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Guest Ido Portal

Superman is alive and 19

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Joshua Naterman

Ido will have to do that. I don't actually know, I've never done them.

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Jason Stein
I've seen videos on Youtube of the Cuban Press.

Mark,

This exercise is also known as the muscle snatch; there are videos of it online as well.

best,

jason

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Joshua Naterman

I agree, go search for cuban press on Youtube.

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Razz

upright row->external rotation->overhead press.

I'm wondering if you are supposed to squeeze ur scapulae together or not?

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Joshua Naterman

I believe that during the raise from the arm hang to where the upper arms are at 90 degrees( from the body, making them parallel to the ground), you retract and depress the scapulae. After that, you keep the scapulae depressed and the upper arms parallel to the ground as you rotate the upper arm to raise the bar from your sternum. Edit: Once you get to where your forearms are parallel with the ground you will start pressing the bar overhead. You then lower pressing-style until upper arms are parallel with the ground. From there you will start rotating the bar forward until it touches the bottom of your sternum, and then lower it to straight arm hang. That's one repetition.

Thank you Jason for the info from The Poliquin Principles. I haven't sat down and read my copy from cover to cover, so obviously I missed that. My original description wasn't entirely accurate! :lol:

You would never want to rotate with your scapulae elevated, the acromium would be sticking right in there and pinching stuff, amongst other problems. Try it with just your arms, you'll see exactly what I mean.

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Razz

It definately goes smoother with scapulas retracted, I was just wondering if it should be a main focus or I should just do this exercise how it feels natural. I'm guessing it should be a main focus since the natural ways are often wrong in these joint prep exercises(getting contact to the right muscles and movement patterns), but keen to learn if I'm right.

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Joshua Naterman

I believe it should be the main focus, but we need Ido for anything concrete. I don't know.

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Jason Stein

For the love of pete. Everyone reading this, get yourselves a copy of the Poliquin Principles.

P128-129:

"Cuban Press

Also known as the Muscle Snatch, this exercise is often used by O-lifters to strengthen their shoulders in preparation for lifting record loads in the snatch...This is a very humbling exercise. The best performance I have seen in this exercise was by a 198-lb man who could do 135 lbs for sets of 6—in contrast, this athlete could also perform 5 perfect reps in the Behind-the-Neck Press with 308 lbs.

The starting position for this exercise requires you to hold a barbell with a grip that is wider than shoulder width. Upright row the bar until it reaches the lower portion of your sternum. After pausing momentarily in this position, rotate the arms outward until the forearms are perpendicular to the ground, then finish the movement by pressing the bar overhead To complete the exercise, lower the bar in a pressing style until the upper arms are parallel to the floor, then lower it in a rotary fashion to the lower sternum and finally to the mid-thigh level."

Sets and reps:

Some suggestions? You might try 2-3 cycles each of 3x11-13, followed by 3x8-10, 3x5-7, all at 4020.

I personally like 2-3 days between sessions because otherwise my arms fry out.

Also, I suggest starting with conservative poundages, but then that's me.

best,

jason

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Razz

I have that book, can't believe I missed it. Anyways thanks, still didn't mention the scapula though :mrgreen:

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Jason Stein

It is a muscle snatch, or the third pull of the snatch.

There are one million --- maybe one million and one? --- articles online regarding snatch technique.

Still, all the articles/posts online won't beat getting under the bar and going 3 sets for 13 at 4020 tempo.

best,

jason

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Neal Winkler

I didn't really like the Poliquin Principles book. I thought it was a bit thin for $50.

Anyways, on an unrelated note, I believe that Lyle McDonald stated that Broz's athletes don't compete in drug-tested meets. Any truth to this?

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Joshua Naterman
I didn't really like the Poliquin Principles book. I thought it was a bit thin for $50.

Anyways, on an unrelated note, I believe that Lyle McDonald stated that Broz's athletes don't compete. Any truth to this?

I'm reading it now instead of studying for my two finals tomorrow. Yay to priorities!

I don't care whether Broz's athletes compete or not, because when I see performance like that video I'm like "Yep, that's the shit!" and if none of those guys ever get a medal for it their ability will not be affected in the slightest. I don't know anything about Lyle or the Broz, but at best that's a *shrug* and at worst that's straight up haterade.

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Neal Winkler

I edited my post so it says, "they don't compete in drug-tested meets."

Isn't that fishy?

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Jason Stein

Triangle,

I believe Mendes' feats have been the subject of wonder, not least because at the O-level the American weightlifters are purported to be clean/steroid-free (one of the factors [talent drain, not focusing enough on competitive lifts] that perhaps explains a dearth of international-level success?).

Time and future competition will tell if Mendes will be competitive ... though one thing is for sure — with a 200kg snatch, he's added his name to a short and impressive list of lifters.

Someone named "Lori Hultman" posted the info below on the SS boards:

"Its not really that far of a reach to wonder if the kid is using. He has competed in only ONE tested competition in his career, and in that competition, he bombed out on the snatch with I believe 160kg, then only clean and jerked 185kg, missing the clean at 195kg twice (he only deadlifted the weight). This is, I believe, AFTER posting videos on youtube of a 182.5kg snatch and a 210kg clean and jerk.

AND, when informed that as a USAW member he was subject to out of meet drug testing even if he was not on the NAN program, he promptly dropped his membership.

AND, with the weights he is lifting, he could easily qualify for, and have a good chance of winning, the Junior worlds this year, and the Pan Am championships this year. He is on neither team, because he did not qualify."

best,

jason

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Neal Winkler

Sounds pretty damming.

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Jason Stein

Triangle,

Well, it is a strength sport ... and as with any endurance and speed sport (all of them?), I pretty much presume steroid use at some point.

We'll see if Mendes builds a mega-strength base, then cleans up to join a tested, competitive association in order to make the Olympics.

Though I hear they're extending the tested clean time frame to like 18 months prior to competition, which might negate any strength gains made illicitly. Though who knows?

A 200kg snatch is still a 200kg snatch ... and by a 19 year old ...

best,

j

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Neal Winkler

I understand. It's just that Broz swears his kids aren't juiced. Every coach swears that and they are equally annoying.

Also, going through the "dark times" is much more productive if you're a juicer, no doubt.

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Jason Stein
Broz swears his kids aren't juiced...

Well, maybe they're not? Who really knows?

Wouldn't it be refreshing if a coach just copped to it? Man. "Of course my guys are juiced — how else you think they're squatting 5 wheels for 5 20-plus times a week?"

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Joshua Naterman

All excellent points. Of course, this type of discussion always begs the question: Do the lifters who test clean just use newer drugs?

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Razz

Back the cuban press, Jason I'm not in doubt of how the motion of the exercise looks, at all. I was wondering about the scaps which if it was so obvious you would have answered. I have 'been under the bar'.

About Broz athletes they're amazing, even not-clean I'd say they are still world class. Honestly you must be a bit naive to believe the old Bulgarians weren't drugged when the system was invented. Honesty would be so much better as jason said, but that's something that will never happen.

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Jason Stein
I was wondering about the scaps which if it was so obvious you would have answered. I have 'been under the bar'.

Scaps pass through adduction, elevation, some depression. Not so much protraction.

Key principle: we are strengthening scapular retractors and depressors (rhomboids and middle/lower traps), and the external rotators (teres minor, infraspinatus, posterior delt).

Compare to Scarecrows, Wall Slides.

Even performing this exercise incorrectly will answer a lot of your questions, as well as provide some benefit.

Also for those who bench press, I am curious to see if anyone's benches jump.

My buddy at the gym tested his bench, went through a cycle of similar structural balance exercises (DB external rotation, trap 3 raises, Powell raises), re-tested his bench 2 months later, and his bench jumped 20# without a single session of benching.

As far as Bulgarians, some of the retired guys have been very candid about their 'programs.'

Some critics maintain that Abadjiev's volume, or other high-volume programs, are only possible with exogeneous aid.

True? I don't know; gymnasts for example seem to be able train high-volume, skill-specific work without the use of questionable recovery aids.

best,

jason

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Coach Sommer
True? I don't know; gymnasts for example seem to be able train high-volume, skill-specific work without the use of questionable recovery aids.

It is most certainly true that gymnasts work very hard.

However working hard, and progressively increasing work capacity, is not the same thing as straining to max out turn after turn, after turn, day after day, after day. My athletes do NOT try to establish new PRs every day as Broz claimed is a cornerstone of his philosophy. Nor do I know any other high-level coaches or athletes who do. In my experience, to attempt to do so on a consistent basis is both dangerous and foolhardy.

However attempting such a program would not be without at least some merit; someone has to help orthopedic surgeons make their car payments.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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Guest Ido Portal

Lets not forget we are talking about a sport that is basicly - trying to clean/snatch the heaviest weight you can in a particular day.

There is no comparison to gymnastics. (Which is not maximal in nature but technical)

If you are not going to get good at maxing out with a snatch or clean, you better forget about Olifting. Take up knitting.

Also dont you all get tired of screaming 'steroids' whenever you see someone really strong?

Ido.

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Coach Sommer

The premise proposed by Broz that I strongly disagree with was making PRs everyday. This is clearly irresponsible and impractical for any sport, not only OL.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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Guest Ido Portal

Coach, check again: he is talking about a daily max, not a max.

No man/woman can come to the gym and try for a new absolute PR everyday. It just cannot be done, since we are organic creators which performance flactuates.

Sometimes, chasing a lift is the only way to get your game to the next level. Funny but his story about making a PR after 50 something failed attempts actually reminded me of your story about a hard day at the gym with one of your athletes, and with your requirement of one perfect routine that day - a requirement that was very hard to fullfill that day. Eventually he made it, and grew stronger for it if I remember correctly.

Is there danger there? of course. A good coach will help navigate you through the field of battle smartly and will take you to the next level, in one piece. From Broz's statement that he likes to 'chase' lifts sometimes and not give up I would not conclude he is doing something irresponsible or dangerous. There is a difference between being hard headed to being stupid.

Ido.

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