Need some encouragement or advice

So it is now 2 years that I have been working on this. With great dedication. I have not skipped a work out in that time. I've been doing every single exercise 2-3 times per week, exactly as prescribed. 

There's a lot of pluses. My mobility has never been better. No injuries. When I used to lift, I was constantly dealing with DOMS. I rarely have that any more. 

But god the progress is slow. I'm still at:

4x9 pushups (actually my last work out was 11, 10, 10, 10 and then I did 6 more after a minute as a micro progression.

4x9 ground rows (actually 11, 11, 10, 10)

5x10 elevated deck squats (i've progressed to having about 1 inch of elevation -- but still can't do on flat ground)

Just started 5x30 elevated planche lean.

4x48 straddle hollow body rock

4x10 twisting arch up

And straddle ups -- well, i'm doing 4x7 now, but I can't lock out my knees and point my toes still due to posterior chain tightness.

Any tips to step up the pace of progress?

Hey Paul! I have been doing GB for about 1.5 yrs, and I also feel to be progressing slowly. One thing that I noticed in myself was that I was working a progression for months at a time without submitting a form check. I work out by myself so it is possible for me to feel like I am working with good form while I am training until I see a video of myself, then I feel like I wasted a lot of time for not evaluating my form more often and spending that time with improper form. So I decided recently that I would record myself more often and submit them to the forums so that I can see myself progress and also attempt to be more efficient with my time by spending less time with improper form. I wish that there was a mirror at home where I workout, so I am able to see my mistakes with every workout. That would be awesome! Some things I try to tell myself often is that becoming proficient in anything takes time, effort, and lots of patience. Learn from my mistakes and move forward. Excellence will not happen overnight. This helps me stay motivated!

Paul:

Would you say your lack of faster progress is due more to lack of mobility/flexibility or due more to strength deficits?

I’m not a coach. If the problem is the former, I’d recommend all 3 stretch courses. They’ve helped me immensely.

I also empathize with your plight.  I’m into my 4th year on Jefferson Curls (manna, pe2).

51 minutes ago, Craig Copeland said:

Paul:

Would you say your lack of faster progress is due more to lack of mobility/flexibility or due more to strength deficits?

I’m not a coach. If the problem is the former, I’d recommend all 3 stretch courses. They’ve helped me immensely.

I also empathize with your plight.  I’m into my 4th year on Jefferson Curls (manna, pe2).

 

 

Mostly just strength. doing 5x15 push up still seems a million miles away. 

4 years on one level. . . what's keeping you with it?

Have you tried taking longer breaks between the sets? Research show little significance between taking 1or 3 minutes of rest between sets regarding hypertrofi or strengthwise.

It won't count as mastery but getting more work done and increasing the volume is sometimes the means of breaking a plato. And when you get more reps you can shorten the rest to mastery standard.

Here's my two cents on this. I've been doing push ups for 2,5 years now, going forward and back between the steps. There is nothing wrong with my form and feel strong doing them, 5x10 would not be a broblem. 

So I think its my shoulder mobility not strenght that is holding me back when doing high reps. In push ups/rows s. oulder extension. With better mob there is less resistance from other tight muscels. 

If I would think for example bridge, what would help me more at the moment, mobility or strenght? The answer is pretty clear. 

Feel free to correct me if Im wrong. Im just trying to understand what is going on with my body

If that makes all of us happier I must say soon I ll make 2 years training GST, and still on push ups, ground rows, deck squats, tuck ups, hollow body holds, scap shrugs and sl pe3.  But i m feeling better everyday. My mobility is certainly the problem in most of the cases, but my body is just starting to open up. Altough i m progressing very very slow sometimes i make some movement and i m surprised about the quality that i can put on this movement and how good it feels. It didn t happen this to me when i was training regular strenght. In gst when you train something is to become amazingly strong in the movement and amazingly flexible. So probably we are people under the average (mobility and strenght) trying to become way over the average. I think flexibility and mobility will be the absolutely main focus for the first 4-5 years. For example i already know that i ll be stucked in mn pe1 and 2 for years because of the rom i have to gain in my hamstrings, there is no way i can gain a belly to legs pike in a year if i m at around 120° pike, this is law of nature, it s mathematical. Maybe there will be a moment when my body respond better and faster to being stretched and that s actually happening on certain areas, but rarely. I have come to the conclusion life is giving me time to fix my mobility before anything else. As far as there is progress on any area we are good! I also can t train at all handstand because of extreme lack of shoulder flexion, so i just work on the shoulder flexion until i can work the handstand.

Keep working. Try to don t be focus on the result. 

Paul:

you asked, “what’s keeping me on the same level for four years?” (regarding Jefferson curls).  Well, I didn’t stretch for 30 years, despite being very physically active. So I behaved my way into really, really poor mobility and flexibility — and a bunch of injuries prior to coming to GB. The only way out was to address the problem areas head on. 

As one of the coaches has in his signature line "The slow way is the fast way." I do love that quote.

You are making progress even when you're not changing the rep scheme often. I lift with this program, so I can tell you I've noticed things like improved shoulder and core stability in a clean & jerk during periods when I've stagnated on my rep scheme here. Having that outside validation is nice. So while I can't increase my ground row reps yet -- and it's been a while -- I'm definitely improving the muscles involved.

Have faith in the process and, when in doubt, use a form check to make sure you're not stuck on something because you could use a little tweak to your technique.

PS Deck Squats -- me too! It amazes me that one little inch makes all the difference!

I agree with Craig, in a similar position myself.  Up to around age 25 I was super-flexible and strong with lots of martial-arts training under my belt...life got in the way and for the next 25 years the gradual neglect of my body set in...too much weight and too little flexibility, plus like Craig there were a few injuries that didn't help matters. For me the biggest issue is my right hip being nearly frozen/locked up so that any movement beyond a walk caused pain.  I've just started on GST and today finished the Fundamentals and am about to start on the Foundation 1.  But just with the Fundamentals alone I've experienced a 500% increase in mobility across all parts of my body, and most notably in the right hip. 

Flexibility and strength training is something that should be done throughout life, like getting a regular service for your car.  If you neglect this then you will quickly see things decline...I think we all realise that, which is why we're here.  So don't worry about being stuck in one place...push just a little harder if you can, and review the perfect techniques (posture, joint locking etc) to find where the sticking point is.  Use the tools available here to get advice and assistance.  You may find that doing some extra strength work with dumbells or kettlebells may offer that little bit extra juice to push you through.  But most importantly, don't give up...this is for the long haul and you should be still doing this 10, 20, 30,40+ years in the future.

@PAUL DALY

I don't know if I will get myself banned for giving you advice that isn't strictly from GymnasticBodies, but you deserve to know when you have put that amount of work in. (moderators: please let me know if this is somehow against the rules, and I will remove my post).

You want progress in strength? Given you have conditioned your joints, I recommend you try "Grease the groove", also known as consolidation training. You can read an article explaining the concept here: http://www.100pushups.com/greasing-the-groove/   Using that method, i went from one wobbly full bridge to 6 strict reps in 4 weeks.

You want mobility? Given you are already doing everything GB to improve this, find a professional, highly skilled physical therapist or osteopath, and find out if you hidden issues, like muscle knots. My biggest mobility gains have been after deep tissue massages. Not sure exactly why this works, but may be worth looking into if you are hungry enough for progress (or in enough agony, as I was)

Best of luck on your GST journey

I'll add some of my own experience here. You sometimes have to experiment to find out what will help you break through plateaus. The gymnasticsbodies progressions are awesome, but sometimes individuals plateau for a multitude of reasons and that particular progression of sets won't work. The GB coaches have recommended adding volume to your workout throughout the forums, which I found to be amazingly helpful in busting plateaus.  I also found periodization to be super productive in moving towards mastery. For just straight added volume, I'd do something like 6x8r followed by 8x5r, meaning I was hitting 88 reps of pushups in a workout, even if the volume was spread over more sets. Hitting higher volumes allowed me to increase my reps per set in subsequent workouts. Periodizing my workouts was also super effective. I'll workout 4 to 6 days a week doing a Foundations & Handstands split over 2 workouts. Every 3rd workout, I'll cut the volume to 40% while striving to maintain intensity. On the subsequent workouts, I'll often blast past plateaus. Using some periodization, I went from 5x5r pushups (basically pushing to failure) to mastery (slow, controlled, holding solid protraction, solid PPP) in about 4 weeks. I probably could have done this faster if I was really pushing, but I was waiting for my iM to stop making my shoulders pop, so I didn't rush it. Similarly, I went from only being able to do 12 ring pulls ups / dips in a 20 minute window to a full slow and controlled muscle up in 6 weeks. Programming for the individual matters!

When my mobility needs serious work, I take a different approach. I usually add in complimentary mobility work and make the mobility I'm lacking a part of my daily routine. I've also found weird things to be helpful - fascial tissue work, osteopathy, stretching for extended periods of time, among other things to be really helpful. 

I’ve been wondering the same thing, religiously doing Foundation 1 for almost two years. I’m at Core FL PE2/5, SL PE2/5, MN PE2/4, Lower Body PE4/6 and Upper Body HBP PE2/4, RC PE1/8, sPL PE1/8. I’ve missed only a couple of workouts in that time and done the stretch series every week. My wife doesn’t know how I stick to it because progress is glacial but I do feel I’m slowlymaking progress. I’ve tried implementing the strength sessions twice a week but really struggled with fitting the volume in so only do everything once a week. All I know is I’ve not got injured and I guess as a former cyclist with little other exercise experience I’ve got a lot to make up for. I think I’m probably the slowest ever at 51 but at least I’m trying.. I just wish the people on Instagram didn’t make it all look so easy! I’m looking at you „matstrane“! 

Tony, once a week might not be enough to stimulate volume change in the body.

There are a few strategies for fitting everything in.

Instead of 5 sets, try just 3, and do these twice a week.

After a month or so,  go back to 5 sets: try 5 sets in one week, then 5 sets and 3 sets the next week, then 5 sets, and so on.

For me, twice a week is too much (I'm 51 and a bit), but once a week isn't enough. So I do 3 elements, then repeat them 4-5 days later, so it averages to 3 a fortnight give or take a few days.

Thanks Nick, sounds like good advice, I’ll try that approach.

On 9/4/2018 at 5:03 PM, Nicholas Hamilton said:

I'll add some of my own experience here. You sometimes have to experiment to find out what will help you break through plateaus. The gymnasticsbodies progressions are awesome, but sometimes individuals plateau for a multitude of reasons and that particular progression of sets won't work. The GB coaches have recommended adding volume to your workout throughout the forums, which I found to be amazingly helpful in busting plateaus.  I also found periodization to be super productive in moving towards mastery. For just straight added volume, I'd do something like 6x8r followed by 8x5r, meaning I was hitting 88 reps of pushups in a workout, even if the volume was spread over more sets. Hitting higher volumes allowed me to increase my reps per set in subsequent workouts. Periodizing my workouts was also super effective. I'll workout 4 to 6 days a week doing a Foundations & Handstands split over 2 workouts. Every 3rd workout, I'll cut the volume to 40% while striving to maintain intensity. On the subsequent workouts, I'll often blast past plateaus. Using some periodization, I went from 5x5r pushups (basically pushing to failure) to mastery (slow, controlled, holding solid protraction, solid PPP) in about 4 weeks. I probably could have done this faster if I was really pushing, but I was waiting for my iM to stop making my shoulders pop, so I didn't rush it. Similarly, I went from only being able to do 12 ring pulls ups / dips in a 20 minute window to a full slow and controlled muscle up in 6 weeks. Programming for the individual matters!

When my mobility needs serious work, I take a different approach. I usually add in complimentary mobility work and make the mobility I'm lacking a part of my daily routine. I've also found weird things to be helpful - fascial tissue work, osteopathy, stretching for extended periods of time, among other things to be really helpful. 

Nicholas,

Would you mind detailing what kind of periodization you used?

I complemented with a few weighted sets of bench press (or other complimentary chest excersice) and have progressed nicely. I’ll do the same for the rest of the body parts. I love gymnastic bodies, but 15-20 minute workouts isn’t enough. I’ll take it to 45-60 minutes with added weight training. 

The strech series have worked wonders in a pretty short period of time as well. 

Hello all. I would like to revive this post because it seems very relevant to many people. Me in particular right now.

I've been stuck on 4x12 pushups for an eternity. I'm experiencing the same with most of the other elements. Just one giant plateau and it sucks. I've read the comments about valiantly sticking it out in hopes that micro-improvements will add up over time. But 2-3 years on literally the same exercise? Seems like too long. There must be an answer.

I've been ensuring my sleep is on point. I've been getting great nutrition. I've tried different rep schemes. I've done a ton of stretching. And I keep up with the weighted mobility. But there has been no progress in a long time for me and many others.

Lately I have been paying extremely close, detailed attention to my workouts. Documenting them in my journal. Making note of everything I can think of. And what I have found in myself is a ceiling for muscular endurance that I cannot overcome with the traditional means.

Is there anyone that is an expert in this area in the forums? Can anyone speak to cases where someone has overcome a rigid ceiling with muscular endurance? Does anyone have a link to more information about it? My research isn't coming up with much other than to try what I have already tried (nutrition, rest, stretching, varied rep schemes).

Hey Jeffrey, there are many solution.

now...how many times are you training pushup in a week?

I don't have an answer here but just want to chime in and empathize--I've been stuck on HS PE2 for 6-7 months.  I never thought this would be the exercise I'd plateau on..  My headstands feel amazing compared to where I started from, but I haven't *consistently* hit the 60 second mark yet.  My progress can be measured in fractions of a second.  I'm averaging about 55 seconds at this point.  Not to mention the iM--weighted shoulder extension.  I'm pretty solid with 2.5lbs on the bar but the jump to 5lbs feels monstrous.  For better or worse I've been trusting the process on this one and I just keep plugging away at it.  I've definitely noticed that since I've transferred basically all of my "exercise" practice (other than specific strength training for climbing) to GB--Foundations, Stretch Series, HS, etc--that there is a lot of overlap and transferability within the course materials (for example, the FL PE2 iM helps strengthen the shoulder extension position which benefits the HS PE2 iM), so I think going "all in" definitely helps.  I don't think there is a silver bullet but I know it helps me to not focus my sights on one specific movement in particular but instead to keep a wide enough lens that the isolated sticking points get balanced out with other areas of progress.

31 minutes ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

Hey Jeffrey, there are many solution.

now...how many times are you training pushup in a week?

2 times per week. 

ok, now write below the results of the pushup sessions of the last 6 training session.

Hey Jeffrey. Man, do I hear you. I've been here for way over two years. I'm on Foundation 2, 3 & 4 elements for most other disciplines. But for HBP, I've been on step 8 forever. I can do three sets of 15 reps but always come up two or three reps short in set 4. A couple of months ago, I bought a weighted vest and started something called Grease the Groove (GtG) four or five times a week. GtG is doing four or five sets of five reps with the weighted vest throughout the day...minimum five to ten minutes between the sets. I started doing this with HBP PE2 and RC PE2 (which I've also been on forever). FYI--I also changed my schedule to work on UB and CO elements 3 times every two weeks.

Results? Last workout, I marked both Easy---something I haven't done on these two exercises in forever. Next week is my first go at HBP PE2 Mastery. RC PE2 now at Step 7 (on Deload week now).

An interesting concept of GtG...the stronger you are, the greater your muscular endurance. The main purpose of the weighted vest is to get stronger. Muscular endurance should follow. That has been the case for me.

To me, after my new stall bars, the weighted vest has been the best investment in equipment. Well worth it.

5 hours ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

ok, now write below the results of the pushup sessions of the last 6 training session.

1.)    12-12-11-9

2.)    12-12-12-8

3.)    12-12-10-9

4.)    12-12-11-8

5.)    12-12-12-9

6.)    12-12-11-10

There is definitely a drop off after the 2nd and 3rd sets. And this has been pretty typical for a long time for me. I've tried a number of things to fix this. I'm not complaining in this post at all. Just trying to see what else has worked for people. 

29 minutes ago, Bill Marr said:

An interesting concept of GtG...the stronger you are, the greater your muscular endurance. The main purpose of the weighted vest is to get stronger. Muscular endurance should follow. That has been the case for me.

It's my first time hearing of this concept. I'll check it out. Thanks for sharing!