carryover from gymnastics to GPP

i am now following that forum for quite a while, i enjoyed reading it and got quite a lot of information on gymnastics. besids it helped me immense with my training as accompanied to the book.

i know that we already had some similar discussions like weightlifting vs gymnastics gymnastics for CF and so on from these discussions emerged as essential points that

a) gymnastics is superior to traditional weight training because moving your body controlled through space does carryover to weight lifting but not vice versa. this is particular true for upper body strength in terms of lower body strength weight training is superior because gymnastics can not replicate the hip strength produced by heavy squats or deadlifts because SLSQ can not tax the posterior chain like weight training (see vertical leap of gymnasts)

b) gymnasts are very capable of GPP besids vertical leap

c) the best combination for GPP would be gymnastics coupled with weightlifting for hip strength and explosiveness

but i would like to have that discussion in an other direction:

1. what is the best bang for the buck in terms of time?

2. what is the deal with straight arm strength and handstandwork like press to handstand which is can only be trained with gymnastics

my thoughts

1. and 2. are related to each other. if straight arm strength/press HS is important for GPP (which i think it is not) than gymnastics is at least a very good bang for the buck in terms of time because you can train things which are important for GPP that you can not train with other methods. but otherwise gymnastics is not very apropriate in terms of the time-benefit factor because 1. gymanstics needs to be limited to the bend arm movements and maybe some basic tumbling which makes it than to noting special because things like rope climbing pullups/dips/muscle ups are allready very present in the GPP community and 2. if one really wants to learn gymnastics to be called a gymnast there are a lot of skills to master: just think of handstands they need a lot of time compared to simple squatting or sprinting esp. in terms of the time-benefit factor....

about 2. in particular:

maybe straight arm movements have a good carryover for throwing? i remember Andreas Thorkildsen (javelin) Andreas Thorkildsen (viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2342).

in regards of press HS: i think HSPU full ROM are enough?

but in the end i have to admit that i am writing this for a personal reason too. i think i need to cut off all my straight arm/non-very-basic gymnastics training because i simply lack the time to do it. because i need some type of GPP and just Gymnastic Strength Training™ like ring routines, levers, cross, planche, HS does not deliver it in regards of the time-benefit factor...unfortunaly

i am looking forwards to your thoughts

have a happy new year!

nospam said:

1. what is the best bang for the buck in terms of time?

2. what is the deal with straight arm strength and handstandwork like press to handstand which is can only be trained with gymnastics

1. It depends on how you want to measure your progress. If you measure your progress in terms of how capable you are of performing physical tasks in the real world, gymnastics is by far faster and more effective when following a proper program. The answer to this question always depends on your personal training program. If you are training your handstands, PPP, L-sit, HLL, pull ups, FL, BL, yewkis, inverted curls, body levers, SLS and NLC/GHR pretty evenly, you're going to be kicking ass in a hurry. If you are unbalanced with this then you're going to have problems.

You will see improvements on barbell and dumbbell work as well, if you bench mark yourself once a month to check, but you'll always have better progress in the weight room if that's where you work. Unfortunately, that's not going to do as much for your overall fitness level in terms of real world, random task performance as gymnastic training will.

2. Straight arm work is all about strengthening the connective tissue. This is very, very important and should not be skipped. You say you don't have the time, but you don't need much time. Straight arm static work doesn't require much recovery time and can be done in-between workouts at random times. Doing a planche lean or a set of frogstand a few times while you take a break at work is all it takes. You need to re-evaluate how you spend your time, because you will find that you can fit in L-sits here, frog stands there, manna while your eggs are cooking, etc. Time exists, you just have to take advantage of it.

As for the HS presses, that's an advanced skill and certainly isn't a requirement for developing good GPP, but it WILL enhance your GPP if you take the time to master it.

I personally think you're confusing the time it takes to move up the progressions with the time it takes to make strength gains. The strength gains come steadily. The progressions take more time because you need a certain amount of strength for each one, and it takes time to reach that level.

I'm lost. GPP? I bet it's going to be really obvious.

General Physical Preparedness.

Seiji said:

I'm lost. GPP? I bet it's going to be really obvious.

lol! I was mystified too!

slizzardman said:

nospam said:

1. what is the best bang for the buck in terms of time?

2. what is the deal with straight arm strength and handstandwork like press to handstand which is can only be trained with gymnastics

1. It depends on how you want to measure your progress. If you measure your progress in terms of how capable you are of performing physical tasks in the real world, gymnastics is by far faster and more effective when following a proper program. The answer to this question always depends on your personal training program. If you are training your handstands, PPP, L-sit, HLL, pull ups, FL, BL, yewkis, inverted curls, body levers, SLS and NLC/GHR pretty evenly, you're going to be kicking ass in a hurry. If you are unbalanced with this then you're going to have problems.

You will see improvements on barbell and dumbbell work as well, if you bench mark yourself once a month to check, but you'll always have better progress in the weight room if that's where you work. Unfortunately, that's not going to do as much for your overall fitness level in terms of real world, random task performance as gymnastic training will.

2. Straight arm work is all about strengthening the connective tissue. This is very, very important and should not be skipped. You say you don't have the time, but you don't need much time. Straight arm static work doesn't require much recovery time and can be done in-between workouts at random times. Doing a planche lean or a set of frogstand a few times while you take a break at work is all it takes. You need to re-evaluate how you spend your time, because you will find that you can fit in L-sits here, frog stands there, manna while your eggs are cooking, etc. Time exists, you just have to take advantage of it.

As for the HS presses, that's an advanced skill and certainly isn't a requirement for developing good GPP, but it WILL enhance your GPP if you take the time to master it.

I personally think you're confusing the time it takes to move up the progressions with the time it takes to make strength gains. The strength gains come steadily. The progressions take more time because you need a certain amount of strength for each one, and it takes time to reach that level.

Great advise. Thanks a lot Slizdmn