Rowing and GB Training

[kombatmaster7]

Hey guys,

I am proud to say that I just started this new, wonderful sport called rowing (crewing). I have questions, but here is some backround for people who are unfamilliar with the sport.

Great stuff and it is the ultimate team sport in my opinion.

If you are not famillair with rowing here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowing_(sport)

Now the way they measure the strength of a rower is through a machine commonly known as the erg:

http://purplemirage.net/blog_files/Erg1.jpg

Now the erg mimics normal rowing in a boat. You start with your back leaning foreward from the hips, arms straight, and your legs bent in a squat like this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_d28v5vyQfnc/S ... 00/erg.jpg

The guy is almost in what we call the catch (or foreward position before pulling)

To pull this fellow will push with his legs while keeping his arms straight and body foreward, then lean his body backwards, and finally pull his arms to his chest.

He will then push his arms forward (quickly) until straight, lean the body forward, and finally bend the knees and go into a squat. In that order.

The order starting at the catch is legs, body arms. Comming back its arms body legs.

Now this machine (and rowing in general) mainly utilizes the legs (the main driving force), puts stress on the lower back and abs, then lastly and least the arms.

For 2 kilometers of erging (the most commonly used distance) I erg at total time of 6:40 and a split of 1:39.

To put it in perspective Olympic rowers row below 6 minutes and the world record is 5 minutes and 19 seconds (almost 100% sure).

I was wondering if it would be wise to stick to GB training and shun using weights? (after reading this thread I am convinced the body weight training is the best at least for the upper body viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2989&hilit=gymnastics+superior&start=15)

I have never trained with any heavy metal before and have always taken the body weight approach.

Will lifting weights give me better results?

My main goal is to improve my time.

Thanks much,

Kombat

[Neal Winkler]

Well, the pulling position of rowing in the boat looks more similar to a front lever row than a shoulders-pinched-back-and-down cable machine row.

How strong are rowers? Unless there are sprint events that you'll compete in I don't think will make much of a difference. Do what you like.

[Nick Van Bockxmeer]

Mostly an endurance sport so its not going to influence you too much.

[Alvaro Antolinez]

Being in the 5-10 min range, with focus on POWER, I think he will benefit greatly from BtGB (even ultra marathonians should work in strenght and power), also rowing has a great focus on the hip girddle so complementing with some oly lifting (legs weight not being a mayor problem here) should help too.

I´m after building a sculling shell for recreative rowing so this is an interesting topic for me also. There are some books on amazon covering technical and fisical training:

High Performance Rowing by John McArthur (Author) is one with good reviews.

Maybe Slizzarman can give some insight in this as he was in the fleet ( he could outrow a nuclear aircraft carrier on his own so they had backup oars to give him just in case). Seriously I think he can give a great advice here.

[kombatmaster7]

Thanks for the replies guys.

omegant, I hear countless arguements that strength isn't a critical factor in rowing, but on the same note I hear some arguements that it helps.

If strength building is very relevant, then I would like to know what body weight and/or weight lifting exercises I should do.

I'll PM slizzardman to reply on this topic.

Thanks,

kombat

[Joshua Naterman]

Hey! Just got your PM.

I used to row a lot when I was younger, but haven't rowed recently, so I don't think I can say anything DEFINITIVE even for myself, but as far as improving your time, there are a couple things you can do.

1) BtGB. I do think that the SLS work will improve your leg drive, because you achieve the same compression as the catch in rowing. Granted, it's one leg at a time, but the ROM of the rowing motion is included in the ROM of the SLS. The various rowing exercises, FL work, and FL pulls/front pulls should be the bulk of your upper body training, with the PPP, dips, and HeSPU work done more to maintain balance than to reach for a specific goal, though you should see slow progress.

2) As Omegant said, olympic lifts will be great for you! Specifically the power clean, the first half of the clean and jerk. That's what you should focus on, because snatching is riskier and won't accomplish anything for rowing beyond what the power clean will.

Kettlebell swings, cleans, and snatches will also be good. I'd alternate between the KB and the power cleans each workout.

3) 20-30s sprints on the rower with the maximum resistance that you can SPRINT AT for the whole time. You only need a couple of these, and not necessarily Tabata style, though it's good to go in and out of. Tabata intervals, if you don't already know, are 20 seconds work, 10 seconds rest, repeat with no additional rest. You go until you can no longer maintain your performance. If you're in REALLY GOOD shape you'll probably get 6 sets at best before your numbers drop. They are brutal, but they work well for rowing especially.

Keeping in mind that your rowing training is going to be a pretty big part of your overall training, don't go crazy with these exercises! Be conscious of yourself, don't over-reach. It's hard to give sets and reps because I have no idea how your body works, but I know that I'd create two workouts and do each once a week. Maybe some light stuff a third day, but I'd probably use that as just a sprint day.

If you have front pulls in one workout, do front lever pulls or TOPS pulls the next. If you've got front lever rows in one workout, do foot supported rows and some pull up work the next workout! Hit the muscle groups but don't totally trash them, and eat a LOT. Rowing burns an obscene number of calories.

[kombatmaster7]

Thank you so much for the reply slizzardman.

I can definently do #'s 1 and 3, but I am very unfamilliar with weights in general especially olympic lifting and kettlebells ( sounds intimidating).

Where would I start to learn how to Olympic Lift and use kettlebells?

Also I am assuming for the strength building exercises, reps will be 1 to 5. Do you agree?

Thanks again man

-kombat

[Joshua Naterman]

For strength, your rep range will be 3-5, generally. For you, specifically, I don't know. I mean, rep ranges don't mean anything without some sort of timeframe. For example, if you do 3 reps, but each rep takes 10 seconds, you are really sort of straddling strength and growth specificities. I'd say 4-8, depending on the exercise and your personal ability. Keep doing the same progression until 8 reps is fairly easy for at least one set, with at least 3 sets being 5+ reps like Coach says. Remember to keep a tempo, don't just go as fast as you can most of the time. Once you get stronger in a movement, explosive concentric contractions may be a great tool for you to use on and off, but at first you won't really benefit much from it.

As for Kettlebell stuff, search for steve maxwell on youtube, or how to do a kettlebell swing, how to do a kettlebell snatch and watch steve's videos. Pavel's the only other guy I'd listen to for learning, and I don't know if his stuff's on youtube.

Power cleans are tricky, ideally you'd work with a coach until you learn good form, but there are some great youtube videos out there. I don't know every little nuance to those, but if I were you I'd find a weightlifting coach (as in Olympic lifts) to teach you.

[kombatmaster7]

Thanks slizzardman.

I'll put your advice to work ASAP.

The Tabata stuff is really interesting thanks for introducing that too me. If you could reccomend any good articles on Tabata I would be glad to read them.

I appreciate the help,

kombat

[IvanPS]

If you could reccomend any good articles on Tabata I would be glad to read them.

I think this is the article from which most people know the tabata method.

I love using it with burpees.

Otherwise I guess the wikipedia article has some information too.

Cheers

[Joshua Naterman]

That's the first time I've seen the tnation article on tabatas! I'm not a big fan of using them for lifts, though admittedly my knowledge on that front is pretty limited. I did that while I was training for a little while, but I wasn't getting anything out of it. To be fair, I already had specific training for anaerobic and aerobic capacity that I did separately, so perhaps it was simply a matter of doing the same thing a different way.

I think that tnation misrepresents the tabatas as being multi-targeting, since they are primarily a tool for waste product management. Meaning that they force your body to become good at processing energy system byproducts, since you're building them up fairly quickly.

I don't know how others feel about this, but in my experience tabata intervals work best with rowing, sprinting(though not to 8 sets, that's just too much for speed development, but it's great for the longer short distance guys!), and swimming. As close to full body work as possible.

[kombatmaster7]

Thanks for the articles IvanPS!

I think that tnation misrepresents the tabatas as being multi-targeting, since they are primarily a tool for waste product management. Meaning that they force your body to become good at processing energy system byproducts, since you're building them up fairly quickly.

Thats really interesting slizzardman.

Do you not agree with the info on the tnation article?

Do you have a better one?

[Joshua Naterman]

I learned about them originally from cbass.com. Clarence Bass is a bodybuilder who's over 70 and still big and ripped. Still lifts fairly heavy, too. He has a pretty good number of articles that are linked to from his site, and the tabatas is one of them. It actually talks about a guy who used to row, and he just used tabatas to get in shape. After a while he tested himself on a concept IIC or D i think and he ended up with top 10 times for his age group in nearly all distances from 1000m to 10000m. Pretty good results!

I used them with jump ropes when I used to train for fighting, and sprints on the track. I was always able to outpace everyone I trained with, some of whom were in excellent condition, largely because of this training. It made a huge difference. I'd definitely have rowed as well if a rower was available.

[Vic]

I think tabatas are a great way to train but I would be wary to use them with any lift were form is important. You are bound to hurt yourself if you use the tabata format with weighted squats. You want to use it with sprints, rowing, mountain climbers and cycle just as it has been mentioned already. I personally like to use them on hill sprints. For the OP the best way to become faster at rowing is to row, row and row some more. Congrats on finding such a cool sport, your back and shoulders will get huge.