Advise on KillRoy70 derived WORKOUT - Parts tried 1-2 weeks

Advise on KillRoy70 derived WORKOUT - Parts tried 1-2 weeks

Advise on starting this KillRoy70 Derivative tried 1-2 weeks

After a number of injuries (Shoulders 1, 2, Ribs 3) and with help from a local GB member in India, I started off.

Another real big help was BrainDx's Bodyweight Strength Article, its details, breakdown & the following outline:

1. Warmup / mobility work

2. Skill development - I am guessing this is mostly FSPs

3. Strength/power work - I am guessing this is mostly FBEs

4. Cool down / prehabilitative or rehabilitative work

The KillRoy70 Derivative - Do advise - (QUESTIONS on Warmup, Mobility, Prehab & Cooldown in another thread)

I'd like to be basing the design on mainly KillRoy70 & BrainDx's article: (Please do not suggest WOD).

Note: I've not currently done these or tried them more than a week and that also not full load. I was just testing / trying them out.

I am sharing here my experiences and hesitations with some of the FSPs & FBEs that I've tried for 1-2 weeks but not consistently as a Workout Program. Please read my experiences with them and advise on what I should do for my Workout Program.

DAY Plan - 3 Day or 4 day?

Schedule wise I can do any of the following..

Workout Days: Day A, Day B, Day C

Workout Days: Day A, Day B, Day A, Day B

Workout Days: Day A, Day B, Day C, Day D

FSPs?

Pair antagonistic FSPs (easier on wrist & rest time)?

Do 2 each workout day or 4 each workout day?

Split them up as per DAY-Plan or do them all?

FBEs?

Pair antagonistic FBEs..

1 or 2 pairs of FBEs a day?

1 Push + 1 Pull OR 2 Push + 2 Pull

(2) FSPs

Handstands - Started with facing wall & taking up my legs. Initially, 3-4 ft from wall. Slowly getting closer, but I dont know if I can hold entire Body straight as yet. Do you suggest full HS or should I do the Box Piked Handstand hold where my lower body (from hips) is at 90degree angle (feet on box / support) to my upper body in HS

I was bit afraid of doing it at full vertical due to lack of space in my room. I might start going to a local gym. For a newbie do you suggest Wall Facing or opposite?

My comfortable sets involved 3 x 30s holds.. ofcourse these were not fully vertical or perfect straight body I am guessing. But it was pretty steep angle with hands approx 1-2 ft from Wall & me facing the wall.

L-Sit - Tucks. Tried them out between 2 chairs. I can do this hold. At times it gets unstable if I push my knee /leg joint tuck forward at 90 degrees as shown in BtGB.

Planche - Frog Stand - My ability to hold this varies a lot on - Better on 3rd day or so when i was doing the holds for a few days in a row. Also, I think it was better when I was less FATIGUED by my Warmup thingy.

Straddle L - PB Bent - Tried few times on a chair. Cant hold stable. I think on the whole my abs /hip flexors / legs are not as strong.

Front Lever - Able to do this on the rings just above the ground, but its tough to hold for long so i keep a yoga mat below. Holding my hips in Horizontal is hard, so they end up higher than shoulders if I want to stabilize my lower body.

Back Lever - Had done it long back the day of my shoulder injury (1,2 - linked above). Im doing the mobility stuff now. ANY SPECIFICS that I should do / focus on before I go to this kinda shoulder twister position to PREVENT INJURY.

Manna - Tried once and realized I just cant push hips forward as needed. I think this will have to wait.

(3) FBEs

Day 1 - Horizontal Plane - Pushups & Rows 3 x 5

- I can do these well. Once I think I even did 5 sets of Rows. Will keep it for 6-8 weeks for sure.

Day 2 - Vertical Plane - Curls (Inverted Pullups) & Dips

- I was a little scare of trying Curls for 2 reasons -

1. Upside Down balance 2. Too much strain on shoulder??

- Dips - I havent tried in a while because of working at home. Thinking of starting at Gym.

Day 3 - Vertical Plane - Pullups & HeSPU

- I can do Pullups. Probably 3x4 if spread out / supersetted with a Push exercise for rest.

- Can I should I even be trying HeSPU. I am barely starting to hold HS.

Day 4 - Multi-Plane - Pull & Push

- All the Multiplane work looks rather fancy & difficult to do. What do you recommend?

Can you recommend some Legs / Core work? I tried some SLS negatives & Deck Jump Squats (hopping). I do bunch of Yoga so Supermans, Boat Pose (-ve of superman), Bow pose & others kinda help my core a bit

Please dont suggest following the WOD - I need something stable that I can follow. I have been doing some of these exercises but I havent dont them consistently with a Workout Plan. Just generally trying them out.

What is your WU that is tiring you out so much? You don't want to know mine. Heh.

HS- I prefer stomach2wall for beginners. Box HS with one leg free or angled or accepted and I like both. When they can do them well enough on the wall, stomach facing, is when I am willing to let them start kicking to a HS against the wall typically with a wedge as this allows them to angle the HS. In the meantime they still work a lot of free one legged HS from a lunge on floor.

I hope you are doing the seated leg lifts in pike and straddle in your warmup.

For BL, I would warmup ring supports and german hangs. We do this in our WU, just a few sets. You can simply do the german hang with your feet on the floor and then try to pull your feet off the floor. Generally I prescribe 4 sets, 1 ring support/low ring HS or 3-5 ring swings to skin the cat and hold. It's a great way to WU for us but may be too much you for you now. It also lets us get a pinch more ring work in every day since we don't always work everyday (though we tend to condition on rings everyday).

Wait on Manna. You are not ready for it based on the current L and straddle L progressions you are working. Master those both, then worry about manna.

Day 2 - It's been stated that working the inverted hangs on rings is good for stabilizing the shoulder. If you are wary about doing body curls/inverted pullups in that position, try doing them in a tuck/ball shape or just hold for time. Easier. You could try Box HeSPU. If you could not work these, do Headstands. Or you could work HS wall runs.

Day 4 - Can you work pullovers? If you can't I would work pullup then leg lift as high as you can (probably in tuck) that you feel comfortable. This is ok to do on rings. Not exactly the same, but many people may not be comfortable doing this on a single rail at home or even have access to one. Work the negative muscle-ups by setting the rings to a point where you are on your tip toes but end up in a sort of L-hang with your feet on the floor as an assist.

That leg work sounds good. Personally, I find a lot of the bulk of yoga too easy. I'd just do it at a different time to get in breath work and mobility and such. My warmup includes a lot of basic stuff, but I'm not overly fond of it for 30m-1h. I hate the clothes and would just rather do something else if it gets down to training time/cost. Easily done at home, like taking a walk or jog.

For core work, I would work the body lever and the beginning HLL progressions besides reverse-hyper leg lifts (superman leg lifts. You can work archups off a swiss/yoga ball. You could work wipers on the floor in a tuck if you had to. Work the V-up or situp. Simply do 1 of these exercises through Day 1-4.

I did one day of leg lift to V-hang lower to L, one day of straddle leg lift to V-hang lower to straddle-L (hang). One day of body lever and one day of rotational work (wipers or wipers in a body lever). These were set up with the HLL on day 1 and the other one on day 2. Russian twists may work, I'm just not too fond of them myself. Somewhere in there I should have worked some arch-ups/back extensions or reverse leg lifts (HSLL) or V-up to support. I had to lay off skin the cats as it ended up being too much volume after BL work on my elbows so RLL work made more sense.

Blairbob said:

What is your WU that is tiring you out so much? You don't want to know mine. Heh.

The Warmup, Mobility & Re/Pre Hab work & Questions is in the other thread here (Please do take a look) - Roughly it consists of (takes 45 mins):

- Pre-Yoga Jog Warmup & Joint looesing + Sun Salutations (Suryanamaskars)

- BULK of it consists of links from BrainDx's article consisting of Ido, Slizzard & Coaches videos - THIS TAKES A WHILE

If you guys can help me shorten or split this stuff, it would be great (on that thread).

In THIS thread I am trying to figure out what my MAIN WORKOUT should look like -

Thanks for taking the time to read & advise. Please do so for WU thread too. I will re-read tomorrow as I better sleep now. Its 1 am

My replies are inline. Thanks for such a detailed response. It really helps a lot for a newbie like me to get going in so many areas. I've posted my thoughts / comments / questions inline with yours (in color).

I know the question of whether to practice all the FSPs everyday vs splitting them in 2/3 day cycles is debatable on work load one can handle.

I find that doing a Push FSP cycled with Pull FSP (antagonistic holds) is easier on my wrists & body. I am hoping thats not an issue or does not DAMP the results / effects of FSP training. I am open to suggestions.. esp if doing an FSP all reps one after another with MORE rest makes it better than ALTERNATING with another.

Also, can you guide as to which FSPs would PAIR / ALTERNATE best with each other? Your experience would help here.

Blairbob said:

What is your WU that is tiring you out so much? You don't want to know mine. Heh.

HS- I prefer stomach2wall for beginners. Box HS with one leg free or angled or accepted and I like both. When they can do them well enough on the wall, stomach facing, is when I am willing to let them start kicking to a HS against the wall typically with a wedge as this allows them to angle the HS.

// Great. I'll follow this. When you say "well enough".. Is that in terms of HOLD TIME, Vertical Angle, Hand Distance from Wall?

// Elaborate / Picture of this wedge for HS angling?

In the meantime they still work a lot of free one legged HS from a lunge on floor.

// This I am completely lost in trying to Visualize.. HS is 2 hands.. How is it one legged? PS: Lunge is one 2 legs too. 1 forward and another back..

I hope you are doing the seated leg lifts in pike and straddle in your warmup.

// Not yet, but I will add it as per your advise. Pike I got.. how is the straddle leg lift? I'll youtube for it.. see what i find.

For BL, I would warmup ring supports and german hangs. We do this in our WU, just a few sets. You can simply do the german hang with your feet on the floor and then try to pull your feet off the floor.

// Got to do a bunch of ring support work and will try a very slow Skin the cat / German Hang very carefully. Any particular mobility / stabilization stuff I should do JUST prior to it just to be EXTRA SAFE.. for the first time (in so many years ..as a child used to do skin the cats in the park)? -

I think the first 1/2 trials is the Fear/Ice breaker and once I get a hang of it.. I should be able to do more..

Generally I prescribe 4 sets, 1 ring support/low ring HS or 3-5 ring swings to skin the cat and hold. It's a great way to WU for us but may be too much you for you now. It also lets us get a pinch more ring work in every day since we don't always work everyday (though we tend to condition on rings everyday).

// You actually mean ring HS.. wow! lol! I cant do normal HS - Once I get the first few Skins right I'll try the Swing to Skin & hold.

Wait on Manna. You are not ready for it based on the current L and straddle L progressions you are working. Master those both, then worry about manna.

// Manna. OUT OF SCOPE FOR NOW Not worried at all. I just copied & pasted the FSPs list.

Day 2 - It's been stated that working the inverted hangs on rings is good for stabilizing the shoulder. If you are wary about doing body curls/inverted pullups in that position, try doing them in a tuck/ball shape or just hold for time.

// Probably the way to start. Slow & steady

Easier. You could try Box HeSPU. If you could not work these, do Headstands. Or you could work HS wall runs.

// Will try this. Do clarify the following from the BtGB book -

"Do not allow the shoulder's to "scoot" forward in front of the hands during the ascent , but maintain their position over the hands at all times."

Is there a natural tendency to do so? How do I recognize I might be doing "this" "scoot forward" thing ?

Headstands? Just hold my head on floor with hands?

http://www.5min.com/Video/How-to-Practi ... -102514745

Is this right?

Day 4 - Can you work pullovers? If you can't I would work pullup then leg lift as high as you can (probably in tuck) that you feel comfortable. This is ok to do on rings. Not exactly the same, but many people may not be comfortable doing this on a single rail at home or even have access to one.

// I'll give this a go on my XRs .

Work the negative muscle-ups by setting the rings to a point where you are on your tip toes but end up in a sort of L-hang with your feet on the floor as an assist.

// Will do. I just kinda confused on the underlined. Its well written by hard to visualize what variations of movements my body would go through wrt to the tip toes / L-hang / floor assist. I have seen the negative muscle up video but this sounds kinda different.. probably more assist oriented?

That leg work sounds good. Personally, I find a lot of the bulk of yoga too easy. I'd just do it at a different time to get in breath work and mobility and such. My warmup includes a lot of basic stuff, but I'm not overly fond of it for 30m-1h. I hate the clothes and would just rather do something else if it gets down to training time/cost. Easily done at home, like taking a walk or jog.

- Yoga has been great for me in terms of overall flexibility and stress release. Great relaxer also after workouts.

- Sun Salutations, I find are like Controlled burpees

- Holding the Boat Pose (Naukasana) for 5 long deep breaths has been good for my abs Even if not Gymnastics good as yet.

I might split it up as per your suggestion.

Just jog? Or does your WU consist of stuff.. i.e. burpees etc?

For core work, I would work the body lever and the beginning HLL progressions besides reverse-hyper leg lifts (superman leg lifts. You can work archups off a swiss/yoga ball. You could work wipers on the floor in a tuck if you had to. Work the V-up or situp. Simply do 1 of these exercises through Day 1-4.

I did one day of leg lift to V-hang lower to L, one day of straddle leg lift to V-hang lower to straddle-L (hang).

// Wow! I doubt if I could do those. I am guessing I have poor hip flexors / lower abs (lifting legs / frog stands is tough)

I'll see if I can do any of the following

One day of body lever and one day of rotational work (wipers or wipers in a body lever). These were set up with the HLL on day 1 and the other one on day 2. Russian twists may work, I'm just not too fond of them myself. Somewhere in there I should have worked some arch-ups/back extensions or reverse leg lifts (HSLL) or V-up to support. I had to lay off skin the cats as it ended up being too much volume after BL work on my elbows so RLL work made more sense.

// Great. I'll follow this. When you say "well enough".. Is that in terms of HOLD TIME, Vertical Angle, Hand Distance from Wall?

// Elaborate / Picture of this wedge for HS angling?

Look for gymnastics wedges online. Against the wall it creates an angle of about 15-30 degrees. Also it doesn't mean they are slamming into the wall making noise. Well enough, 20-30s hold preferably.

// This I am completely lost in trying to Visualize.. HS is 2 hands.. How is it one legged? PS: Lunge is one 2 legs too. 1 forward and another back..

One legged means one leg is in the air while the other is barely off the ground

I hope you are doing the seated leg lifts in pike and straddle in your warmup.

// Not yet, but I will add it as per your advise. Pike I got.. how is the straddle leg lift? I'll youtube for it.. see what i find.

http://drillsandskills.com/article/16 Look at bottom under assistance exercises.

// Got to do a bunch of ring support work and will try a very slow Skin the cat / German Hang very carefully. Any particular mobility / stabilization stuff I should do JUST prior to it just to be EXTRA SAFE.. for the first time (in so many years ..as a child used to do skin the cats in the park)? -

I think the first 1/2 trials is the Fear/Ice breaker and once I get a hang of it.. I should be able to do more..

Ehh, not really. Maybe support on a set of dip bars, hang from the bar in an eagle-L grip with both hands or one in L and one in under/overgrip.

// You actually mean ring HS.. wow! lol! I cant do normal HS - Once I get the first few Skins right I'll try the Swing to Skin & hold.

Ring HS with legs on straps. If I set the straps right, our instep will rest on the High Bar and we can use that like the wall to bounce and balance on.

Easier. You could try Box HeSPU. If you could not work these, do Headstands. Or you could work HS wall runs.

// Will try this. Do clarify the following from the BtGB book -

"Do not allow the shoulder's to "scoot" forward in front of the hands during the ascent , but maintain their position over the hands at all times."

Is there a natural tendency to do so? How do I recognize I might be doing "this" "scoot forward" thing ?

If your hips are behind your shoulders, then you are out of HS alignment. If your hip pike angle gets bigger than 90 degrees you'll know it.

Headstands? Just hold my head on floor with hands?

Is this right?

Headstand with hand supported making a triangle base. I didn't look at the video.

Work the negative muscle-ups by setting the rings to a point where you are on your tip toes but end up in a sort of L-hang with your feet on the floor as an assist.

// Will do. I just kinda confused on the underlined. Its well written by hard to visualize what variations of movements my body would go through wrt to the tip toes / L-hang / floor assist. I have seen the negative muscle up video but this sounds kinda different.. probably more assist oriented?

Pretty much same thing with feet on floor.

- Yoga has been great for me in terms of overall flexibility and stress release. Great relaxer also after workouts.

- Sun Salutations, I find are like Controlled burpees

- Holding the Boat Pose (Naukasana) for 5 long deep breaths has been good for my abs Even if not Gymnastics good as yet.

I teach the kids a hollow position first starting out in boat. Then we rock like a boat.

I might split it up as per your suggestion.

Just jog? Or does your WU consist of stuff.. i.e. burpees etc?

Jog-no. Burpees-no. No jumping jacks or jump roping. Sometimes, trampoline warmup by myself or on the long trampoline for the kids.

I do that ring WU then do leg swings, heel/toe raises and SLS negatives or SLS or hold bottom of SLS. Do 40' of lunges, then pike stand to pushup walkouts with pushups and planche leans. Then I do broad jumps across 40'. Then I do kick to HS forward rolls across. Then alternating side cartwheels. Then roll to HS. Then lunge to lunge cartwheels and then do some bridge wall walks.