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James Coppola

Paleo, Vegan, Vegetarian and the Conventional Diet...

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Stuart Stegall

I do 2 cups of veggies per meal, 4x a day (separate from any carb-y veggies like potatoes.)  I also try to meet the 1-1/2c of dark green veggies and 5-1/2c of orange/red veggies per week.  I do about 28 oz of lean proteins a day along with a serving or two of fats like nuts/olive oil/etc.  Then I fill out with around 200g of carbs from whole grains/rice/fruit.  Fruits are normally just in the workout before/after.  I also drink a whey+carb shake JUST before/during my workout and then finally a caesin shake right before bed/teeth brushing.  

Right now I'm cutting around 500 kcal/day.  Anyways loads of fun.

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Jeff Serven

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts Ryan

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Jeff Serven
On October 26, 2016 at 0:27 PM, Suzanna McGee said:

My Facebook is flooded with my pictures of the food I eat, so it is nothing I would just make up to keep people entertained… btw, the 30 lbs of persimmons last me for a few days. That's my obsession…  of course, besides GST, ha ha

 

Okay, 30 pounds of perssimons in 3 days? There is 480 ounces in 30 pounds. In 480 ounces of permissions there is 2500 grams of carbs, thats 10,000 calories of carbs. So thats 3,333.33 calories of carbs per day in persimmons. And, this is on top of 3-5 pound meals? Hmmmm......

https://www.caloriecount.com/calories-persimmon-i9263

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Stuart Stegall
1 hour ago, Jeff Serven said:

Okay, 30 pounds of permissions in 3 days? There is 480 ounces in 30 pounds. In 480 ounces of permissions there is 2500 grams of carbs, thats 10,000 calories of carbs. So thats 3,333.33 calories of carbs per day in persimmons. And, this is on top of 3-5 pound meals? Hmmmm......

https://www.caloriecount.com/calories-persimmon-i9263

That's like just the meat though right?  So like waaay less actual meat per persimmon.  I have no clue what the meat to skin and nut yield is as I've never had one.  I do get where you are going though.

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Suzanna McGee
3 hours ago, Jeff Serven said:

Okay, 30 pounds of permissions in 3 days? There is 480 ounces in 30 pounds. In 480 ounces of permissions there is 2500 grams of carbs, thats 10,000 calories of carbs. So thats 3,333.33 calories of carbs per day in persimmons. And, this is on top of 3-5 pound meals? Hmmmm......

https://www.caloriecount.com/calories-persimmon-i9263

First, I didn't say in 3 days, but "In a few days"… Second, a pound of persimmons is 315 calories. I eat 3,500 a day, so theoretically, I could eat 11 or so pounds of persimmons per day. I don't eat that many, but when the season starts and I am very excited, I eat definitely 6–8 pounds a day. The persimmon season is very short, so I just go for it. A few months of pleasure. And third, I don't eat my 8 pounds of persimmons in addition to my 3--5 pound meals. I am not an idiot. I adjust my  meals according to calories eaten (that's the great thing about logging everything). If I have 4 mono-meals of persimmons, I don't eat that much other stuff. BTW, 4 meals of 2 lbs persimmons is only 2,450 calories, so I still have room for much more food... or persimmons :)  Why are you fighting me so much on this?  Let me enjoy my volumes :) btw, I have 2 lbs of pears here while typing this :)

1 hour ago, Stuart Stegall said:

That's like just the meat though right?  So like waaay less actual meat per persimmon.  I have no clue what the meat to skin and nut yield is as I've never had one.  I do get where you are going though.

Yeah, where is he going?? lol

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Jeff Serven

More power to ya' for doing it for as long as you have. I'm not fighting you, I'm just not quite understanding the rationale behind your decisions. 

To each his own. 

But, if you don't want to be questioned then you shouldn't post the stuff on the internet. 

*note: I should have considered the meat yielded  per fruit. My mistake there. 

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Suzanna McGee

I have just evolved into this. I became vegetarian when I started to play intense tennis. Then I became plant-based. Then I started to eat more and more raw foods, because I found them yummy and I felt really great at the same time. Then I realized what a beautifully simple life it is. Not too much cooking and lengthy meal preparations. Easy to plan, just grab a few pounds of fruits and take it with me if I am on the go. It turns out that it keeps me greatly energized, recovering really well, and letting me train hard, 7 days a week. What is it not to like? I don't mind people questioning me, I like them to understand the plant-based lifestyle. Your questioning was not the "curious" kind though, like other people have. That's why I asked... But it's all good. Like you say, whatever works for you, and whatever works for me. I gladly help and guide those who are interested, and not going to bother convincing those who are not. We all are evolving and are at different stages in our lives. As I am aging, I think I appreciate health and longevity much more then when I was much younger :) 

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Ryan Bailey

My 24-hr Raw Vegan trial is over:

toil.jpg

 

 

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Suzanna McGee

Ha ha, @Ryan Bailey, this is so funny. I saw your post when I was still in the gym, and I burst in laugh so loudly… then I was giggling the rest of the afternoon.. I guess, Borat would say, "Great Success!!!"  LOL

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Ryan Bailey

Alright... here is my serious critique from my experience; learning about raw vegan while doing it for a day:
Just to review, I figured I would challenge my suspicions by trying this approach (eating only raw, plant foods for a day while training twice) and then sharing some thoughts. I had many questions at the end of the 24 hr period.

Meal #1 Summary:   High Carb, Low Protein, Low Fat, Low Fun.

Although ready to eat, my body rejected the idea off the huge mass of food sitting in front of me and I lost my apetite... while hungry, imediately... (Not good)
As I stared at all the food, I did some quick math: I figured, if I ate all these 4 meals this would be the total:
3,200 calories,
700g of carb, 160g of fiber and that's without adding any fruit...-ok tomato is a fruit.
16g fat!

Where is the diversity of fats?
I instantly had other questions such as the roll of fat (which was seriously lacking) and its need for improved absorption of certain nutrients found in all these veggies.
So, I needed to modify and I went for nutrient density and higher fat foods right away while remaining within the raw vegan boundaries.
Here are the raw foods I ate for the day:
Sweet potato, plantain, coconut, kale, swiss chard, cabbage, apple, avocado, nuts, banana, flax, lemon, cilantro, and winter squash seeds (Yes I ate the innards of the Acorn squash; it had one of the best amino acid profiles in the overall poor amino meal plan.)
Which brings me to the topic of protein:
Low protein; only .49g/kg!
Essential Amino acids: where the hell are they? Sure some of the pairing of various foods helped to complete some of the missing proteins, but the amounts were pathetically low.
The amount of carb consumption was not worth the expense of the low protein trade-off.
Fat again:
Ratio of Omega 6:3 was all out of wack. I could have added more flax, or chia. But that is primarily composed of ALA, not DHA.
Plus we do not convert ALA to DHA as efficient as say the chicken with its conversion of DHA into the egg following an intake of seeds in their diet.
Throughout the day, I was eating very nice foods, but was starting to feel I needed a gut rest and kept thinking about timing and questions of Fat burning vs. Sugar burning?
Summary:
Needless to say, I never was able to finish that meal #1 (my picture in the previous post) throughout the entire 24 hours and more questions were raised at the end of the day.
Here are some totals (Only 2,300 calories and a whopping 73g fiber consumed, Carb: 256g, Protein:45g, Fat 168g, "0" Cholesterol )
In the end:
1) Where is B12?
2) Where is DHA?
3) Where is good balance of Omega 6:3 ratio?
4) Protein levels, optimal for protein synthesis? Essential amino acids?
(Do not tell me the lazy answer of supplimentation for these questions, when there are many quality options around our food landscape to choose from without needing a suppliment at the base of a program.)
Sustainability note: If I followed through on my original raw vegan meal idea, I would have eaten through my entire winter stash of starches and other veggie carbs in a month or two. The unbalanced compositions of food types left me somewhat hungry but not wanting to eat. All these foods were wonderful and some are already a part of my usual eating habits. But, something weird started to happen as I was so full in the belly, I did not want to eat more of the same. I knew with each bight I was further throwing all my above points out of balance.
This all lead me to my final discovery and analysis of my day's eating plan: In the end, my experience reflected the following trajectory:
Hypocalorie + low protein = lean body mass breakdown with intense exercise.
 No bueno.
For me, my tweeks on the situation, I could have simply modified all these wonderful foods with the following: maybe backed off a little bit on the seed and nut food groups, maybe diversified calories by adding small servings of cooked starches to increase the energy and possibly add just a few servings of maybe coldwater fish, or a few eggs and the day's training would have ran a lot smoother.

In general, there was a lack of culinary curiosity and imagination; if that's important.

Also, It was daunting not trying my hot wild mushroom-pheasant stock that I prepared fresh from the previous day, sitting on my kitchen counter... or the cold, raw ahi tuna resting in the fridge. It did not make sense for me to deny participation with such foods that would have made the day much more enjoyable.

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Suzanna McGee

Beginners' issues. If you wanted to keep doing it (I am not forcing you), you would have figured it out with time. Or reading what other thriving raw athletes do…  I sprout my lentils and other legumes. It's a great source of protein so I get much more than you ate. Adding pumpkin seeds or hemp seeds adds protein too. Peas… Spirulina, chlorella, and all leafy veggies have quite a lot protein, surprisingly.  For my omegas' balance, I vary flax seeds, chia seeds, avocado, almonds, etc.  Yea, B12 could be a problem. But it could be for non-vegans too. The difference in deficiency numbers isn't that big. Occasionally I may supplement. 

Adding those (sprouted) lentils and fruits adds more calories, so you don't need to explode from the volume. You are not used to it. The body will get used to it over time, but what do you expect on your first day?  You can also eat (raw) sweet potatoes/yams (super yummy) for more calorie density. 

It was a great experiment, but would need a lot of fine-tuning if you wanted to thrive… kind of like a beginner GSTer, it takes a lot of practice and fine-tuning before you get that stuff down. You can't expect mastery on the first try :)

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Ryan Bailey

Wouldn't it be common for the average beginner to lack mathionene by mistaking they are getting enough protein amino acids from the lentils you suggested? I suppose one could eat a dozen spoonfulls of sunflower seeds, or brazil nuts loaded with phytates, whereas a small amount of meat has it all covered in this regard. If you add brazil nuts to balance the aminos, do you soak them?

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Suzanna McGee

@Ryan Bailey, personally, I don't "worry" about methionine, because lower levels of it are beneficial for cancer prevention and expanding the life span. Plant foods are much lower on methionine, but that is a good thing. I am not going to talk here about cancers and how lower level of methionine will starve them here on this forum,  but if you are interested, look at Dr. Gregor's videos (with all the necessary studies, if you want to see them):  http://nutritionfacts.org/2014/07/08/a-low-methionine-diet-may-help-starve-cancer-cells/ There is also a bunch of stuff there about the longevity and other interesting things. 

Answering your question, if I am not too lazy, I do soak and sprout my nuts (they are easier to digest) but I must admit I don't do it each time. For no reason. Just lazy :( To get all the amino acids, it is important to vary my sources and mix it up.

Also, regarding your full tummy when you did your experiment, here comes good time to juice some of the green stuff, if you really want to get more nourishment in and still have a light digestion. I forgot to mention that in my previous post. 

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Ryan Bailey
23 hours ago, Suzanna McGee said:

Also, regarding your full tummy when you did your experiment, here comes good time to juice some of the green stuff, if you really want to get more nourishment in and still have a light digestion

Bob Marley describes best what I went through, "Them belly full, (but we hungry)."

So let me get this straight... the gut is full and saying "I need a rest", while the physiology of the body is saying "I am hungry", or in need of more nutrients  to feel complete, or satisfied.

And, the solution is predigesting even more raw material through a mechanical device that is plugged into a wall (because the gut is already overwhelmed), and then choking it down in order to get in the necessary nutrients of the day?

No thanks. I would rather take the time to prepare a satiating meal and enjoy chewing the food; while listening to this song:

 

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Suzanna McGee

Transitioning into something new and different is always hard. Juicing would have been one of the solution, which you eventually don't need. Obviously, you are not transitioning anywhere (other than Bob Marley's world) so I am not going to present any more ideas. I am glad you tried it. Your observation was like my observation when I tried it for the first time several years ago. I gave up after 3 days….  I revisited years later, figured it out, and thriving now. At least it was an interesting experience for you ;) Keep denaturing your food on a device that is plugged into a wall… and keep them belly full :)

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Ryan Bailey

Nice learning from you @Suzanna McGee. We need more girls out here that are fit, like to exercise, and have such the tenacity for good foods that you have. Good luck with your nutrition and thanks for sharing so much!

next topic....

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Sean Murphey
On 10/26/2016 at 9:05 PM, Ryan Bailey said:

rawvegan.jpg

 

Quoting because this looks great.

Now fry those greens with some pork neck bones or ham hocks and you'll really have my attention.

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Tanya Hill

Sean, that sounds amazing! 

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Ian Macleod

Took awhile to get caught up on this thread. haha, Lots of information coming from so many backgrounds. If you did eat the kind of volume of food some are speaking of, it would for sure take alot of time to get used to.
I know to eat like that here in Seoul, would be incredibly pricey if eating more western fruits/veggies. I might have to try it once with some asian foods, just to "experiment" with the volume.

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Stuart Stegall

I definitely think doing anything with that amount of vegetable would have to be done one part personal garden one part local veggies only.  Biggest issue for me would be protein, but I understand some people accept non-cooked fermented foods.  Doing that you can eat fermented soybeans, legumes and wheat which will massively increase the bioavailability of the proteins and fats.

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Suzanna McGee

Yes, @Stuart Stegall, fermented and sprouted. Sprouting is really simple, I have a few jars laying on my counter and sprouting all year around. It is also very inexpensive. @Ian MacDonald, I am lucky that now I live in Venice Beach, California, and fruits and vegetables are available all year around, lots of local and organic is also not too expensive. So I am just taking advantage of where I live. However, my mom lives in Slovakia, and also figured out how to eat lots of veggies and fruits… The volume is actually not that difficult, because fruits and veggies have a lot of water, so you don't really feel full. I would not be able to eat this volume if I ate dense foods, like rice, pasta, breads, etc. 

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Suzanna McGee

.

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Jasper Shin

Hi, I had a question for this forum and felt it may be a good place to ask.

I've personally been doing my best to adhere to a vegan diet for the past year and have had many noticeable benefits such as losing 20-30 lbs, curing my insomnia, and helping combat depression.

My two questions are: Do any of the vegan members here do anything in particular that helps them adhere to the diet especially when family members are against it? Or when meat products and the like are around, any strategies which help avoid consumption?

Second, are there any recommendations for eating whole-food plant-based protein and fat intake? I've been feeling drowsiness in the afternoons and noticing I feel a bit more tired recently but I'm not sure why. I've been experimenting with decreasing sugar intake but am fairly new to the world of diet and health with no positive role models in my family.

Any and all advice is EXTREMELY appreciated. I hope this is ok to post here!

Thank you in advance!!!

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Ryan Bailey
8 hours ago, Jasper Shin said:

I've been experimenting with decreasing sugar intake but am fairly new to the world of diet and health with no positive role models in my family.

Any and all advice is EXTREMELY appreciated. I hope this is ok to post here!

Hi Jasper,

Yes Its ok to post here! You are the positive role model in your family because it appears you are asking nutrition questions in a journey to find out what is best for YOU. Others here on this forum will probably give you some good insights to your specific questions.

Ryan

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Alex Pisaturo
On 10/28/2016 at 11:45 PM, Suzanna McGee said:

Beginners' issues. If you wanted to keep doing it (I am not forcing you), you would have figured it out with time. Or reading what other thriving raw athletes do…  I sprout my lentils and other legumes. It's a great source of protein so I get much more than you ate. Adding pumpkin seeds or hemp seeds adds protein too. Peas… Spirulina, chlorella, and all leafy veggies have quite a lot protein, surprisingly.  For my omegas' balance, I vary flax seeds, chia seeds, avocado, almonds, etc.  Yea, B12 could be a problem. But it could be for non-vegans too. The difference in deficiency numbers isn't that big. Occasionally I may supplement. 

Adding those (sprouted) lentils and fruits adds more calories, so you don't need to explode from the volume. You are not used to it. The body will get used to it over time, but what do you expect on your first day?  You can also eat (raw) sweet potatoes/yams (super yummy) for more calorie density. 

It was a great experiment, but would need a lot of fine-tuning if you wanted to thrive… kind of like a beginner GSTer, it takes a lot of practice and fine-tuning before you get that stuff down. You can't expect mastery on the first try :)

Ma'am,

I am curious on your thoughts on Omega 3s from the flaxseeds, chia seeds, etc.  In all that I've read, the benefit of the Omega 3s is the conversion of them into EPA and DHA.  However, in an omnivoric human diet, about 3% or less is converted from Omega 3 to EPA and 0-0.1% converted to DHA.  In pure vegans, the conversions can raise to about 5% -> 3% respectively.  With regard to DHA being a definitive for neuro tissue health (definitely worth a look into for prenatal reasons as well as Alzheimers, etc), I would assume the main reason to ingest Omega3s is to get to this molecule.  That said, there is probably some researched amount of DHA humans require for optimal neuro function, but I am not aware of it, nor do I know if the 3% or less conversion from EPA to DHA is adequate.  

In addition, I would submit that Omega3s in themselves are not necessarily a good idea to increase because of the 6:3 ratio with respect to anti inflammatory, but that lowering the 6s to adjust that ratio is optimal.  Increasing a fatty acid (in adding Omega 3s) inherently raise the oxidation and metabolic burden on the human system. 

I was just curious on your thoughts on this as I discuss this with many of my patients here.  I am a Physical Medicine and Rehab physician with a future sub specialty (if and when functional medicine is actually recognized by the board) in Functional Medicine and always look forward to hearing more pragmatic versions of what I read.  By the way, I would also submit that only Spirulina in your current diet provides DHA as the parent compound which doesnt have to go through the inefficient OMega 3->EPA->DHA pathway.  

Thanks again for your time, 

Alex

 

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