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James Coppola

Paleo, Vegan, Vegetarian and the Conventional Diet...

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Frankincensed

I believe the original poster left out one - rawfoodism.

But even raw food approach understands it's not possible 100% of the time, and I think it's worth considering if you are trying a new approach that you don't have to be 100%. If you get a craving for a treat after abstaining for a month  why not enjoy it every other week or so.  What you resist persists applies to some degree.

Actual health benefits of any approach are questionable outside of other factors including weight, lifestyle and heredity. "Breaking" the pattern occasionally isn't going to nullify anything.

Personally I eat a conventional diet, but have a habit of calorie and protein (to a lesser degree) approximating. I've maintained the same weight for about 5 years. And I eat about 95% meals home-cooked generally with fresh ingredients with lots of flavor - thankfully not by myself!

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Bogdan Banculescu
On 06.10.2016 at 9:17 PM, Suzanna McGee said:

The mistake often people make when they "try vegan" is that they don't get enough calories. Especially on retreats like this… they serve you full plate of food, but because it's a lot of vegetables, the calories are so much lower. After days and weeks of deficit of calories, of course we would feel weak. I would die of hunger on such a retreat (I checked the menus), because I eat about 3,000-3,500 calories. Imagine the volume of food :) which I love, because I like to eat :) I never feel lack of energy, because I get my calories in. 

I believe I was quite strict regarding the total daily calorie intake. :)

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Lucy Wilkins
On 30/09/2016 at 1:29 AM, Jared Birbeck said:

I've not met a healthy vegan or vegetarian...perhaps it is not that they don't exist but I've not met one.

 

Well let me  introduce myself! 34 years vegetarian.

I don't think I have had more than a sniffle in terms of illness in all that time, very active ( horse rider, crossfitter, dog walks etc). I have carried and fed 2 children who are now healthy adults. Most of my work colleagues who take regular sick leave are meat eaters so I guess it's about eating the healthiest version of our preferred diet  rather than expecting a diet to be healthy just because it has a label attached to it.

 

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Suzanna McGee
On October 17, 2016 at 3:04 AM, Bogdan Banculescu said:

I believe I was quite strict regarding the total daily calorie intake. :)

And I do believe you… however, from my experience with dealing with people who are transitioning to a plant-based diet (I published a book about it, so I do get tons and tons of emails from people), it seems to be the biggest problem. People don't eat enough, because the volume of whole foods is quite big. I am now not talking about processed (vegan) foods… for example, I ate 1.5 pounds (3/4 kilos) of potatoes and 1.5 lbs onions for dinner yesterday. That's A LOT OF VOLUME of food and people were laughing what a pig I am. However, it was only 750 calories. Which really is not that much. Some people would have that volume in 4 servings and thus not getting enough. Now imagine some even less calorie dense foods (cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage, etc…)  

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Jeff Serven

Suzanna!

Im gonna have to call you out on this one. 1.5 pounds of potatoes and 1.5 pounds of onions for dinner? Hmmm....I would like to see a video of this. 

Further to the rationale of your program; An average size man would have to eat 12 pounds of food a day? 

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Jeff Serven

Lucy, Sounds like you got it figured out. Keep on, keeping' on! 

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Suzanna McGee
6 hours ago, Jeff Serven said:

Suzanna!

Im gonna have to call you out on this one. 1.5 pounds of potatoes and 1.5 pounds of onions for dinner? Hmmm....I would like to see a video of this. 

Further to the rationale of your program; An average size man would have to eat 12 pounds of food a day? 

I eat probably more than an "average man". I burn about 3,500 or more calories a day. I do not have a particular rationale, and I don't see my diet as a program either. I eat whole foods plant-based diet. Nothing processed... I love fruits. To get my calories in, I eat the volume needed. It's fine with me, because I love to eat :) For breakfast,  I have 2–3 lbs of pears, or grapes, or whatever fruits. Last night I had a few pounds of cauliflower, two pounds of tomatoes, etc. I love that kind of food, simple or no preparation, and I just get my calories in to support my training. Often I eat dried persimmons for example, and obviously, these are more calorie dense, so I don't eat such volumes, but when I eat fresh fruits, it gets heavy. 

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Jeff Serven

Oh it just keeps getting better! 6 pound meals now? You should enter a hot dog eating contest. 

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Suzanna McGee

Hm, maybe more 2–3 pounds meals on average :)  BTW, that dinner:  3 pounds of cauliflower is only 325 calories, and 2 pounds tomatoes to it was 160… so it was under 500 calorie meal… again, not that much overeating, really…  Today for my morning meals I had 1.5 lbs of grapes, 1.5 lbs of pears, some persimmons and some almonds. Very ready for my GST now :)  A thought of a hotdog makes me puke without even smelling it or tasting it, lol, so processed, so unhealthy, so empty of nutrients. 

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Stuart Stegall

I follow the Renaissance Periodization Diet, so animal products are "generally" required, but it can be done without too much effort as vegan.

My workout day breakdown is rought 42% protein, 40% carbs, 18% fat.  (3 days of GB workouts, 2 days of deadlift/squat workouts, 1 day of rest, 1 day of endurance)

Non workout days are usually less carby and slightly more fats.

I have eaten a traditional vegetarian diet, a typical keto diet, a vegetarian/vegan keto diet, and a vegan diet along with a traditional Southern American diet.  As long as I keep my calories at the proper level, I feel very much the same on all of the diets.  Some of the diets I felt pretty bad if I ate too much, and specifically when I have eaten under maintenance by a lot on a mostly plant based diet, I have had really poor energy (which is fully expected at 20-30% below maint) and rather heavy LBM loss (not expected but problem an effect that protein absorption from most plate based proteins is poor and I was probably well under the known levels to stop the rapid LBM loss especially while not sedentary.)

I'm relatively confident that on any diet that meets the general RDAs on a weekly basis and isn't too far away from your maintenance needs is going to be fine, though some people on plant-based diets likely don't eat enough protein, but that's not the fault of the diet.

 

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Jared Birbeck
On 25/10/2016 at 6:01 AM, Jeff Serven said:

Suzanna!

Im gonna have to call you out on this one. 1.5 pounds of potatoes and 1.5 pounds of onions for dinner? Hmmm....I would like to see a video of this. 

Further to the rationale of your program; An average size man would have to eat 12 pounds of food a day? 

sounds good to me. fry those onions, roast those potatoes with some garlic and rosemary and you better give me a full kilo of potatoes :D a kg of potatoes really isn't that much. take meat out of the equation and yep this sounds like a good meal.

 

19 hours ago, Suzanna McGee said:

I eat probably more than an "average man". I burn about 3,500 or more calories a day. I do not have a particular rationale, and I don't see my diet as a program either. I eat whole foods plant-based diet. Nothing processed... I love fruits. To get my calories in, I eat the volume needed. It's fine with me, because I love to eat :) For breakfast,  I have 2–3 lbs of pears, or grapes, or whatever fruits. Last night I had a few pounds of cauliflower, two pounds of tomatoes, etc. I love that kind of food, simple or no preparation, and I just get my calories in to support my training. Often I eat dried persimmons for example, and obviously, these are more calorie dense, so I don't eat such volumes, but when I eat fresh fruits, it gets heavy. 

can't do this. 3 pounds of cauli is kind of boring. the tomatoes sound good if they are fresh and decent. a bit of olive oil, balsamic vinegar and some basil and it sounds like a great salad. A kilo of it? I'm not sure but a kilo of tomatoes really isn't much. not sure I could do both in the same meal though, mix them together into a casserole of sorts again with some onion and garlic and maybe. pretty sure I'd want some decent starches though otherwise despite feeling full I'd be back for 'something more'. Personally, I would want to drop the volume of the veg slightly to get more oil in. A white sauce on the Cauli would go down a treat but not so good if you are vegan. can you do an alternative milk white sauce?? or just turn it into a curry with some coconut milk. some cauli in the sauce, some into a food processor to pretend like you are having some rice...sold.

same deal with 1.5lbs of grapes and 1.5lbs of pears. volume wise, possible but I'd rather slightly less volume and then some homemade yoghurt. pretty sure my 5yo would knock off a kilo of grapes...and ask for more.

its making me hungry...time for breakfast. Would I be willing to try this for a week? I reckon I would with the tweaks above. would I stick to it? not sure, I'd definitely need to find a decent source of protein. Eggs, Dairy and fish feature prominently, I can start to feel absolutely rubbish very quickly without it.

 

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Ronnicky Roy

 

I'm making it, with Bison meat. But c'mon. Let's do better than pounds of single vegetables lol.
#VeganFriendly

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Jeff Serven

Suzanne and Jared you two are so full of it!

I asked you to video 1 meal where you eat 3-5 pounds of veggies(you said it, not me). I want to see a) if you can even do it b) how long it takes you to eat it. 

To the rest of you; think of the physiology! Do you think your digestive system can handle this? Keep in mind you probably eat 3-4.5 pounds of food in a day, now think about all that food at once then doing it another 3 times? Do you think it may be overworking the digestive tract? 

Thanks for the video Ronnicky

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Kirsten Stewart

Are you all talking about sticking your food on a scale and actually weighing it? Like at a salad bar?

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Jeff Serven

Ronnicky, I have been checking that guy out on you tube. Funny videos with some good looking food. Thanks for the share. 

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Ronnicky Roy
3 hours ago, Jeff Serven said:

Ronnicky, I have been checking that guy out on you tube. Funny videos with some good looking food. Thanks for the share. 

No problem. Just discovered the channel a few weeks ago. I've been all over it. So much knowledge and good food ideas.

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Suzanna McGee
3 hours ago, Kirsten Stewart said:

Are you all talking about sticking your food on a scale and actually weighing it? Like at a salad bar?

Yes. I've been doing this for last 20 years. Not just measuring it, but also logging it. I used to be a natural (drug-free) bodybuilder and I used to do my diet on my own (aka I didn't have any nutritional coach). The only way to know what your body is doing and to what it is responding and how, is by knowing what I am putting in. Different nutritional approaches created different visual results. It's been an amazing experience. I am doing it to this day, just because I am quite analytical, quite curious, and like to know things, especially because I also guide people who to transition to a plant-based lifestyle. 

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Suzanna McGee
3 hours ago, Jeff Serven said:

Suzanne and Jared you two are so full of it!

I asked you to video 1 meal where you eat 3-5 pounds of veggies(you said it, not me). I want to see a) if you can even do it b) how long it takes you to eat it. 

To the rest of you; think of the physiology! Do you think your digestive system can handle this? Keep in mind you probably eat 3-4.5 pounds of food in a day, now think about all that food at once then doing it another 3 times? Do you think it may be overworking the digestive tract? 

Thanks for the video Ronnicky

Not really full of it… unless it's vegetables and fruits, then yes, I am full of it :) 

I really don't need to prove you anything, because this is my lifestyle and I am not convincing you to live this way. But just for entertainment, I will make a video. I am going to make my potatoes and onions tomorrow…  

It takes about 30–40 minutes for me too eat my meals. I eat slo, whether  I eat my veggies, or fruits, or even a plain smoothie. I always eat slow and chew my food. 

Regarding the digestive system. The food is really light and digests fast, so there is no issue. As soon as I add more fat, it all slows down. That's why I don't… I can even go and train quite soon after my meals. I know my digestive system is fine because 1) I am not bloated after my meal 2) I have no gas 3) If there would be some, it doesn't stink (and let me tell you, my fellow egg and meat eating weight lifters in the gym create some disgusting air sometimes!)  4) I have a great quality stool (yea, I know, too much information  :-) ) 5) I do not have energy swings (crash after a meal, then lack of energy later) 6) no cravings (I seem to be getting all the nutrients I need). 

Besides all that, I know it's working for me, because I am 51 years, I am muscular and lean, looking in my 30s (or so people say, I feel like 28 :) ), I train 7 days a week and recover well… Plus I like to eat, so here I have a lots of healthy food to choose from. 

I'll make the video tomorrow. 

PS

My Facebook is flooded with my pictures of the food I eat, so it is nothing I would just make up to keep people entertained… btw, the 30 lbs of persimmons last me for a few days. That's my obsession…  of course, besides GST, ha ha

IG persimmons.PNG

IG salad.PNG

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Jared Birbeck
5 hours ago, Jeff Serven said:

Suzanne and Jared you two are so full of it!

I asked you to video 1 meal where you eat 3-5 pounds of veggies(you said it, not me). I want to see a) if you can even do it b) how long it takes you to eat it. 

To the rest of you; think of the physiology! Do you think your digestive system can handle this? Keep in mind you probably eat 3-4.5 pounds of food in a day, now think about all that food at once then doing it another 3 times? Do you think it may be overworking the digestive tract? 

Thanks for the video Ronnicky

you're probably right...I am full of it. I don't think I would do it for a week. but would def have a go for a few meals.

And despite my reservations I think I could do 3lb of cauli  and 3lb of tomatoes if it was done right as it really is only a small head of Cauli and 10 tomatoes or so. but I stand by my comment that 1.5lb of pears and 1.5lb of grapes is too much for me, that stuff sits heavy and makes me feel a little off.

Suzanna, love the look of that salad.

better get onto it...not here to f&^* spiders

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Stuart Stegall

People who regularly eat very large volumes can totally eat POUNDS of food.  It seems crazy but it's WAY possible.  Though eating three pounds of nightshade veggies in a single sitting is probably asking for trouble.

I just don't want to be the plumber for that house ...

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James Coppola

Nutrition is subjective, if it works for you then keep doing it if not make changes. It's quite simple actually but human beings have a tendency to overcomplicate things.

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Ryan Bailey

Ok. I will give it a go; raw-vegan 6 pound meals for a day.

After reading through this thread I ran out to my garden and grabbed the material to compose this meal #1 of 4 for the day.  I have a 2-a-day workout shedule coming up so I'll need the calories. Here is what it looks like:

rawvegan.jpg

Barely fits on my chopping block. 6 pounds of fresh swiss chard, kale, yellow tomatoes, purple cabbage, purple potato, sweet potato and acorn winter squash... 800 calories. 

I will need to eat this same meal 3 additional times for 3,200 calories.

I'll report back after 24 hours.

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Suzanna McGee

@Ryan Bailey wowie, very cool! Beautiful colors. I always throw in some fruits in my veggie salads too. I want to have all 5 flavors in it (salt, bitter, sour, sweet, and umami) plus you will get more calories (if you need them for your training). 

 

On October 25, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Jared Birbeck said:

can't do this. 3 pounds of cauli is kind of boring. the tomatoes sound good if they are fresh and decent. a bit of olive oil, balsamic vinegar and some basil and it sounds like a great salad. A kilo of it? I'm not sure but a kilo of tomatoes really isn't much. not sure I could do both in the same meal though, mix them together into a casserole of sorts again with some onion and garlic and maybe. pretty sure I'd want some decent starches though otherwise despite feeling full I'd be back for 'something more'. Personally, I would want to drop the volume of the veg slightly to get more oil in. A white sauce on the Cauli would go down a treat but not so good if you are vegan. can you do an alternative milk white sauce?? or just turn it into a curry with some coconut milk. some cauli in the sauce, some into a food processor to pretend like you are having some rice...sold.

It's all fine with your sauces. People are used to eating sauces and dressings.  I used to as well. Over time, I became more and more simple. I've learned to love the flavors of the plants without needing heavy sauces to give them a flavor. I just like them in the most plain state now. Maybe little salt, pepper and cumin, and I am fine. Which makes my cooking time super short too. I love that as well. I don't use oils (too processed, very low nutrient density per calorie). If I want more fat, I use avocados, walnuts, coconut, flax seeds, etc… Just throw it in the food, instead of "wasting" time on making a dressing. I am kind of lazy in that sense. I can spend all the time in the gym training or stretching, but in the kitchen I want to be efficient :)

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Ronnicky Roy

My god Ryan lol.

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James Coppola
3 hours ago, Ryan Bailey said:

Ok. I will give it a go; raw-vegan 6 pound meals for a day.

After reading through this thread I ran out to my garden and grabbed the material to compose this meal #1 of 4 for the day.  I have a 2-a-day workout shedule coming up so I'll need the calories. Here is what it looks like:

rawvegan.jpg

Barely fits on my chopping block. 6 pounds of fresh swiss chard, kale, yellow tomatoes, purple cabbage, purple potato, sweet potato and acorn winter squash... 800 calories. 

I will need to eat this same meal 3 additional times for 3,200 calories.

I'll report back after 24 hours.

Nice garden you have there, can I have some of your fresh produce?

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