Injury while doing the "Single Leg Straddle Front Lever"

Hi,

In the Core section:
I lost my pulling power as I transitioned from "1/2 Front Lever" to "Single Leg Straddle Front Lever".

I completed the  A22 "1/2 Front Lever" successfully, then I transitioned to A23 "Single Leg Straddle Front Lever" and I could do the 3x2sec easily. 48 hour after that the 5x2sec wasn't easy in fact I couldn't complete because lack of power. Then I felt a bit of exhausted then. 48 hours later I couldn't do single Rope Climb (previously I was doing rope climb at maximum level and intensity from the beginning of september 2022)

In my right Latissimus Dorsi I saw a soft muscle tissue, attaching a screen shot

In the core section I can't even do the A15 series properly. I am a bit scared of what could have happened.

Any hint idea what could have happened.
Another question:
- How should I schedule the trainings, for example: one day the pulling rope climb, then the next day the core? but core also works on the Latissimus Dorsi like the rope climb. Shouldn't I wait 48 hours for the same muscle group to rest?

14 hours ago, Botond Orban said:

Hi,

In the Core section:
I lost my pulling power as I transitioned from "1/2 Front Lever" to "Single Leg Straddle Front Lever".

I completed the  A22 "1/2 Front Lever" successfully, then I transitioned to A23 "Single Leg Straddle Front Lever" and I could do the 3x2sec easily. 48 hour after that the 5x2sec wasn't easy in fact I couldn't complete because lack of power. Then I felt a bit of exhausted then. 48 hours later I couldn't do single Rope Climb (previously I was doing rope climb at maximum level and intensity from the beginning of september 2022)

In my right Latissimus Dorsi I saw a soft muscle tissue, attaching a screen shot

In the core section I can't even do the A15 series properly. I am a bit scared of what could have happened.

Any hint idea what could have happened.
Another question:
- How should I schedule the trainings, for example: one day the pulling rope climb, then the next day the core? but core also works on the Latissimus Dorsi like the rope climb. Shouldn't I wait 48 hours for the same muscle group to rest?

With good probability you are suffering from local muscles fatigue. Passing from 3x2'' to 5x2'' in the same week with also another strength progression in the same week can be a problem. my suggestion at this stage of development is to have a progression week over week and not in the same week.   i take for granted that you are dealoading every 3-4 weeks. if not you should.

unfortunately it not enough to talk about 48 hours of rest because this type of consideration doesnt' take into account the amuont of work in a session. a solid heavy session can require even more and the main problem of strength training is that no matter if you feel something easy (like the front lever..because also 3x1@90% of 1rm can be felt easy)...the brain will never tell you that it is easy...when the tank of neural energy is empty..it is too late.

generally speaking, putting heavy session of monday for front lever and heavy session for rope climbing on friday is a good day...ligth sessions for both can be implemented with half sets of the heavy one.

On 2/3/2023 at 9:53 AM, Alessandro Mainente said:

With good probability you are suffering from local muscles fatigue. Passing from 3x2'' to 5x2'' in the same week with also another strength progression in the same week can be a problem. my suggestion at this stage of development is to have a progression week over week and not in the same week.   i take for granted that you are dealoading every 3-4 weeks. if not you should.

unfortunately it not enough to talk about 48 hours of rest because this type of consideration doesnt' take into account the amuont of work in a session. a solid heavy session can require even more and the main problem of strength training is that no matter if you feel something easy (like the front lever..because also 3x1@90% of 1rm can be felt easy)...the brain will never tell you that it is easy...when the tank of neural energy is empty..it is too late.

generally speaking, putting heavy session of monday for front lever and heavy session for rope climbing on friday is a good day...ligth sessions for both can be implemented with half sets of the heavy one.

Thank You for the advice @Alessandro Mainente  Will keep it from now on

On 2/4/2023 at 6:39 PM, Botond Orban said:

Thank You for the advice @Alessandro Mainente  Will keep it from now on

let me know how do you find this organization..

On 2/6/2023 at 10:33 AM, Alessandro Mainente said:

let me know how do you find this organization..

It makes sense what You've said.

What is sure until now:
- I've got shoulder impingement in my right shoulder. (MR scans)
- After 4 week my pulling power came back to the point that I can very easily make 1 muscle up without feeling anything to be hard to execute. I am not forcing any harder movement right now.

Then I decided to regress to half (logarithmic search algorithm) from the old max and focus on the 100% correct technique with pushing/pulling to rewire the neural muscle connections like moving/bending my elbow parallel with each other all the time while pushing, 10sec negative pulling etc.
 

21 minutes ago, Botond Orban said:

It makes sense what You've said.

What is sure until now:
- I've got shoulder impingement in my right shoulder. (MR scans)
- After 4 week my pulling power came back to the point that I can very easily make 1 muscle up without feeling anything to be hard to execute. I am not forcing any harder movement right now.

Then I decided to regress to half (logarithmic search algorithm) from the old max and focus on the 100% correct technique with pushing/pulling to rewire the neural muscle connections like moving/bending my elbow parallel with each other all the time while pushing, 10sec negative pulling etc.

Also I visited 3 Orthopedic doctors:
- One said that it is because of overload and He "is not competent" (literally, no joking, he admited that he can't help, his knowledge is not enouth) I should rest then restart the progressions.
- The seconds said that I have some infraspinatus injury, and I should rest because It could worsen, I should go to physio to get rid of the impingement.
- The third involved a 4rt othoped and they were examining me for about 1 hour doing all sort of tests and they concluded that they don't know for sure because it is not like in case of an old man where the diagnosis is simple. My shoulder seems to work perfectly healthy, they said I have shoulder impingement but that is caused by a weak serratus anterior on the right side and I should strengthen the serratus on the right side because I have winging scapula and that is causing the impingement, but the diagnosis is not straightforward they don't know for sure, 100%.

I also felt the scapula winging while was doing the planche progressions a bit and was unsatisfied with it. Therefore I decided to take from the half of the progressions and rewire/reexercise/restrengthen the planche lane. (before I was at "C11: Open Planche", but at second 23rd the winging started to appear so I couldn't hold it perfectly up to 30 secsx5)

Also what I did wrong on 19th of January is that I made some swinging dips on the pbars but as I showed the movement to my ex trainer He immediately pointed out that I made it in such a way that I super overloaded my arms and shoulders. Basically I started the dip without waiting to get to the lowest point in swing I started the dip middle of the descend, that was like start to dip while being in a free fall. I felt that was super hard, maybe that overloaded something also in my biceps as well.

26 minutes ago, Botond Orban said:

Also I visited 3 Orthopedic doctors:
- One said that it is because of overload and He "is not competent" (literally, no joking, he admited that he can't help, his knowledge is not enouth) I should rest then restart the progressions.
- The seconds said that I have some infraspinatus injury, and I should rest because It could worsen, I should go to physio to get rid of the impingement.
- The third involved a 4rt othoped and they were examining me for about 1 hour doing all sort of tests and they concluded that they don't know for sure because it is not like in case of an old man where the diagnosis is simple. My shoulder seems to work perfectly healthy, they said I have shoulder impingement but that is caused by a weak serratus anterior on the right side and I should strengthen the serratus on the right side because I have winging scapula and that is causing the impingement, but the diagnosis is not straightforward they don't know for sure, 100%.

I also felt the scapula winging while was doing the planche progressions a bit and was unsatisfied with it. Therefore I decided to take from the half of the progressions and rewire/reexercise/restrengthen the planche lane. (before I was at "C11: Open Planche", but at second 23rd the winging started to appear so I couldn't hold it perfectly up to 30 secsx5)

Also what I did wrong on 19th of January is that I made some swinging dips on the pbars but as I showed the movement to my ex trainer He immediately pointed out that I made it in such a way that I super overloaded my arms and shoulders. Basically I started the dip without waiting to get to the lowest point in swing I started the dip middle of the descend, that was like start to dip while being in a free fall. I felt that was super hard, maybe that overloaded something also in my biceps as well.

Hey Botond...wht exercise or hat range of motion are causing pain?

1 hour ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

Hey Botond...wht exercise or hat range of motion are causing pain?

As I am doing handstands the last 5-10 degrees of RangeOfMotion  as I am positioning my arms to be in line with my trunk and right before totally elevating the scapula in my right shoulders around the top of the trapesius or maybe the supraspinatus I feel a very firm discomfort.
I feel the same at the very bottom part as I am lowering down myself from the pull-ups on ring down to the bottom, at the very bottom part, as my arm-shoulder and scapula aligns to be in line with my trunk, right before that moment there is a discomfort, and as my shoulder reaches a certain top position the (confortable position) the pain/discomfort dissapears, but it is like not even a pain but rather a discomfort which radiates through my back-top deep part of the shoulder.

2 hours ago, Botond Orban said:

As I am doing handstands the last 5-10 degrees of RangeOfMotion  as I am positioning my arms to be in line with my trunk and right before totally elevating the scapula in my right shoulders around the top of the trapesius or maybe the supraspinatus I feel a very firm discomfort.
I feel the same at the very bottom part as I am lowering down myself from the pull-ups on ring down to the bottom, at the very bottom part, as my arm-shoulder and scapula aligns to be in line with my trunk, right before that moment there is a discomfort, and as my shoulder reaches a certain top position the (confortable position) the pain/discomfort dissapears, but it is like not even a pain but rather a discomfort which radiates through my back-top deep part of the shoulder.

have you ever done clinical test? if yes on what of them are you positive?

3 hours ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

have you ever done clinical test? if yes on what of them are you positive?

What kind of clinical test are You thinking of?
---
2 weeks ago I was at the orthopaedic doctors one of them being a shoulder specialist they performed on me a series of tests at a hospital clinic where they concluded that seratus anterior is weak and that is causing the shoulder impingement but they also said that this case is not straightforward and they can't say even that for sure. That was done in a clinic, if You were thinking to something like that.

Today I tried the ironcross with the dream machine:
From behind:
https://www.icloud.com/photos/#0e173HwBYOfQdCK1M-K7TKj8g
From the front:
https://www.icloud.com/photos/#0866pekHrUm8SewbApBtF5IRw
In the past I could do even 15 iron cross pull ups to support correctly, now I don't have power in my right arm. I feel some weird sensation at the back of my right armpit, also I don't have power to push down my straightened right arm.

16 hours ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

have you ever done clinical test? if yes on what of them are you positive?

One of the orthopedic doctors asked for a lab results based on blood sample and all the values he asked for were within normal range, even the "creatinine".

On 3/3/2023 at 3:36 PM, Botond Orban said:

As I am doing handstands the last 5-10 degrees of RangeOfMotion  as I am positioning my arms to be in line with my trunk and right before totally elevating the scapula in my right shoulders around the top of the trapesius or maybe the supraspinatus I feel a very firm discomfort.
I feel the same at the very bottom part as I am lowering down myself from the pull-ups on ring down to the bottom, at the very bottom part, as my arm-shoulder and scapula aligns to be in line with my trunk, right before that moment there is a discomfort, and as my shoulder reaches a certain top position the (confortable position) the pain/discomfort dissapears, but it is like not even a pain but rather a discomfort which radiates through my back-top deep part of the shoulder.

So it seems more backward than upward. 

you cited also the rings work. can you post here:

- your acctual workout comprised on rings work, i mean sets and reps

- level on foundations 1-4

- level of shoulder mobility like extension and flexion

On 3/4/2023 at 6:43 PM, Alessandro Mainente said:

So it seems more backward than upward. 

you cited also the rings work. can you post here:

- your acctual workout comprised on rings work, i mean sets and reps

- level on foundations 1-4

- level of shoulder mobility like extension and flexion

Level in foundations (I went through all of the progressions even if they were easy in the beginniing)

Lower body: A12 (3rd level 3/4)

Upper body:

- B27 rope climb with lat flies (doing continuously since august last year)

- C11 open planche

-A22, modified planche pushup

Core:

- A23 single leg straddle front lever

- B23 side lever slow negative

- C16 half straddle L single extension

But those were before the incident.

On rings all I did was felge, lsit, shoulder stand, lsit, back lever, and that is it, so nothing hard and complicated. I wasn’t at the level to do anything above level A exercises, even the level A exercises were the simplest.

About shoulder mobility, going to show You some ROM numbers measured while being totally cold: (december data, so before the incident)
- extension: Left: 45  Right: 64
- flexion: Left: 167  Right: 171

And the shoulder extension and flexion in 2021:

- extension: Left: 60  Right: 60
- flexion: Left: 192  Right: 194

12 hours ago, Botond Orban said:

Level in foundations (I went through all of the progressions even if they were easy in the beginniing)

Lower body: A12 (3rd level 3/4)

Upper body:

- B27 rope climb with lat flies (doing continuously since august last year)

- C11 open planche

-A22, modified planche pushup

Core:

- A23 single leg straddle front lever

- B23 side lever slow negative

- C16 half straddle L single extension

 

But those were before the incident.

 

On rings all I did was felge, lsit, shoulder stand, lsit, back lever, and that is it, so nothing hard and complicated. I wasn’t at the level to do anything above level A exercises, even the level A exercises were the simplest.

About shoulder mobility, going to show You some ROM numbers measured while being totally cold: (december data, so before the incident)
- extension: Left: 45  Right: 64
- flexion: Left: 167  Right: 171

And the shoulder extension and flexion in 2021:

- extension: Left: 60  Right: 60
- flexion: Left: 192  Right: 194

 

I need also set and reps, also you have mentioned about iron cross pullout.

1 hour ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

I need also set and reps, also you have mentioned about iron cross pullout.

I’ve done the iron cross pullouts only once a week.

5 series 12 repetitions 1 second at the bottom (iron cross) and one second on the top. Doing this using the dream machine (half bodyweight), and a year ago It was easy so I started to put some more weights on me on the dream machine gradually: 1 kg…. 23kg. So it was half weight (70kg /2=35kg) + 20kg/2=10.0kg 45kg in total. 64% total bodyweight. Then I switched to the iron cross trainer (becaue It gived me freedom and easier setup) and I progressed to 68% ( here I did 5 series 5 reps, 1 second hold top and bottom or varried between the slow 10 second eccentric lower and 1 sec hold at the bottom.).

21 hours ago, Botond Orban said:

I’ve done the iron cross pullouts only once a week.

5 series 12 repetitions 1 second at the bottom (iron cross) and one second on the top. Doing this using the dream machine (half bodyweight), and a year ago It was easy so I started to put some more weights on me on the dream machine gradually: 1 kg…. 23kg. So it was half weight (70kg /2=35kg) + 20kg/2=10.0kg 45kg in total. 64% total bodyweight. Then I switched to the iron cross trainer (becaue It gived me freedom and easier setup) and I progressed to 68% ( here I did 5 series 5 reps, 1 second hold top and bottom or varried between the slow 10 second eccentric lower and 1 sec hold at the bottom.).

 

 

I mean also set of all the other exercises...

but generally speakng i think you are doing too much.

9 hours ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

I mean also set of all the other exercises...

but generally speakng i think you are doing too much.

The sets and repetitions were only those described by the www.gymnasticbodies.com training program.
"but generally speakng i think you are doing too much." I think You are right :/

19 hours ago, Botond Orban said:

The sets and repetitions were only those described by the www.gymnasticbodies.com training program.
"but generally speakng i think you are doing too much." I think You are right :/

The sensation of "having a loss of strenght" especailly in the upper part of the upper body is usually linked to overload in the shuolder-scapulae area.

i asked you the set and rep because if you are doing 6x1 is not the same as doing 5x5.

19 hours ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

The sensation of "having a loss of strenght" especailly in the upper part of the upper body is usually linked to overload in the shuolder-scapulae area.

i asked you the set and rep because if you are doing 6x1 is not the same as doing 5x5.

Here are my sets and reps I was doing:

Upper body:

- B27 rope climb with lat flies (doing continuously since august last year) (max progression, ) 2.5 meters of climbing straddle l sit from the floor, 5 reps  2 minutes pause then 4 sets.

- C11 open planche (4x24 sec hold)

- A22, modified planche pushup (4sets 4 reps)

Core:

- A23 single leg straddle front lever (5 sets of 2 sec hold)

- B23 side lever slow negative ( 5 sets of 5 reps)

- C16 half straddle L single extension ( 5 sets of 2 reps)

For the upper body it was too much for one session and usually I've broken down into 2 parts:
- planche part in the morning
- rope climb to the evening

 

5 hours ago, Botond Orban said:

Here are my sets and reps I was doing:

Upper body:

- B27 rope climb with lat flies (doing continuously since august last year) (max progression, ) 2.5 meters of climbing straddle l sit from the floor, 5 reps  2 minutes pause then 4 sets.

- C11 open planche (4x24 sec hold)

- A22, modified planche pushup (4sets 4 reps)

Core:

- A23 single leg straddle front lever (5 sets of 2 sec hold)

- B23 side lever slow negative ( 5 sets of 5 reps)

- C16 half straddle L single extension ( 5 sets of 2 reps)

For the upper body it was too much for one session and usually I've broken down into 2 parts:
- planche part in the morning
- rope climb to the evening

 

And you do this twice a week?

5 hours ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

And you do this twice a week?

Yes I did twice a week, the upper body.

There were times when My core was tired and I didn't do "B23 side lever slow negative ( 5 sets of 5 reps)" for about 3 weeks. mostly because I felt my shoulders tired. There were also times when: "C16 half straddle L single extension ( 5 sets of 2 reps)" was too hard and I couldn't make progress so It was on hold.
Then there were times when: "C11 open planche (4x24 sec hold)" was too hard and I didn't do it for a few week.

What I could do it regularly twice a week was this:
- B27 rope climb with lat flies (doing continuously since august last year) (max progression, ) 2.5 meters of climbing straddle l sit from the floor, 5 reps  2 minutes pause then 4 sets.
- A22, modified planche pushup (4sets 4 reps) (and previous progressions of pushing)

From this A22 lane with the push moves the A21 and A22 progressions I wasn't progressing linearly. So I was repeating the series a few weeks more untill I could progress but I did those twice a week yes.

On 3/9/2023 at 9:49 AM, Botond Orban said:

Here are my sets and reps I was doing:

Upper body:

- B27 rope climb with lat flies (doing continuously since august last year) (max progression, ) 2.5 meters of climbing straddle l sit from the floor, 5 reps  2 minutes pause then 4 sets.

- C11 open planche (4x24 sec hold)

- A22, modified planche pushup (4sets 4 reps)

Core:

- A23 single leg straddle front lever (5 sets of 2 sec hold)

- B23 side lever slow negative ( 5 sets of 5 reps)

- C16 half straddle L single extension ( 5 sets of 2 reps)

For the upper body it was too much for one session and usually I've broken down into 2 parts:
- planche part in the morning
- rope climb to the evening

 

Well consider that, no matter the the separation between upper and cose etc......

The following exercises can be classified as follow:

Upper body:

- B27 rope climb  SHOULDER DOMINAT (LATS, LONG HEAD TRICEP AND TERES MAJOR)

- C11 open planche (4x24 sec hold)  SHOUDER DOMINANT (DELTOID)

- A22, modified planche pushup (4sets 4 reps) SHOULDER DOMINANT (DELTOID)

Core:

- A23 single leg straddle front lever (5 sets of 2 sec hold) (SHOULDER DOMINANT - LATS, LONH HEAD TRICEP AND TERES MAJOR))

- B23 side lever slow negative ( 5 sets of 5 reps) (SHOULDER DOMINANT - LOWER ARM TRAPS AND DELTOID, UPPER ARM LATS AND TERES MAJOR)

- C16 half straddle L single extension ( 5 sets of 2 reps) - SHOULDER DOMINANT (POSTERIOR DELT AND LONG HEAD TRICEPS)

as you can see you are doing weekly:

pulling

-4 sets for sepe climbing where both sides work. twice a week. 8 sets total  (they are 16 in total because boths sides work)

- 5 sets of front lever ..twice a week, 10 sets. they become 20 if you x side.

- 5 sets side lever twice a week: 10 sets (upper arm)

TOTAL: 36 SETS ON THE PULLING MUSCLES if i consider only 5 set in total for the front lever. if not they are 46.

Pushing

- planche 5 sets twice a week: total 10 sets

- modified pushup 4 sets twice a week: 8 sets

- side lever (lower arm) - 5 sets, twice a week , 10 total

for the pushing muscles basiclly deltoid you are ding 28 sets each week

if you do additional work for rings sets increases even more. generally speaking you cannot recover in a week from 36 sets of pushing or 28 of pulling.

On 3/10/2023 at 3:51 PM, Alessandro Mainente said:

Well consider that, no matter the the separation between upper and cose etc......

The following exercises can be classified as follow:

Upper body:

- B27 rope climb  SHOULDER DOMINAT (LATS, LONG HEAD TRICEP AND TERES MAJOR)

- C11 open planche (4x24 sec hold)  SHOUDER DOMINANT (DELTOID)

- A22, modified planche pushup (4sets 4 reps) SHOULDER DOMINANT (DELTOID)

Core:

- A23 single leg straddle front lever (5 sets of 2 sec hold) (SHOULDER DOMINANT - LATS, LONH HEAD TRICEP AND TERES MAJOR))

- B23 side lever slow negative ( 5 sets of 5 reps) (SHOULDER DOMINANT - LOWER ARM TRAPS AND DELTOID, UPPER ARM LATS AND TERES MAJOR)

- C16 half straddle L single extension ( 5 sets of 2 reps) - SHOULDER DOMINANT (POSTERIOR DELT AND LONG HEAD TRICEPS)

 

as you can see you are doing weekly:

pulling

-4 sets for sepe climbing where both sides work. twice a week. 8 sets total  (they are 16 in total because boths sides work)

- 5 sets of front lever ..twice a week, 10 sets. they become 20 if you x side.

- 5 sets side lever twice a week: 10 sets (upper arm)

TOTAL: 36 SETS ON THE PULLING MUSCLES if i consider only 5 set in total for the front lever. if not they are 46.

 

Pushing

 

- planche 5 sets twice a week: total 10 sets

- modified pushup 4 sets twice a week: 8 sets

- side lever (lower arm) - 5 sets, twice a week , 10 total

for the pushing muscles basiclly deltoid you are ding 28 sets each week

 

if you do additional work for rings sets increases even more. generally speaking you cannot recover in a week from 36 sets of pushing or 28 of pulling.

Thank You for this break down. I was always wondering about these, wanted to do it for myself. Goint to be very cautious with these.

15 hours ago, Botond Orban said:

Thank You for this break down. I was always wondering about these, wanted to do it for myself. Goint to be very cautious with these.

try first to cut in half the set of the second session so:

first session pushing : full sets

first sesion pulling: half sets

second session pulling full sets

second session pushing half sets.

weak skills should be trained first in the session of full volume sets.

On 3/12/2023 at 1:46 PM, Alessandro Mainente said:

try first to cut in half the set of the second session so:

first session pushing : full sets

first sesion pulling: half sets

second session pulling full sets

second session pushing half sets.

 

weak skills should be trained first in the session of full volume sets.

Alessandro I followed Your advice, I am doing rope climb just once a week, left out the flag, also left out the manna series, doing just the front lever, 90 degree push and rope climb and plache series only once a week, and I can recover well.
For example:
- in the rope climb I can lover myself one armed 1.5 sec/ grip
- in the 1 leg front lever I can progressed from 2 sec to 4 sec without problems.

(as side effect the back lever work like a charm (not doing that regularly) )