. When you get to 60s, start working on moving your shoulders back past your hands. Go 1 cm at a time if you need to! Take it slow. What this does is lengthen the wrist flexors and build up the wrist and hand tendons. Take this nice and slow, you should feel some pressure but no pain.

Slizzardman I can't thank you enough, your advice is always helping me. Unfortunately I won't be touching the WOD's until I build a good base with the FSP's, some of the WOD's seem out of my league and I want to have a solid base before I try them!

Also it's awesome how your connective tissues and bones remodel themselves to meet the demands of training! It's amazing how the human body works and adapts!

Today I took your advice on starting the handstands, and I could finally get a wall handstand by kicking up! I was very satisfied with myself as it was one of my long term goals being able to hold a perfect handstand by kicking up, I am very happy right now . I managed to get 3 x 10 seconds of wall handstand due to not being used to being in a handstand yet (I ditched the headstands now ).

Also I will incorporate your planche leans in my warm-up! I saw your video awhile ago, long before I joined this forum, and I could tell you're a really cool guy, your instructions were clear and concise!

Another thing, about the reverse push-up. Since I am already working on head bridges (one in "Convict Conditioning" where you do the dynamic version by pushing up into a regular bridge from a head bridge), would it be enough to replace reverse push-ups, as I read your description and googled some pictures/videos and it looked very similar if not the same! Also when I start the tuck planche (after several months of frog stand/advanced frog stand of course ), can I use my push-up bars instead of balancing on my wrists? It would take a lot of stress from my wrists, but I am wondering if this would hinder my wrist from being conditioned?

You can definitely become a conditioning coach Slizzardman, your instructions are very clear, you would be a great teacher.

Blairbob, thanks for the handstand/headstand advice! I will definitely incorporate your techniques when I am working towards a free handstand (that goal looks quite a distance from now :? )

Thanks Slizzardman and Blairbob! Wish you guys the best.

Erik, I am afraid I cannot answer your questions with the correct answers, as I am still a beginner and I lack first hand experience with a lot of gymnastic holds, but I would recommend purchasing Coach's "Building a Gymnastic Body" book if you don't already have it, it will contain almost everything you need to know! However in my humble opinion, I would keep your straddled back lever as it is for now, as Slizzardman mentioned the Bicep tendon takes quite awhile to adapt. For you front lever, I would start extending the legs into a straddled front lever slowly (if I was in your place, I'm still on the tuck FL ). For you frogstands, you should probably start working on the advanced frog stand before moving onto the tuck planche!

Hope my suggestion helped, lol

Best Regards

No worries, I should have been more succint. I do have BtGB, been training with it for a year, had the straddled back for about three months, not entirely certain whether my straddled front is acceptable to use as a work set, and I meant advanced frogstand.

In short, >.<

That being said, I must now add my thank to the Man Currently Known As Slizzard for his great advice. Unfortunately, as good as the teaching is, I'm a bit of a lousy student.

Thanks again for all the advice good sir, and good luck with your work, CG.

CalisthenicGod said:

Slizzardman I can't thank you enough, your advice is always helping me. Unfortunately I won't be touching the WOD's until I build a good base with the FSP's, some of the WOD's seem out of my league and I want to have a solid base before I try them!

FSP has very little to do with your ability to perform WODs. Very few people here are performing the WODs exactly as prescribed, nearly all of us, including me, have to scale down elements. It doesn't matter how far from the prescribed WOD you are, scale to your level and do them! I won't spend any time trying to convince you. You'll either do it or not lol!

Another thing, about the reverse push-up. Since I am already working on head bridges (one in "Convict Conditioning" where you do the dynamic version by pushing up into a regular bridge from a head bridge), would it be enough to replace reverse push-ups, as I read your description and googled some pictures/videos and it looked very similar if not the same! Also when I start the tuck planche (after several months of frog stand/advanced frog stand of course ), can I use my push-up bars instead of balancing on my wrists? It would take a lot of stress from my wrists, but I am wondering if this would hinder my wrist from being conditioned?

Well, for one thing, there's nothing in CC that even comes close to simulating the effects of the reverse push up. The reverse push up is specific preparation for a number of gymnastic techniques. It will help tremendously with wrist conditioning, and you will start to learn how to press with your triceps and scapular muscles. That is something that nothing else will teach your body.

I would also do at least one headstand as warm up, just to keep the neck conditioning. Headstands are also good for body line work and teaching your back and hips the beginning of straight arm handstand presses. I'd keep working on the bridge and head bridge, eventually you'll be able to do head bridge without hands, which is great for the neck, but that's just me. At the very least, work on the bridge. Don't replace it, do bridge AND reverse push up.

You WILL be handicapping yourself if you completely switch to paralletes or push up bars for your tuck planches. That's NOT a good idea. Now, you could certainly do half of your work on there, but you'd be a massive fool to not spend at least half of each planche session training on the floor. You will absolutely sacrifice a TON of wrist conditioning if you leave the floor, and it WILL limit your long-term progress. Do NOT start tuck planche until you achieve 60s advanced frog, perfectly held. That means no shaking, no instability. Just being able to squeeze out 60s isn't good enough. If it isn't perfect, you will still gain strength in the position until it is perfect for a few weeks at least. Then, when you go to the tuck, you should find that you have a good hold to begin with. This requires patience, but your choices are patience or injury, so is that really even a choice?

You can definitely become a conditioning coach Slizzardman, your instructions are very clear, you would be a great teacher.

Thanks Slizzardman and Blairbob! Wish you guys the best.

Well, I'm working on it. I still occasionally come across as rude and insulting when I don't mean to be.

Erik said:

I can hold a straddled back lever for twenty seconds, and I hold that for three sets. Don't plan on moving forward for a few months. Front lever is a 90 90 adv tuck, again three sets of twenty, but I've been on them for a really long time. Should I up it to thirty seconds, or up the amount of sets? Same deal with the frogstands, I've reached a thirty second hold easy, but only a five second tuck PL, so I want to up the sets to six.

Now, as far as the L-sits go, I've been training the thing ever since I first stumbled upon Jim's site (Beastskills), so thirty second holds are no problem (but adv L's are done on PBs, cuz my arms are too short and my butt hits the ground).

Well, 3x20s is great for straddle BL! If I were you, I'd throw in an extra set every week until you're doing 5-6 sets. Same for your FL. I'd up the volume first, and then add hold time one or two sets at a time. Is your BL palms down? Either way, if you haven't been working on German hangs, you should start!

Again, advanced frogstand should be held longer. Build up your volume to 5-6 sets first, and then add a few seconds to your first 2-3 sets. Personally, I think it's ideal to build up to 3-4 sets of 45-60s. Adv frog should be really easy, it is very low intensity compared to even tuck planche. I have been doing 8 sets of 30s, 3x per week, with absolutely no problems. I am also using planche leans 4-5 days a week for 60s holds.

If you can do multiple sets of proper advanced L-sit on PB and multiple 30s+ L sit on floor, you're doing pretty well! If you haven't already, it's definitely time for you to start straddle L and the manna progressions! That's what I think, anyhow. You should try putting some thick books under your hands and trying to do adv L on the floor! It's better conditioning for the wrists on the floor.

FL is somewhat different than BL, since there is no tendon that is being placed in a critical position like the biceps tendon during PL and BL. Connective tissue is still a concern, but you can go at this one with more than 50% intensity, at least in my experience. I have found that going for holds around 80% of max hold time works well for me, but you may want to build up to that. I was doing 7 sets of 30s slightly past 90/90 for the first 4 sets, 90/90 for set 5, and slightly less for sets 6 and 7. I kept the same hold time and each time I trained I tried to get all the rest of the sets as close to the first set's position as I could, until all sets were in the same position. I could hold a 10-15s straddle FL and a 2-3s full lay, so it was definitely working. I saw improvements on a weekly basis. I was doing that 3x per week due to the higher intensity, I felt that 4x would be too much. I believe that FL is more of a strength move, and requires a lower level of connective tissue conditioning compared to the straight arm work, and I never had any problems with it. The high volume is important, that's the biggest thing I would take away from what I've written.

Thanks for the reply Slizzardman!

FSP has very little to do with your ability to perform WODs. Very few people here are performing the WODs exactly as prescribed, nearly all of us, including me, have to scale down elements. It doesn't matter how far from the prescribed WOD you are, scale to your level and do them! I won't spend any time trying to convince you. You'll either do it or not lol!

I will probably stick with the basics for now as I do not want to complicate my training, but I will definitely try out the WOD's in the future!

Well, for one thing, there's nothing in CC that even comes close to simulating the effects of the reverse push up. The reverse push up is specific preparation for a number of gymnastic techniques. It will help tremendously with wrist conditioning, and you will start to learn how to press with your triceps and scapular muscles. That is something that nothing else will teach your body.

It would be awesome if you could make a video on the reverse push up! I googled it again and it basically looked like a dynamic bridge from the videos I found. Your description before was very clear, but it would be great if I could have a visual reference!

I would also do at least one headstand as warm up, just to keep the neck conditioning. Headstands are also good for body line work and teaching your back and hips the beginning of straight arm handstand presses. I'd keep working on the bridge and head bridge, eventually you'll be able to do head bridge without hands, which is great for the neck, but that's just me. At the very least, work on the bridge. Don't replace it, do bridge AND reverse push up.

I will definitely use headstands and head bridges as warm-ups before working on the handstands and regular bridges, I will keep the reverse bridges as warm-up and planche leans as you suggested, although a video on the reverse push-ups would be great!

You WILL be handicapping yourself if you completely switch to paralletes or push up bars for your tuck planches. That's NOT a good idea. Now, you could certainly do half of your work on there, but you'd be a massive fool to not spend at least half of each planche session training on the floor. You will absolutely sacrifice a TON of wrist conditioning if you leave the floor, and it WILL limit your long-term progress. Do NOT start tuck planche until you achieve 60s advanced frog, perfectly held. That means no shaking, no instability. Just being able to squeeze out 60s isn't good enough. If it isn't perfect, you will still gain strength in the position until it is perfect for a few weeks at least. Then, when you go to the tuck, you should find that you have a good hold to begin with. This requires patience, but your choices are patience or injury, so is that really even a choice?

Thanks for clarifying this! I will definitely stay away from push-up bars for planche progressions, and most definitely I will not rush the planche progressions either! The only thing I use the push-up bars for is the L-sit (is it alright if I do?), and I use a small bench for my straddle L's.

Well, I'm working on it. I still occasionally come across as rude and insulting when I don't mean to be.

It is difficult to speculate the mood over the internet, however you are far from rude!

Best regards, and I will be looking forward to the reverse push-up video

LOL! Well, I'll make one pretty soon. I'm going to make a few videos, one on some of the basic isometrics and how to use them, one on the loaded stretches, and I'm not sure what else.

slizzardman said:

Well, 3x20s is great for straddle BL! If I were you, I'd throw in an extra set every week until you're doing 5-6 sets. Same for your FL. I'd up the volume first, and then add hold time one or two sets at a time. Is your BL palms down? Either way, if you haven't been working on German hangs, you should start!

Again, advanced frogstand should be held longer. Build up your volume to 5-6 sets first, and then add a few seconds to your first 2-3 sets. Personally, I think it's ideal to build up to 3-4 sets of 45-60s. Adv frog should be really easy, it is very low intensity compared to even tuck planche. I have been doing 8 sets of 30s, 3x per week, with absolutely no problems. I am also using planche leans 4-5 days a week for 60s holds.

If you can do multiple sets of proper advanced L-sit on PB and multiple 30s+ L sit on floor, you're doing pretty well! If you haven't already, it's definitely time for you to start straddle L and the manna progressions! That's what I think, anyhow. You should try putting some thick books under your hands and trying to do adv L on the floor! It's better conditioning for the wrists on the floor.

FL is somewhat different than BL, since there is no tendon that is being placed in a critical position like the biceps tendon during PL and BL. Connective tissue is still a concern, but you can go at this one with more than 50% intensity, at least in my experience. I have found that going for holds around 80% of max hold time works well for me, but you may want to build up to that. I was doing 7 sets of 30s slightly past 90/90 for the first 4 sets, 90/90 for set 5, and slightly less for sets 6 and 7. I kept the same hold time and each time I trained I tried to get all the rest of the sets as close to the first set's position as I could, until all sets were in the same position. I could hold a 10-15s straddle FL and a 2-3s full lay, so it was definitely working. I saw improvements on a weekly basis. I was doing that 3x per week due to the higher intensity, I felt that 4x would be too much. I believe that FL is more of a strength move, and requires a lower level of connective tissue conditioning compared to the straight arm work, and I never had any problems with it. The high volume is important, that's the biggest thing I would take away from what I've written.

Firstly, thanks for the reply! Yeah, I do palms down on my back lever, and surprisingly, the bicep tendon doesn't bother me anymore. What does bother me though, is my wrists. Maybe it's because I didn't start out with the German Hangs, maybe I just have weak wrists (the pain is less on the rings), but for whatever reason, that's the spot that hurts...also, I don't think I'm using my lats, but it's hard to tell.

As far as volume goes, does that mean up my FL work to about 6 sets of 20 (lately they've been suffering, no clue why), like the suggestion for the BL? For the adv frogstands, I'm probably gonna go back to doing them on the floor, fingers forward (or 45 degrees, that seems to work best for me), and that could take a little longer (but like you, and the pain from before, taught me, if you hurry, your elbows want to explode). Doing them on the parallets may have been responsible for the shin splint-like pain in my left forearm lately (resulting in a frustrating decision to take a week from upper body training to let it heal).

Thanks for the comment on the L-sits! I've been training for the straddle L and manna as well (manna for longer, lack of flexibility discouraged me from the straddle), and surprisingly, I can hold a (what I think is) proper bent leg middle split hold (on parallets of course) for three sets of twenty seconds. I can't really measure, but I can get at least a few inches of elevation off of there, but, as with the frogstand/PL, I forsee grave frustration when I get to MSL due to hand position. Fingers to the side seems to work, but if fingers back is the way to go, would simply practicing leans on the floor help that?

There's only one other question I feel I need to ask, and Slizzardman seems to be the local expert on the subject, but I really need some advice on prehab work.

Thanks once again everyone, for all the help you've given me and everyone else here.

Erik said:

Firstly, thanks for the reply! Yeah, I do palms down on my back lever, and surprisingly, the bicep tendon doesn't bother me anymore. What does bother me though, is my wrists. Maybe it's because I didn't start out with the German Hangs, maybe I just have weak wrists (the pain is less on the rings), but for whatever reason, that's the spot that hurts...also, I don't think I'm using my lats, but it's hard to tell.

For wrist issues, I suggest you do the following: Wrist pre-hab, reverse push up, and thick bar work. For wrist pre-hab, you need to stretch well and do higher rep work with the wrist, preferably with a wrist roller, but rice bucked work will do as well. You take a 5 gallon bucket, around 2 bucks at home depot, and fill it about 2/3 with rice. Put your hand in wrist deep, and with your fingers together do circles in both directions, flex the wrist towards the forearm , extend the wrist back towards the back of the forearm, and twist from side to side like a corkscrew. I'd say a few sets of 10-20s of each of those with each hand will be plenty, and you should do that every workout day or 4-5 times a week, whichever is more. I'd suggest doing these as part of your warm up, probably near the beginning. I will be doing a video soon on the reverse push up, so stay tuned for that. There are also descriptions floating around. Finally, thick bar work. A piece of 2" or 2.5" pvc is ideal. You can either make handles and snap them onto a bar or you can just use a section of pvc and some resistance bands! Those are the two most practical ways to do thick bar work. I'd suggest you do bicep curls and deadlifts. For the deadlift, the hold is really the important part, so you could just cut two 6" sections and hang weight off of them, like a few old milk jugs full of water. You don't even have to walk, just hold for time. Each milk jug is around 9 lbs when full of water. That's probably your cheapest and best solution. You can do your bicep curls with this set up as well.

I have found in my training that it isn't the forearms but weakness or lack of conditioning in the hands and fingers that causes most wrist pain like what you're describing. Make this a staple at the end of your workouts and that pain should start going away fairly quickly.

As far as volume goes, does that mean up my FL work to about 6 sets of 20 (lately they've been suffering, no clue why), like the suggestion for the BL? For the adv frogstands, I'm probably gonna go back to doing them on the floor, fingers forward (or 45 degrees, that seems to work best for me), and that could take a little longer (but like you, and the pain from before, taught me, if you hurry, your elbows want to explode). Doing them on the paralletes may have been responsible for the shin splint-like pain in my left forearm lately (resulting in a frustrating decision to take a week from upper body training to let it heal).

With FL it's hard to tell, because there are a few possible weak spots. How is your body lever? If you can hold a body lever just off the ground with your body hollow for as long as you can hold your FL sets, you're in good shape. Otherwise that could be holding you back!

It is also possible that your lats need some strength, in which case your pull up work should start to be weighted. Whenever there's pull up sets on the WODS, assuming you do them, once you're past the 5x5 you should be working with added weight. I firmly believe that my strength in weighted pull ups is half of what allowed me to achieve a full lay FL after around 4-5 months. The other half was body lever work, which by chance I was already quite strong in. I had been doing them on and off for years!

Thanks for the comment on the L-sits! I've been training for the straddle L and manna as well (manna for longer, lack of flexibility discouraged me from the straddle), and surprisingly, I can hold a (what I think is) proper bent leg middle split hold (on parallets of course) for three sets of twenty seconds. I can't really measure, but I can get at least a few inches of elevation off of there, but, as with the frogstand/PL, I forsee grave frustration when I get to MSL due to hand position. Fingers to the side seems to work, but if fingers back is the way to go, would simply practicing leans on the floor help that?

Reverse push up work is the way to go. Done the way I show, it will help you build up your wrists and develop the pressing strength in the scapular region and the triceps! I am developing it because I like the extra strength and it's just going to make life easier when I get to true MSH!

For the straddle, work on your pike and straddle pike flexibility! Weighted pike stretches will help you a LOT in both positions. If you like, I can explain how to use that for maximum benefit. It will be a little bit time consuming, but not too bad and once you've gotten good flexibility in a few months you won't have to do as much to maintain it.

There's only one other question I feel I need to ask, and Slizzardman seems to be the local expert on the subject, but I really need some advice on prehab work.

Thanks once again everyone, for all the help you've given me and everyone else here.

Weeeell, I'll have to reserve the title of local expert for Coach lol! I have learned a lot, to be sure. A good padawan, am I!

I mentioned some basics for wrists earlier. There is a series of wrist push ups that has been mentioned a while back, so I will make a video on that soon. That's the other one I was trying to remember! It won't have everything there is, because that's for Liquid Steel™, but I will cover the basics.

Definitely gotta start doing the rice buckets…deadlifts are a good idea, those’d probably work good with the wrist pushups, eh?

Well, I’ve never tried holding a body lever at the bottom, but I’m pretty good at them (three easy sets of five). I’m going to start the WOD’s once I’m back in university, but my pull ups aren’t that bad. One rep max of 70lbs on my waist, and I can do the L-sit pull ups for three sets of five.

I think I was already doing reverse pushups as something to help out with posterior deltoids and manna work. Is it the same position as the AG walks? And yeah, any advice on how to build flexibility without seriously hurting yourself would be great!

Thanks again, Slizzard my man! As always a true wealth of information!

Same position as AG walks, yes. There are two positions for that, actually, the other is a push up support, but stomach facing up as in Coach's video is what we want for reverse push up.

Your pull ups sound like they need some work. I am not being insulting, so please don't take it that way! I think that some specific lat strength work will accelerate your FL, because you really do need to be very strong, but you're right: your pull ups are more than decent. Keep doing the GB pull up work, but start weighting it. Are you doing one set per progression as a warm up? It's important to do that in order to completely work your back.

Same with body lever. Reps don't really matter because in FL you're stuck at horizontal! Keep doing your reps, but throw in some horizontal isometrics as well! You may be surprised how hard they are. Despite being big, I am pretty sure I easily won our contest at the seminars for this. I do believe this has a lot to do with my FL ability.

Also, just so you know, once you're at 90/90 progress DOES come slower, because each inch of leg extension adds more resistance than the last since each degree reduces your leverage more than the last.

You've got a really solid base. I think that keeping a set total time, like say 120 seconds, and alternating every so often between 4 sets of 30s and 6 sets of 20s could help a lot. The shorter holds can be used sort of like a rest week, to maintain your gains while you heal, and the longer holds could be used as more strength/endurance work.

You could also alternate between doing 4x30s at 90/90 and doing 4x20 at like 100/100. Know what I mean? That's more of an intensity cycling plan, and I have used both that and doing different hold times with great success.

Don’t worry about insulting me, good sir. I would much MUCH rather be told of something I need to work on than be left in the dark to be spared feelings. What I’ve been doing so far has been L wide grips (mixing the different wide grips), tuck Yewkis, tuck FL pulls and FL rows in a flat tuck (I use a straight bar for this. It’s pretty hard to get the knees past the bar initially).

So to do each set, would that be straight from the negatives, jumping, etc, all the way to the L wides? Or just from a regular pull up? After that, working weighted pull ups (which’ll be fun considering sometimes I can only use a belt at my ankles), should those be at the hardest variation as well?

I guess in regards to the FL, I was kinda frustrated because last Christmas I was doing single leg extended sets, but upon reflection my back was probably curved, so it may have been for the best I stepped back.

So, to recap on all that I’ve learned over the last two days (it was a heckuva lot);

back lever sets up to six but build slowly

FL increase volume to six sets and bring intensity up to 30s

PL work on adv frogstands on the ground switching hand position

Body levers stick in isometric holds as well

Pull ups add weight and work all variations

Work German Hangs at 3x30

Work deadlifts and bicep curls to help forearm strength

Prehab like crazy

Stretch and be patient, because if you’re not you’ll get hurt and then your goals will take even longer to achieve.

Do the WOD’s, because after doing a few, I realized they’re awesome.

If I’ve mixed any of these up, feel free to give me a virtual smack upside the head.

As an afterthought, I was curious about the ring handstands. Not so much getting into them, but when to do them. The only places I can are either above cement, or right behind a leg press machine, so naturally I’m terrified to try. If it were softer or higher, no problem. Should I wait until I have a better venue to practice?

Thanks again. ^^

Erik, are you doing the ring handstands at home or a gym? If you're at home, get some pillows or couch pillows. An old mattress or futon works awesome. If you're at the gym, go layer a bunch of yoga mats.

Despite being big, I am pretty sure I easily won our contest at the seminars for this.

For what hold. That's sounds like a challenge. An Ent vs Gimli.

Body lever. I have nothing for anyone on L-sit lol!