Too many excercises?

Hi Guys,

Was designin my own routine and had come up with something fairly similar to Killroy70's, but with more and now im not sure if im overdoing it. Sure feels like it, I can hardly force myself to complete the routine each day. Guess im a bit of a perfectionist too and don't want to leave anything out, plus I used to do strength trainin workouts with weights before where I was told to squat n work my legs everyday, so I guess it's stuck. Please see my routine below, where I have put "/" means I have paired it with the next excercise, so I am doing both, like supersetting:

- Planche/Front lever progressions, then ring dips/pull ups or FL pull ups.

- L sit/Horse stance (threw that in as a static hold for legs from my martial arts stuff) then ring leg raises/1 leg squats or jumping squats.

- Handstands/Back lever progressions then moving on to handstand pushups against the wall.

So I end up doing 6 static positions, and 5 different excercises every session. Was doing 3 days, want to hit 4 a week.

Was trying to do the statics in steady state cycle, but switched to an alternative method (see below) as it was taking so long and exhausting me. On excercises im aiming for 3x5 on everything, maybe move up to 5x5. I have around 45 secs - 1 minute max rest between everything.

Questions:

1. Should I do ALL the basic strength excercises after the statics, every session? In one place in the BtGB book it seems like Coach is telling you to pick a particular plane of movement or body part and work on that for each day of the week (like killroy), while later it seems as if he was sayin hit all the planes of movement, with a different version of the movement each day.

2. If I do the above programme in the steady state cyle method, it takes me so long, even though im havin only around 45 seconds - 1 minute breaks between all excercies. If I have more, im training for well over an hour, if I have less I feel like dropping dead and don't complete the routine. So, I switched to the version in the original BTGB article, of holdin the position in as many sets for as long as possible until you hit a minute, and just continuing until you can hold the position for a full minute, before moving on to the next progresson. This seemed as more do-able, and not so time consuming in this routine. Is this ok? Is this because i've designed the routine with too much in it? I know I could handle the SSC if I reduced the amount of excercises im doing, but again, im worried about not doing enough on all body parts.

If so, when should I do my legs etc? I read earlier on, do them Tuesday and Thursday if im doing a MTRF schedule or somthing, but what is that?

4. With the right diet, will this programme be enough for fatloss, or do I need to throw in some cardio or hiit training afterwards or on days off?

Sorry for all the questions guys, just really want to get this right, and have been sitting screwing over it for a while, like getfit, and i'd rather be working out then sitting here figuring it out.

Jason

There is a sticky on about a post like this where Ido basically says there is no way to answer a question like this over a forum and he is right. My suggestion: Strip it down to a steady state cycle with FSP's just one exercise for Push/Pull and 1 legs/core each day. Maybe even just start with Front Lever/Planche/L-Sit FSP's. Do an 8 week cycle 3 days per week. Once that 8 week cycle is finished move on to the next progressions and add something in/ maybe 20 mins of handstand work on one day and continue for another 8 weeks.

Ido is right that someone needs to do the work to figure out what is right programming wise for you. I can't figure out any other way so I'm just starting with minimal volume and adding more in to find out whats right. After 8 weeks if I your not progressing but are not over worked you may need more volume so add it in.

Maybe this approach is simplistic and won't yield optimal from the start results like you were working with a professional. But if you keep a log and good notes on your workouts I think you will learn how your body reacts to training and if you are in it for the long haul whats the harm in starting from the beginning and giving yourself room to progress for a long time before hitting a wall? Good for confidence if nothing else =)

1m of rest will be rough. I'd prefer way more and yes, it extends the amount of time necessary but it's the difference of getting through it versus not at all.

For the FSP, you can use 45-90s of rest. Generally, I will perform each FSP with a short minimal rest in between each and rest the 45-90s per round.

For the 3x5's, I prefer the longer rest periods. As it's only 2 rest periods for 3 rounds, longer rest periods still don't eat too much time.

For SSC, hold durations should be 50% of max hold. If max hold is 10s, use 5s work sets 12x=60s of work.

I prefer dedicated FSP work, then the FBE work by itself with a short rest in between.

I also prefer doing the leg work on it's own but if you were going to do 3x5 sets of pushing and pulling, you might as well throw the legs and core in there to be efficient and that way it wouldn't take as much time. I would do legs last with core before. It's not so much of an issue when you are doing BW leg stuff than BarBell leg stuff in which a taxed core may inhibit leg work.

I prefer working my legs at least TuTh if not MTuThF where in MTh are focused on leg power (sprinting, jumping) and 2 days are focused on leg strength (weighted SLS). I also prefer my leg work after upper body/core work because doing those in tandem or after legs, sucks.

When you simply try finishing the 60s of work in sets as possible, you quickly burn out I find. For my boys, we do between 5-10 sets of each FSP before we go on snack break but they start burning out because they don't like to take rest periods. As well, most of them will not try to do longer holds which is why I have resigned to just assigning them 5-10 sets instead of x amount of sets=60s of work@50% of max hold. Sets are 2-5s typically.

60s of FSP+5x5 is very hard. Ugh. BTDT.

If I were you, I would seperate them into BL/PL/FL as a round and then do HS and L-sit as accessory work after push/pull/core/leg work in rounds. Or do HS work before the 3 FSP, and L-sit at the end.

A slight calorie deficit leads to a manageable loss in weight. 500 calories in the negative will allow you to lose 1 pound per week whereas 300 will allow less than 3 pounds per month.

I would also pair planche and back lever and front lever with legs. This is how they are paired in BtGB.

Are you trying to get strong? Skinny? Tired? Bigger?

What are your goals?

I can tell you for sure that regardless of your goals, what you're doing is too much, especially given the rest times. Based on your workout, your goal must be dramatic weight loss and extreme work capacity. If those aren't your goals, you're going to have to adjust accordingly.

Thanks for the replies guys.

Will def strip it down code, and keep a log and add bits in slowly. Guess I was trying to take on too much and conquer it all to soon.

Thanks for all pointers bob, il prob scale it down to being along the lines of killroy70's workout with legs and core thrown in, using youur parameters for rest and sets, and yeah def gona split the FSP and FBE work into seperates, with a break in between.

Slizzardman, well my main aim is to fill out a bit more n get stronger, while getting rid of this belly fat that comes back so easily when im not working out. Although im slim, I get love handles n flab around my waist which sticks out more compared to the rest of me, looks pretty shit. Im not too hell bent on building mass which is why i stopped weights, but I would like to fill out a bit more, especially my arms, as my biceps have always been small and not grown so much, im comparison to my triceps, shoulders and chest which all grow pretty well. Basically an athletic looking strong body, without this fat! My stats are:

Just hit 28

6ft

182 pounds

around 15.5% body fat.

Did a fair bit of weight training in the past, more strenght training, 5 x 5, and alot of compound excercises and loads of squatting, but its been just under a year since I trained properly and iv started the gymnastics stuff a couple weeks ago.

My diet is pretty clean, eat a fibre cereal or porridge in mornings, lunch is usually some kinda meat and vegetables, with thin indian chappati bread, which in our family is just made from wholemeal flour and water (around 60 calories each, i have around 2-3). I try to avoid these in the evening, which is usually a meat and veg meal, or an omlette with some meat etc in it. Not working right now, so get up a bit later then usual, so I end up just havin 3 meals a day. Was thinking maybe im not eating enough, I get in around 1500 calories a day at the moment, maybe a bit more on some days, been trying to throw in a few olive shots, but then as im not moving around loads in the day, even when im working cos its most likely to be office based, I get worried about puttin the flab back on so get put off eatin more calories, even though most of the food I eat is always wholemeal, unprocessed, home cooked natural stuff. Would really appreciate it if you could let me know your thoughts.

Jason

just something to think about. I'm 5'11" 175-180 depending on fluctuations probably a reasonable guesstimate of around 10-12% and I need to eat 3000-3200 calories to maintain my weight, when I was PL'ing and got up to 235 OH LAWD you would faint at the sight of the mountain of food I was eating haha. I think people WAY underestimate how much food they need especially taller guys. You see patterns emerge on online forums sometimes and alot of times maybe its because guys are much shorter/other factors.

Do you practise kung-fu, wushu or something? Ma bu (horse stance) is a very nice exercise: you'll have much power!

Well, I practise parkour and conditioning for 2 years or more. At first, I did a lot of exercises in one routine: doing this I didn't gained strenght, but endurance.

When I got registered myself here, I learned that I must do a short routine more focalised in Strenght than Endurance, and the rest between repetitions must be 45 seconds or 90 seconds. Now, my routine is more focalized on FSEs and other exercises for torso and legs.

...just thoughts and my personal experience. Hope it works

Ye I think I am underestimating what I need to eat, I've read a fair bit on how the body has a starvation response so if your calories are too low your body starts to save fat, maybe that has somthing to do with the flab building up so quick. Also feels quite watery, and tips for water rentention?

Hey Marcello, well its an ancient Indian battlefield martial art, from around the time of Yoga etc's conception, which is thought to have preceeded Kung Fu, going into China along with Bhuddism, the stuff that people say bodhidharma taught the monks originally. Was generally considered to have died out until recently, but one dude who learnt from an old indian master is teaching it in a few classes in England, vicious stuff!! And yeah so its the same horse stance used in Kung Fu, and yeah man gives u immense power in your legs eh, apparently also makes you as virile as 10 men! I guess it works on the same basis as static holds for the rest of the body, and gives just as good rewards.

Ye as I can tell from everyones, im gona be the tortoise and not the hare, and scale the work down, and concentrate more on making few moves/positions better.

Kalari? If so, very cool.

Interesting, I'm vaguely familiar with Gatka and your issues with ancient indigenous MA turning into a piece of art, Martial Art, rather than a Martial System of Combat.

Kalari is some cool stuff but its more south indian stick fighting, its tough to find real decent martial arts in india cos most of it died out. This is a northern art called shastar vidiya, all about killing with minimal moves, whether with hands or swords etc, and fighting multiples etc and battle formations, kinda like an ancient Krav Maga (but more deadly ). But if u google it, ul prob just find a bunch of dudes twirling swords around, doing somthing called gatka, and trying to pass it off as this original art. sorry.. back to gymnastics! lol

SO NICE! Keep going on that

Thanks Marcello.

Well ye thats precisely the issue bob, but what can u do, apart from keep training, getting better and kicking ass till people realise

So im thinking of doing as you guys said, and basically sticking with the killroy type workout, with the FBE being one push/pull variation each day, and throwing in core and legs. Il maybe alternate legs one day, core another day at first if im still tired, and put it together later. Try throw in L sit at the end like you said bob, if it feels too much, il just leave it out till I can do it, as the core gets worked any in other moves right. So now im down from 6 static holds and 5 excercises, down to 4 static holds, and 4 excercises, with more rest. Sound better? I could also do the horse stance on my day off, or in the morning for a bit, as well as the L sit.

Only question now is, bob if im supposed to pair core and legs excercises, ie pair leg raises with SLS for example, then how am i supposed to also pair legs with Front Lever, as said in the book? Im thinkin of just treating all the FSP in one round, and all FBE in a seperate round, which gets ride of this issue right?

Any input slizzardman?

treating the FSP as one round and FBE as another does so. Some days I work the 60s of FSP+3x5 of FBE and other days I do the 3 sets of embedded FSP+FBE for integrated training (when I have limited time or energy as the prior takes longer for me).

I think it's just handy pairing the core with legs.

The other FSP do work the core definitely, I noticed this the other day with FL. L-sit for me is something I'm satisfied with though it would be nice to be able to V-sit one day so I work some hip flexor drills in the beginning warmup and try to start a lot of moves with L-sits ( L-sit to tuck planche, L-hang to FL, L-sit to press HS). HS work the core as well, even SLS and deck squats.

Thanks Bob, you've been a great help. Yes il follow that and throw in the L sit when ever I feel like it for a bit of a change etc, maybe in mornings with my horse stance or whatever. You really might wana try the horse stance, crazy strength benefits in ur legs. Totally straight head, neck, and back, tail bone tucked in, pushing ur pelvis forward as if ur trying to push the big fella outwards, knees as wide as poss (which helps with pushin the pelvis forward) and then sink as low as u can, holdin ur hands out in front of you, or maybe slightly lowered to arond belly button height in front of you for balance and hold. I garauntee you'l feel benefits from it!

Ah one final thing, BICEPS! I know every dude asks about them, but I really do find it hard building good biceps, my tris grow great, as do my shoulders n chest, but bi's never look as good. Should I do anything specific? Or more straight arm work, as coach sommers articles says these cause a lot of growth in arms/biceps? Or will these other excercises take care of it and im stressin for nothing..

I'd say that for the most part you're stressing for nothing about your biceps, but my arms got huge when I did a lot of wide grip pull up work. They've stayed big ever since.

Killroy template is a great way to start. What I'm doing is probably too much for the first 6 months or so, but I'm not sure. I really don't think I'm doing all that much, though you can check the workout log if you want to see for yourself. I end up doing a total of 30-40 sets, with all exercise sets added together. Sounds like a lot, but it's really just 5-7 rounds of 6 or so exercises spread out over part or all of the day.

At any rate, I think you should go for the killroy workout, be smart like he was and don't even TRY more advanced progressions until you build up to good volume on the current one, whatever that is at the time. That's especially important with the statics.

Don't overthink the exercise pairings, just fit them together however you can. Ideally, do straight body ab work with your legs and bent body some other day. So body levers and HLL would be different days, mixed in with other stuff. This lets you train your abs with high intensity for two different typed of strength, and you need them both! Also, don't try to stick to a 7 day schedule no matter what. I just did a 6 day cycle of day on day off, so three workouts in six days, followed by an extra three of relative rest, and I am seeing gains on every single exercise. If you need extra rest, that's ok! Sort of a hard thing to get used to when you don't have experience, but you'll find out that often the best thing to do when you start getting stronger is to work hard and then take a longer rest, and keep doing that over and over. Sort of a more natural version of Poliquin's "Super Accumulation" training.

Jason, I am very familiar with Horse stance as I trained in Uechi ryu in my younger years half a lifetime ago. Occasionally we still do it mainly to annoy us as shugyo.

I found something interesting, but in spanish.

http://www.vitonica.com/entrenamiento/s ... entrenando

Basically, if you have more beats per minute than the normal, when you're resting (I'm in my bed, writing on GB.con and I have 80 beats per minute, and I normally have 65), you're overtrained

Hope it helps

That's with waking heartbeat. You always measure your resting heart rate first thing in the morning, before you start being active.

If your waking heart rate is significantly above normal, with normal meaning your personal average measurement, then you are probably over-training. The increased heart rate signifies your body trying to work overtime to pump nutrients through the body so it can repair.

If you measure your heart rate at any other time, it's not a good indicator of over-training, no matter what your heart rate ends up being.

Welcome Jason - Another 'Indian' guy on board