Ground Rows (RC/PE2) - Mastery is impossible

I have really stuck on this exercise.

I can do 25 reps at once of this exercise. I can do 17 pull-ups in a bar (shoulder-wide grip). I can even do a clumsy rope climb: 

but it is still impossible for me to progress and do 5 sets of 15 repetitions of ground rows, with the pace of the video (and also doing the mobility exercise at the same time). I could do it if I would rest 1 more minute between reps but this is a no-no.  

Why is this happening? Is it because some muscle which is required from this exercise is really untrained? Is it an endurance issue?

Hi @John Deliyiannis,

Thanks for reaching out. May I ask what is your training schedule and also to submit your form on RC/PE1 and RC/PE2. In my experience, I know a lot of people who will do a good number of chinups/pullups but fail miserably in rows and part of it is because they are not used to using their scaps properly. Lack of work volume is also a factor on this one. (mainly because people are used to rest in between sets)

4 minutes ago, Leo Trinidad said:

Hi @John Deliyiannis,

Thanks for reaching out. May I ask what is your training schedule and also to submit your form on RC/PE1 and RC/PE2. In my experience, I know a lot of people who will do a good number of chinups/pullups but fail miserably in rows and part of it is because they are not used to using their scaps properly. Lack of work volume is also a factor on this one. (mainly because people are used to rest in between sets)

Well, I am trying at least once a week to do it for the last two-three months and in some weeks I tried it twice. I am patient of keep doing it, just wondering if it is common and I was wondering because I haven't seen much of a progress. I'll come back with a video with my form. Thank you!

Thank you for your clarification @John Deliyiannis. Yes this is normal since you are building work capacity. I would suggest that you add more days for your pulling. Can't wait to see your form in both exercises. 

I've been working on them for somewhere around 5 months now. I feel your pain. I can do roughly 20 pull ups, and thought I would blow through this exercise. Nope. I would love to hear if anybody has managed to succeed with the 5x15. I'm getting close to the old standard of 5x10, but It's taking forever. Anybody that's trained through the 5x15 care to let us know your secret?

Hi Alexander,

Perfecting an exercise takes time. As you go through your training, you will find that some progressions come naturally to you. You will also find exercises and progressions that seem impossible to master and are, quite frankly, frustrating to train. Keep being patient and consistent. Progress takes time, but you will get there.

Hi Alexander, 

A good place to start is with some form checks for RC/PE1 & 2. Once your form is 100% dialed in you can start looking at some tactics like dropping back a step and adding an extra set. For example, drop down from 5x9r to 5x6r or even 6x6r. Once that's easy, advance to 5x9r and then 6x9r. Keep breaking it down in that fashion and you'll no doubt bust through the plateau and master.

Like I said, form first (mobility AND strength), plateau busting strategies second. Sometimes when I reassess and improve my form, I naturally have to drop back a step because the improved execution makes it more difficult. Then, once I rebuild with better form, the plateau is eliminated. When the new RC progression ordering came out I went through and remastered everything so it is possible!

Just for an extra data point, yeah I'm finding this really hard. I got to 4x6 pretty quickly, by beginning of December. Got stuck trying to get 4x9. I try to add at least one rep to any set every time. Sometimes I get it. Sometimes I get less than the previous time.  My last time I did 15,15,12,9. And then an extra set, I think 5. 

Oh, also, I don't do it with the video  I end up taking extra rest since I log my sets after each set. Once i can do 5x15 I'll start trying to do it with the video.

Thanks Jeffrey, and Everett. I'll record some form checks, and post them when I can. I guess I'll keep grinding away, and hopefully sooner than later things will improve.

@Alexander Ghabril If you need any help along the way, please let us know. We are happy to do so!

On 3/13/2017 at 1:26 PM, John Deliyiannis said:

I have really stuck on this exercise.

I can do 25 reps at once of this exercise. I can do 17 pull-ups in a bar (shoulder-wide grip). I can even do a clumsy rope climb: 

 

but it is still impossible for me to progress and do 5 sets of 15 repetitions of ground rows, with the pace of the video (and also doing the mobility exercise at the same time). I could do it if I would rest 1 more minute between reps but tis is a no-no.  

Why is this happening? Is it because some muscle which is required from this exercise is really untrained? Is it an endurance issue?

I am having the exact samt problem. Stuck at around 10 reps/set. 

Hi @Tobias Åkeblom, 

Please submit your video for form check on both PE1 and PE2 of RC progressions.

2 minutes ago, Leo Trinidad said:

Hi @Tobias Åkeblom, 

Please submit your video for form check on both PE1 and PE2 of RC progressions.

Will do, for now I am keeping upper body training to a lower volume, due to a nagging shoulder injury.

7 minutes ago, Leo Trinidad said:

Hi @Tobias Åkeblom, 

Please submit your video for form check on both PE1 and PE2 of RC progressions.

Btw. I did post a form check for PE2 a while ago:

I hope your shoulder gets better @Tobias Åkeblom, you can increase your workload once your shoulder gets better. I have seen your form and I agree with Everett. Keep working on it and refining it. 

Thank you for taking the time to answer and sorry for my delayed reply (I had a really busy week!). I think I have to buy a mirror and check my form more regularly as it is indeed really important. I took some videos and I can see some imperfections on my form but I'd like your comments on it.

Here are the videos:

Thank you very much.

Hi @John Deliyiannis,

Thanks for submitting videos for form check. For your RC/PE2 first video: shows too much arching and instability of the body. Reps are inconsistent and you are rushing each rep. RC/PE2 second video: form is a lot better but still can improve by slowing down a bit the tempo and keeping a tighter body line and keeping the feet together. As for the RC/PE1: It is a bit low. You have to move a bit backwards and maximize the exercise by refining your form, making your tempo better and making each rep consistent.

@Leo Trinidad regarding the tempo on the first video, I am following the instructional video (I had my laptop opened and working out at the same time, you can hear the counting). 

Yes you are correct @John Deliyiannis but you should improve your bodyline/form along with the tempo/counting.

I will take this chance to ask a question as not to open a new topic - I started doing Foundation 1. Are there supposed to be rest periods between sets? Or back to back Main + Mobility for the designed amount?

Thank you!

Hi Jan,

There is no rest in between the sets. You can view the mobility exercise as your 'rest' period. In Foundation One you will be focusing on building your work capacity  

The tempo on the follow along videos is fairly quick. I wonder if maybe moving that quickly I'm not building as much strength in the top portion of the movement due to some momentum. Do you guys think it might be beneficial to slow things down while training for the movement, and then testing mastery at the tempo of the follow alongs? 

HI Alexander, before manipulating the tempo of the execution please master the follow along video, then move back to a different tempo if you want.

9 hours ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

HI Alexander, before manipulating the tempo of the execution please master the follow along video, then move back to a different tempo if you want.

I don't really understand this reply from @Alessandro Mainente so I'm hoping we can get some clarification.  For context, I've noticed a similar challenge to some of the other athletes here. If we post videos for review sometimes the reply is to slow down despite the fact that we're following the follow-along video.  

The post from @John Deliyiannis indicated to me that he's having a hard time to accomplish the proper form while also maintaining the follow-along tempo.  So it stands to reason that, at a slower tempo, we might be able to keep better form even if we don't complete as many reps.  Is this incorrect thinking?  Or is the mastery tempo in some of the videos incorrect?  I'm certainly not challenging anyone's correctness or authority (we look up to you coaches), but sometimes (not often) we get what seems like conflicting advice.

Hope that makes sense.  I'm completely thrilled with this F1 training program and love learning more fine points in the forum.
 

My statement means that in order to move on you need to show the follow along tempo, nothing more. 

then if you want to train again the mastery with another tempo, you can.