Coming off an Elbow Injury

Thanks for all this ryan

im starting your plan today 

like I've said there isn't any pain doing rope climb pe1 or hBp pe1 Only ever get the burn with  sustained Scap shrugs and the few daily things I've mentioned 

Ive just reached mastery at rope climb pe1 and may see how I get on with pe2 as it is within your boundaries you set.

I was on pe3 hBp so I've altered my settings back to pe2 to work on them for the next few weeks like you said 

Interesting that you mention ligaments as these are never really mentioned in all the "googling" and self diagnosing I've been doing online .  It's always tendinitis of the medial and lateral epicondyles that gets the coverage .

Makes sense to me that these may be the offending parts of my elbows seeing as how long they are taking to feel any better despite my training being a tenth of what it once was since I started foundation back in October . 

it's teaching me a hell of a lot about my body and how it functions though so every cloud ......

4 hours ago, Leigh Kettle said:

Thanks for all this ryan

im starting your plan today 

like I've said there isn't any pain doing rope climb pe1 or hBp pe1 Only ever get the burn with  sustained Scap shrugs and the few daily things I've mentioned 

Ive just reached mastery at rope climb pe1 and may see how I get on with pe2 as it is within your boundaries you set.

I was on pe3 hBp so I've altered my settings back to pe2 to work on them for the next few weeks like you said 

 

 

- This all sounds good to me! 

3 hours ago, Leigh Kettle said:

Interesting that you mention ligaments as these are never really mentioned in all the "googling" and self diagnosing I've been doing online .  It's always tendinitis of the medial and lateral epicondyles that gets the coverage .

 

- This is just my idea, MRI will confirm this. But regardless tendon and ligament injuries are typically treated roughly the same so regardless of the diagnoses the approach we have laid out will be beneficial. As you may be aware Ligaments and Tendons are very slow to heal. I hope you will begin noticing some big improvements in the comfort of your elbows in about 8-12 weeks if not longer. Just stay consistent  and patient and you'll get there. 

I've attached an excerpt from coach sommers book that I think correlates nicely with yours and mine situation's that we've found ourselves in. Hang in there, and keep me posted on how these next couple weeks go!   

@Leigh Kettle Here are the wrist exercises I do at the end of my workouts. Currently 2 days per week. Bumping up to three days per week next week. 

- On these my tempo was a little off, Should be a little slower on the way up, but my ecc. is roughly 3 sec per rep. Concentric is feeling good tho, used to get sharp pain at the top of the rep, now they are pain free. My forearms are just super weak after being out of the game for 18 months roughly. Using 5lbs here for about 10 reps total. The supination pronation is a 3lb stick that I can eventually add on plates to once I get stronger.

Hope this helps

@Ryan Segervall for the pronation/supination you could also add one or both of the safety screws that come with these dumbbells so you get a smaller increase in weight. This is where I'm at with this drill.

16 hours ago, Ryan Segervall said:

- This all sounds good to me! 

 

- This is just my idea, MRI will confirm this. But regardless tendon and ligament injuries are typically treated roughly the same so regardless of the diagnoses the approach we have laid out will be beneficial. As you may be aware Ligaments and Tendons are very slow to heal. I hope you will begin noticing some big improvements in the comfort of your elbows in about 8-12 weeks if not longer. Just stay consistent  and patient and you'll get there. 

 

I've attached an excerpt from coach sommers book that I think correlates nicely with yours and mine situation's that we've found ourselves in. Hang in there, and keep me posted on how these next couple weeks go!   

Brilliant stuff Ryan thank you . Just this minute finished my elbow rehab routine and felt good with  only the slightest "feeling that the ligaments had been used" in one elbow with certainly not pain or anything . Guys like you are like gold dust so once again I can't thank you enough for all the help you've given me . Like I said hoepfully one day we can meet and all this will be a thing of the past for both of us . Keep me informed of all your work  too as im very keen to see how you progress Ryan . 

6 hours ago, Joachim Nagler said:

@Ryan Segervall for the pronation/supination you could also add one or both of the safety screws that come with these dumbbells so you get a smaller increase in weight. This is where I'm at with this drill.

@Leigh Kettle

For clarification. Highly recommend you grab yourself one of these along with some 1 3/4lb plates and 2.5lb plates. I think it costed me around $20. You can get them at your typical sports equipment store. 

The nobs each weigh roughly 1/2 pound an allow for safe micro progressions. 

1 hour ago, Leigh Kettle said:

Brilliant stuff Ryan thank you . Just this minute finished my elbow rehab routine and felt good with  only the slightest "feeling that the ligaments had been used" in one elbow with certainly not pain or anything . Guys like you are like gold dust so once again I can't thank you enough for all the help you've given me . Like I said hoepfully one day we can meet and all this will be a thing of the past for both of us . Keep me informed of all your work  too as im very keen to see how you progress Ryan . 

- Sounds like your at a good starting point for the weight you are using! Stay there for the next 2 weeks and keep an eye on that post sourness. It should go down over time. Stay humble too, its very easy to want to progress onwards, but what your body needs is for you to stay at that current load for a little longer. Over the weeks you'll get a hang of when its time to move forward and when its time to hang out at the current intensity. 

And Leigh, you are absolutely more than welcome. This is what I love to do and am glad I was able to be a help for you  

If you ever find yourself in Colorado please reach out. Would love to meet up, maybe do some training too! 

Stay in touch,

Ryan 

3 hours ago, Ryan Segervall said:

- Sounds like your at a good starting point for the weight you are using! Stay there for the next 2 weeks and keep an eye on that post sourness. It should go down over time. Stay humble too, its very easy to want to progress onwards, but what your body needs is for you to stay at that current load for a little longer. Over the weeks you'll get a hang of when its time to move forward and when its time to hang out at the current intensity. 

 

And Leigh, you are absolutely more than welcome. This is what I love to do and am glad I was able to be a help for you  

If you ever find yourself in Colorado please reach out. Would love to meet up, maybe do some training too! 

 

Stay in touch,

Ryan 

Brilliant Ryan thank you 

just a note on my feelings since doing the elbow routine around 6 hours ago

at varying periods in that time (by no means constantly) there is a very very slight throb in that area deep in the central elbow pit, lasting around 20/30 seconds at a time . Is this considered bad, usual or good in the sense of a post rehab soreness ? Do you get similar post rehab soreness  ? I know you mentioned soreness should go down over time but was wondering what kind of soreness is acceptable ie throb,tightness, warm feeling, ache etc 

Leigh

@Leigh Kettle

to be expected. That sorness is apart of the healing process 

5 minutes ago, Ryan Segervall said:

@Leigh Kettle

 

to be expected. That sorness is apart of the healing process 

Phew I was hoping that .

ok mate thank you . Colorado? I'd love to get out there England is soooooooo boring 

@Leigh Kettle

just had a great discussion with a PT I work with, and she said if delayed post soreness  pain is below a 4/10 scale then your okay. 

Keep an eye on it. If its more sore or more painful  post session next workout compared today, then back Off and decrease the weight. 

Great Ryan thank you 

yeah was definitely only a very mild 1/10 throb /warming sensation and wasn't so much delayed but rather soon after the exercise . It's subsided somewhat as we speak too 

Question to both of you: have either of you been using heat with their rehab? I was listening to 2nd podcast with coach on Tim Ferriss show earlier this morning and he was talking about using hot pads on tendon rehab. I know ice isn't useful past 24-48 hour but have never used hot pads much, might be worth adding it to your rehab routine.

6 minutes ago, Benjamin Renaud said:

Question to both of you: have either of you been using heat with their rehab? I was listening to 2nd podcast with coach on Tim Ferriss show earlier this morning and he was talking about using hot pads on tendon rehab. I know ice isn't useful past 24-48 hour but have never used hot pads much, might be worth adding it to your rehab routine.

Hey benjamin

i also heard the podcast and was particularly interested in where he talks about cycling between hot and cold . I have to be honest it's not something Im using at present but may well be worth adding in .. 

I'd definitely add heat at least. Cold might not be necessary considering you are well past the initial inflammatory stage. Cold might only "dumb" down the pain witch might not be good considering you need that indicator to know how your rehab program is going. The contrast protocol is probably best for use right at the time of injury, when the inflammatory response is underway. Also use of cold only seems to be controversial now, I've read that there is no proof that cold alone helps healing, and that it may even lead to your collagen fibers being laid down in a "patchwork" instead of nice linear fibers. So if you do use cold limit it to 5 minutes and under, or the 1-1 contrast cold/warm.

@Leigh Kettle @Benjamin Renaud

- heat is a good idea! On its own it doesnt do much wounders but heat in conjunction with appropriate strength work for your injury will be beneficial 

@Ryan Segervall

hey ryan how are you doing bro?

hows your rehab coming along?

little update for you since I've started your wrist/upper arm rehab routine couple weeks back. Already feeling sooooo much better . The best way i can describe it is they are feeling "lubricated" now and a lot lot better already . By no means out of the woods but looks like I'm on the right path so for that I thank you once again 

the only thing of note is that my right wrist feels a little sore . Do you think I may need to decrease the weight of the wrist work . Ironically before the last couple of days soreness I was feeling like I needed to increase it as it felt quite easy . (Currently on 2.5kg) also this has coincided with a small clicking/popping that literally only manifests itself during the twist of the stiff legged windmill on foundation as I'm raising back up . StrAnge as never had clicking in this wrist  before or doing any other movement with it only the windmill . And again strange as my other wrist is absolutely fine yet this one was the one that can click at times 

your thoughts as always very much appreciated 

Leigh 

@Leigh Kettle

- rehab is going really well. Days are pain free now, slowly working my way up to being able to train pushups again. Should be able to do full GB training by end of march beginning of april

- Stoked to hear things are feeling better! A little soreness is okay and good actually, its part of the process. If you need take an extra rest day until soreness subsides. No need to decrease weight for now, just give it some time for the soreness to go away. Heat will be your friend here. Or contrast shower would be even better. And I wouldnt worry about clicking in the wrists, thats relatively normal. Mine click too, it usually a sign that ligaments/tendons are tight and "popping" across bone. No significant damage is being done here.  

Do Keep me updated! Im so pleased to hear things are finally improving for you  

On 23/02/2017 at 4:56 AM, Ryan Segervall said:

@Leigh Kettle

- rehab is going really well. Days are pain free now, slowly working my way up to being able to train pushups again. Should be able to do full GB training by end of march beginning of april

 

- Stoked to hear things are feeling better! A little soreness is okay and good actually, its part of the process. If you need take an extra rest day until soreness subsides. No need to decrease weight for now, just give it some time for the soreness to go away. Heat will be your friend here. Or contrast shower would be even better. And I wouldnt worry about clicking in the wrists, thats relatively normal. Mine click too, it usually a sign that ligaments/tendons are tight and "popping" across bone. No significant damage is being done here.  

 

Do Keep me updated! Im so pleased to hear things are finally improving for you  

Awesome news Ryan so pleased you are now pain free during your daily activities. I can't imagine how great this must feel man . 

Thanks for your advice once again mate . Will keep up with the progtamme

leigh 

@Leigh Kettle Keep on hammering away with the rehab! and feel free to ask if you have any questions regarding symptoms ect. 

Thanks Ryan really appreciate it

literally just finished a rehab session feeling good bro thank you 

best wishes to you man 

@Leigh Kettle

Just checking in to see how the progress has been

- Any burning questions or concerns at the moment? 

4 hours ago, Ryan Segervall said:

@Leigh Kettle

Just checking in to see how the progress has been

- Any burning questions or concerns at the moment? 

Hey Ryan how are you man ?

Yeah progress is good bro. 

The only thing I'm experiencing is still that small twinge when I fully bend my arm and contract  (twisting my wrist In this position can highlight it more )but only really in one arm now but I understand that it's gonna take a long time so I'm fully aware I would still be feeling this . 

I've kept the weight/reps and sets  the same as you suggested and after 6-8 weeks i was gonna ask you whether this should increase or anything else need to change 

Can't thank you enough for the help you've given me . 

Hows things with you ? 

8 hours ago, Leigh Kettle said:

Hey Ryan how are you man ?

- I am so so so close to being 100% out of the woods. I can do incline pushups and rows pain free, and almost able to do the beginning straight arm work without any discomfort. Playing around with regressions to find the sweet spot for my straight arm work. None the lease I am training again and at the limit of the strength and endurance of the major muscle groups worked in the compound movements rather than my elbows. I've lost a ton of strength over these 18 months of misguided recovery, but happy to finally be back training  

8 hours ago, Leigh Kettle said:

 

The only thing I'm experiencing is still that small twinge when I fully bend my arm and contract  (twisting my wrist In this position can highlight it more )but only really in one arm now but I understand that it's gonna take a long time so I'm fully aware I would still be feeling this . 

-  Has the intensity of this "twinge" gone down at all over the weeks? 

8 hours ago, Leigh Kettle said:

 

I've kept the weight/reps and sets  the same as you suggested and after 6-8 weeks i was gonna ask you whether this should increase or anything else need to change 

- at week 6ish you can and should start playing with small increments in weight (2.5lbs) and see how your elbows take it. Also depending on how hard the exercises are for you, you can probably start playing around with small increments already. Its the big jumps, from doing say 20lb curls to doing full body weight pull ups that you want to be careful about, but small and safe increments either weekly or bi weekly, at this stage, would be totally appropriate. You really want to be chasing the pump on these exercises and getting as much blood into the area as possible. If your getting through the sessions with little fatigue/pump than I would start playing around with either increasing the amount of reps your doing per set, or the amount of weight you are moving. I would recommend Increasing reps per set first, before increasing the weight. Once you can do around 60 total repetitions of an exercise with a specific weight you are good to go ahead and bump the weight up (2.5lbs maybe 5lbs depending on the exercise). For the wrist curls I would stick to 2.5lb increases, biceps and triceps 5lbs increases would be okay as long as no sharp pain is induced.  

- As for increments in repetitions I taking increments of 4-8 total reps. 

for example of weekly increments

Week1: 3x10 total reps 30

week2: 3x12 total reps 36

week3: 4x10 total reps 40

week4: 4x12 total reps 48 

so on and so forth. 

Once you can do 4x15 with x weight, bump it up. 

4x15 = 60 total reps

- Also are you doing any of the GB upper body exercises currently? If so how are they feeling and which ones are you doing? 

Cheers, 

Ryan