Xiaopengs

anyone know what the position of the scapula should be during this movement? would I be correct in saying you want to keep it depressed the whole way through the movement?

1 hour ago, Daniel Miles said:

anyone know what the position of the scapula should be during this movement? would I be correct in saying you want to keep it depressed the whole way through the movement?

Hi Daniel,

Actually exactly the opposite; elevate!!!

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

So I've been on this the last few days following Coach's comments.

Strict and slow I maxed out at 3.75kg x5r (and I'm sweating). 5kg is too heavy for me. This is a wakeup call from using 10-12kg for 'weighted arm swings'.

The interesting thing is that it has cramped out the muscles around and below my scaps-- 'sits' -- and given me a significantly different feeling of activation in traps, lats and scaps around my weaker/previously impinged shoulder. Handstands and front levers felt immediately better (activation improvements hurrah). I am as always floored by the difference a relatively tiny tweak can make-- I am pleased with the immediate fallout and look forward to seeing what will happen when it has time to consolidate and strengthen

Jon... for those of us not able to adequately visualise the changes you incorporated using Coach's comments, any chance of you posting a video? Thanks!

4 hours ago, Bill Marr said:

Jon... for those of us not able to adequately visualise the changes you incorporated using Coach's comments, any chance of you posting a video? Thanks!

I'll see what i can do later today.

If I have this right, and the doms around one scapula today indicate that I do, it's pretty much ensuring it is lifted and lowered in extension (similar to hspe2im or the opposite of lowering into a German hang ). To achieve that you need to consciously change your shoulder position with motion very similar to a single arm dislocate, as early as possible when going backwards and as late as possible coming forwards. The torso twist comes as pretty much the only way you're going to get much higher than shoulder level with it  

Incorporating an active elevation throughout may change it slightly more; I'll have to test that as it may well necessitate dropping the weight even further .

2 hours ago, Jon Douglas said:

I'll see what i can do later today.

If I have this right, and the doms around one scapula today indicate that I do, it's pretty much ensuring it is lifted and lowered in extension (similar to hspe2im or the opposite of lowering into a German hang ). To achieve that you need to consciously change your shoulder position with motion very similar to a single arm dislocate, as early as possible when going backwards and as late as possible coming forwards. The torso twist comes as pretty much the only way you're going to get much higher than shoulder level with it  

Incorporating an active elevation throughout may change it slightly more; I'll have to test that as it may well necessitate dropping the weight even further .

 

Gonna make me run to the store to find 5lb weights man.....lol

I've been working on these Xiopengs with Coach's more advanced tip in my head. Curious to hear if I am on a right track or missing the idea how it is supposed to be done. Trying to do the most of the shoulder rotation while my arm is still really close to the head, before the arms goes down. @Coach Sommer, is this what you meant? 

From my understanding the idea is to have full external rotation, just before your arm reaches vertical. So there might be some torso rotation to achieve that angle.
Then from vertical to just after vertical you internal rotate like you are, but go a bit further. Instead of just palm down to the floor you'll have thumb down to the floor and palm facing towards your other arm. And you want the thumb down position from as high up as possible.

I think the idea coach has is rather than focusing on the weight being perfectly horizontal on the way up and back down, to shift that focus completely rotating the shoulder through it's range. Because the shoulder can rotate past that horizontal range. We're trying to maximize the amount of rotation in the joint.

I see what you mean, @Ronnicky Roy… I can definitely rotate (internally) my arm much more in the back, even more than you say, to a point the my palm is almost up… (It's almost similar feeling like the maximum rotation during the windmills… only the forces are different… ) I was purposely holding the weight parallel, and my thumb is down (but I guess it is just a matter what we think of "thumb down".  I now understand your "thumb down" version). Thanks!!!  I wish some advanced Xiopenger (what a cool word) would post a video so we can see what is possible/expected

Lol yea. It makes sense tho. Most people are somewhat rounded back, with internally rotated shoulders. So the hard part is actually external rotation.

Tried some of Coach's cues the other day......aaaaaand I'm down to 1 kg.

On 10/22/2016 at 3:52 AM, Steven Gilmore said:

I think this is what the coach meant. Thumb down, like all improvements I'm noticing, makes it harder! 

I had a look at the tutorial and Wes said, 'palm down' on the extension and on the follow along they both had palm down on the extension so I may well be barking up the wrong tree.

 

Did you ever get any feedback on this @Steven Gilmore? Great video and I'm very curious if this is the correct Xiaopeng form @Coach Sommer was describing.

My thumb down version:

10 minutes ago, Suzanna McGee said:

My thumb down version:

 

 

Thanks @Suzanna McGee -- this looks similar to @Steven Gilmore's interpretation -- I also wonder if it is useful to do both forms, as presumably each works slightly different aspects of the shoulder, though the "thumbs-down" is harder overall.

@Mike Bowerman, yes, I still do both versions. Like you say, they are slightly different, and I am still not sure that this "thumb down" version is how @Coach Sommer meant it… none of the coaches commented yet, so I am not sure and do both, just to be safe

For any former and or current competitive swimmers... While keeping your arm straight through the full range of motion. The overall arm movement for Xiaopeng backward is similar to arm movement for freestyle stroke. The arm movement for Xiaopeng forward is similar to the general arm movement of back stroke. One big difference would be the rotation of your upper arm when it is even with your ear. 

Generally speaking... for anyone that does not already know competitive swimming strokes favor internal rotation of the upper arm. The opposite is true for gymnastic endeavors.   Swimmer's prefer internal rotation of the upper arm so that a swimmer is capable of reaching across and as deep into the water possible. I am guessing external rotation is favored, in gymnastics, due to increased joint stability when needed.

On 11/5/2016 at 10:56 AM, Mike Bowerman said:

Did you ever get any feedback on this @Steven Gilmore? Great video and I'm very curious if this is the correct Xiaopeng form @Coach Sommer was describing.

Hi Mike Bowerman,

No I haven't heard yet so am just doing palm down like the video. Hoping a coach will chip in here sometime or hopefully Coach Sommer.

Aren't these just arm circles holding a weight?

Now it finally starts to make sense I am having so much trouble with this progression. Using a 5kg dumbell since the start and these always destroy me.  

19 hours ago, Daniel Taylor-Shaut said:

Aren't these just arm circles holding a weight?

Lol I love it. I think the entirety of F1-F2 can be summed up into quips like this. "Isn't a deck squat just rolling backwards and standing up?" 

I would say "yes of course" but also with the caveat "if you're doing them right." Think about all the cues for pushups: elbows in, shoulders protracted at the top, PPT & flat back, solid body line for each rep. Whether you follow those cues or not a pushup is "just a pushup" and inherently simple. Only one version sets you up for success in the following elements though.

Hi Mike,

As Daniel already pointed out, the exercise demonstrated by Steven is merely an arm circle and not a Xiaopeng.

Note that there is no shoulder extension with the palm down shown at any portion of his movement.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

so the idea with this exercise is to treat it more like a 1 arm dislocate? that is the interpretation I got.  going from flexion to overhead rotating into negative extension with palm down and as little rotation of the body as possible.  if you rotate the torso too much then it becomes more of an abducted arm than an extended one. is this correct?

Hey Andrew,

Sounds like you've got it. It is still a bit different than a dislocate. Especially if you go thumbs down while in extension.

21 minutes ago, Everett Carroll said:

Hey Andrew,

Sounds like you've got it. It is still a bit different than a dislocate. Especially if you go thumbs down while in extension.

Everett, @Jon Douglas, could you maybe post a short video how it is supposed to be done? Pretty please? We all read the description, think we understand, but then it shows that we visualize it differently… I just did a google search for advanced Xiaopengs, didn't find anything… 

2 hours ago, Suzanna McGee said:

Everett, @Jon Douglas, could you maybe post a short video how it is supposed to be done? Pretty please? We all read the description, think we understand, but then it shows that we visualize it differently… I just did a google search for advanced Xiaopengs, didn't find anything… 

Right, here is a quick and dirty;

Its not pretty , taken in one spur of the moment shot, but I think it contains the pertinent points.

Angle is a little unfortunate, just stay vertical, don't arch and keep the ribs down.