How to improve dead-hang time?

22 hours ago, Coach Sommer said:

 

Hi James,

Completely inaccurate.

The best in the world use chalk.  You should too.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

It does make gripping the bar easier once you HAVE developed significant gripping strength.

I think James was going at people using chalk as a short cut for gripping the bar longer without putting in the necessary wrist/forearm work.

I would suggest that all variations and versions will help to develop the grip. Sometimes chalk (makes you hang longer, so the endurance strength improves), sometimes no chalk (makes you grip harder against those sweaty slippery palms, develops maximum grip), sometimes steel bar, sometimes wood, sometimes thin, sometimes thick diameter which gives different stimulus when the fingers are not fully flexed or thumb wrapped around. They all will present different elements and engage the muscles differently. 

I don't use chalk when I "practice" my grip strength, but when I am in my pole class and spending more time on the pole before I fall off is beneficial for me to master the move or trick, before I fall on my head, ha ha,  I use so much chalk that it is white all around me  

7 hours ago, James Coppola said:

Think about it, why do people use chalk, why do people use straps? To improve their grip strength.

1. Chalk is not the same as using straps... you still have to grip yourself! Chalk doesn't "stick"

2. If you have sweaty skin the grip simply gets uncontrollable; its more like driving on black ice, has nothing to do with the power of your brake.

Unless you're specifically working on your grip, struggling with slippery bars takes away from your primary exercise. It can also be a safety issue - I certainly don't want to do e.g. Korean dips with sweaty hands and risk a face-plant.

There seems to be some confusion here, chalk is not like a strap.

Chalk makes your skin dry, which becomes less prone to folding and abrasion than sweaty moist skin. It makes training safer for your hands. You can't train your grip if you rip your calluses. Even outside gymnastics, plenty of strong people who deadlift huge tons of weight that most of us need a car to transport use chalk for their lifts and their grip is fine. Rocks climbers use chalk, gymnasts use chalk. Even Ironmind CoC gripper certification can be done with chalk.

It doesn't mean that for something simple like a couple of sets of 5 pullups you always need to chalk your hands.

I get that people might say not using chalk makes gripping harder. Usually harder = better is right and is encouraged if you want to be successful at your training, however this needs to be balanced with making sure that you can continue to train regularly. Not fun training with a injured hand (as an aside, it always bothers me in movies and tv series, when the heroes need to perform something that requires blood and then they slash their palm... like what the heck are you doing !?! You're gonna be fighting the monsters in the next scene, are you insane, one can barely prepare dinner with a sliced palm).

EDIT: Additionally, I forgot this important point, that most people who are serious about grip training, will use chalk for their specific work, because it makes the sets consistent. Otherwise when you have to log your grip workout, you have to log the state of your hands "dry, kinda moist, sweaty, slick, etc..." which you can see will become a hassle.

9 hours ago, Coach Sommer said:

Hi James,

When you are as strong as those who use chalk, without using chalk, you will have proven your point.  Until then, your supposition is simply a beginner's unsupported opinion.  Feel free to experiment though.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I agree that I am no where near as strong as an Olympic gymnast or even a street workout athlete but I do have my own beliefs so I will continue to not use chalk. This is just my way of training. 

15 hours ago, James Coppola said:

I disagree, the primary reason people use chalk is to improve their grip strength just like how weightlifters use straps. 

Weightlifters don't use straps to improve their grip strength, they use them to be able to hold the bar longer so that they get more time under tension with things like heavy RDLs (and some OLY lifts, though I'm not experienced there). Just like gymnasts use grips and chalk. They're doing exercises such that they don't want grip to be a limiting factor.

I get what you're saying though. I say switch it up and expose your body to everything, but I certainly am not going to go fly on some rings with no chalk.

19 hours ago, Patrick Rentz said:

Weightlifters don't use straps to improve their grip strength, they use them to be able to hold the bar longer so that they get more time under tension with things like heavy RDLs

Not everybody uses straps to get more time under tension. There are people who literally cannot hold the bar with the weight off the ground because their grip strength is not strong enough. 

2 hours ago, James Coppola said:

Not everybody uses straps to get more time under tension. There are people who literally cannot hold the bar with the weight off the ground because their grip strength is not strong enough. 

Well then they'd be increasing their time under tension from 0 to something that's not zero...

5 minutes ago, Patrick Rentz said:

Well then they'd be increasing their time under tension from 0 to something that's not zero...

True. I won't ever be using chalk or straps or belts and all that stuff but I'm not going to force anyone to. Train the way you want to.

This is verging on ridiculous. Coach and I have pitched in already. I think it's safe to say the original question has been answered and we don't really need to delve into chalk vs straps for weightlifting

I am the original poster and just want to share my little progress report… I started to do the "Ido's hanging challenge" and today finished day 8 (out of 30). I hang 7 (accumulated) minutes  a day. While it seems like nothing, it was quite hard for me in the beginning. Now getting used to the load and my hands finally stopped hurting. It was one big 8-day tiredness/pain… My ring rows seem already much easier, like I have more pulling power. Yay. And my different stall bar iMs feels easier on the higher level of difficulty (fewer rungs between hands and feet). I am excited. I still have more than twice as much to go, so I am super curious how I and my hands will feel at the end of this challenge. 

Great to hear Suzanna!

Everyone should be looking into hanging more often if they have the deadhang mobility. Like you experienced hanging provides tremendous benefits other gripping like rows, pull ups, chin hangs and hanging leg raises.

On 26/10/2016 at 0:29 AM, James Coppola said:

True. I won't ever be using chalk or straps or belts and all that stuff but I'm not going to force anyone to. Train the way you want to.

Chalk actually has a lower estimated coefficient of friction than skin according to the studies I've seen for rock climbing so it doesn't make your grip stronger, it effectively lowers your level of grip very marginally. The main benefit is it moves the friction from your hand surface to the chalk so that you suffer less damage to your skin. It also takes up excess moisture. End result, fewer skin tears, more time training, greater improvement in strength.

5 hours ago, Paul Wallbridge said:

Chalk actually has a lower estimated coefficient of friction than skin according to the studies I've seen for rock climbing so it doesn't make your grip stronger, it effectively lowers your level of grip very marginally. The main benefit is it moves the friction from your hand surface to the chalk so that you suffer less damage to your skin. It also takes up excess moisture. End result, fewer skin tears, more time training, greater improvement in strength.

That's interesting. I wonder if it's different for skin on a bar (especially a bar without heavy knurling) as rocks may be more likely to absorb moisture from your hands than a bar..?

Relatedly I have seen some people rationalize the adrenaline-->sweaty palm reaction to imply a better grip when the moisture dries a bit (like when you lick your fingers before throwing a ball, or before gripping something our ancestors might have).

My grip right now is rock solid on a pull up bar. In fact recently I have noticed that I can grip everyday objects with more ease. I'm also doing deadhang holds with 4 fingers, on each hand, at the end of my training. It's so fun!

During winter when I trained it was in the morning so it was quite cold for me. Gripping on the bars were a lot harder so I think that may have increased my grip strength quite a bit. 

Suzanna, I found some interesting piece of advise in a pod cast from Tim Ferris with Pavel Tsautsoline
http://fourhourworkweek.com/2015/01/15/pavel-tsatsouline/
When your grip is about to open "white knuckle" it with all you got for 5more seconds or for as long as you can. Use core strength and body tension paired with right breathing to max out. I was surprised by how much more is in the tank sometimes.
The thick grips you mentioned to add diameter to bars are a good tool to increase grip strength. Also hanging from a thick towel, thick rope. False grip also challenges the forearms a lot. I keep a tennis ball to squeeze in different ways and "white knuckle" it while I'm on the go or have a free hand at work. 
 

These are what my hands currently look like. I haven't used chalk in a long time and I always listen to my body so my hands never bleed or develop a crazy amount of calluses.

This guy uses chalk:

His grip seems fine to me.

Mashed potato with a little chalk on a top of it  yum

Wait a minute... I know I'm new here, but did I wander into the Thrive forum?

Hi @David Eiche,

Welcome. This is Foundation One forum. 

On 31/10/2016 at 11:20 PM, Christian Nogueira said:

This guy uses chalk:

 

 

His grip seems fine to me.

He makes it look easy. I tried it thinking that it would be a piece of cake but no definitely not the case haha.

That's Tommy Heslep, guy can close a Captain of Crush #4, which is world class.