Jefferson Curls?

In both of Coach Sommer's interviews with Tim Ferriss, he spoke very highly of Jefferson curls, yet they aren't given as exercises in Fundamentals or Foundation One (I'm still early in the progressions).

Any thoughts on working these into the routine?

Thanks.

If you are following Manna progressions you will get there.

They are an F1 early manna im

I posted a similar question on J-curls in a different part of the forum regarding integrating Stretch, HS and F1 work. I have also noted how in Coach Sommer's podcasts he mentions the value of progressively integrating weighted mobility exercises - two of the most valuable being Shoulder Dislocates and J-curls. 

Even though we do get J-curls as an iM for our Manna work, I wonder how "heavy" we are supposed to go before moving on? It seems advisable to keep doing the J-curls and increasing the weight over time - Coach Sommer mentions one guy taking a year to J-curl his own body weight I believe. How do we continue to integrate J-curl loads on a weekly basis (even beyond the MN PEs) - assuming this is a desirable goal for people doing F1 and HS1? perhaps I should just not be concerned with it beyond what is already in MN programming?

I am currently using the GB Pro+ which has some follow along videos that can take me through a J-curl series; however, they don't include a mastery template of progressions. It is challenging to come up with the right loads that can harmonize with F1 and HS1 workout loads (and it is also hard for me to tell what made me more sore  . . . the F1 workout or trying some weighted mobility as a part of a warm up or cool down!).

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences; its great to get some community feedback.

On 8/23/2016 at 7:09 AM, Carlo Romero said:

I posted a similar question on J-curls in a different part of the forum regarding integrating Stretch, HS and F1 work. I have also noted how in Coach Sommer's podcasts he mentions the value of progressively integrating weighted mobility exercises - two of the most valuable being Shoulder Dislocates and J-curls. 

Even though we do get J-curls as an iM for our Manna work, I wonder how "heavy" we are supposed to go before moving on? It seems advisable to keep doing the J-curls and increasing the weight over time - Coach Sommer mentions one guy taking a year to J-curl his own body weight I believe. How do we continue to integrate J-curl loads on a weekly basis (even beyond the MN PEs) - assuming this is a desirable goal for people doing F1 and HS1? perhaps I should just not be concerned with it beyond what is already in MN programming?

I am currently using the GB Pro+ which has some follow along videos  that can take me through a J-curl series; however, they don't include a mastery template of progressions. It is challenging to come up with the right loads that can harmonize with F1 and HS1 workout loads (and it is also hard for me to tell what made me more sore  . . . the F1 workout or trying some weighted mobility as a part of a warm up or cool down!).

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences; its great to get some community feedback.

I don't know if it was designed with this in mind, but my bet is most people will spend a LONG time at MN PE2 (straddle ups - I know I will be there for a while), where the iM is Jefferson Curls.

As far as how to progress, I'd be interested in hearing the answer, too.

Thanks for the replies!  Carlo, thanks for expanding.

Also curious about others' thoughts on J-curls once you move on from it being the iM piece in the Manna series.

Long term goal would be to Jefferson curl while holding a barbell equivalent to your body weight. This would likely be a multi-year journey. After you move past the progression in Foundation you could include them in your warm ups once or twice a week. 

Standard answer I tend to read about on here is to do anything fun or extra after your Foundation workout. So I'd say on days you're doing Mana in your Foundation workout, finish with some sets of J curls. 

Whenever you want to add weight, go back several steps in the mastery template and progress through until you can perform mastery at the new weight. Then go back and do it again until you reach your goal weight. 

I train JCs at 2x5 after MS or FS once a week when I'm already well "stretched out". How heavy should one go? For me a good weight is the highest one that allows me to relax to the stretch at the bottom. This has been the limiting factor for me - the curl itself feels the same at 20% or 50% BW but longer sets with a high weight start to challenge my grip strength. This exercise definitely comes with multiple benefits.

25 minutes ago, Petri Widsten said:

I train JCs at 2x5 after MS or FS once a week when I'm already well "stretched out". How heavy should one go? For me a good weight is the highest one that allows me to relax to the stretch at the bottom. This has been the limiting factor for me - the curl itself feels the same at 20% or 50% BW but longer sets with a high weight start to challenge my grip strength. This exercise definitely comes with multiple benefits.

Someone else should jump in if I'm wrong, but I think you should do those jcurls after a workout not a stretch session. 

Coach says during one of the stretch videos you shouldn't work out after the stretch session --- that the stretch session should be the last thing you do.

My understanding is that after static stretching the muscles are very relaxed, and doing a workout in that state can cause you to enter ranges of motion you're not prepared to handle (or at least that your brain may think you're not prepared to handle), causing injury.

I do Jefferson Curls as a warmup before MN progression.  Usually 1 set of 10.  I keep the same weight for quite a long time (6 weeks or so) and then increase a bit when it feels really easy and I get the desired ROM (wrist below toes).  I am now up to 45kg.  Grip has just progressed along (with all the grip work in RC/MN/SL).

I too have seen great progress with j curls performed towards the end of my warm up.  I find that they not only work wonderfully prior to manna work but also hollow body work as well, especially if you suffer from upper back tightness.

In a 6 month period with the foundation courses I have increased my weight from 30lbs to 85lbs, which is half my bodyweight. Like @Koenraad Van Leemput once I can perform a single at of 10 I increase the weight and begin with 2 x 5.

Thank you all for these helpful replies; great hearing how you have managed to keep that conditioning up (and I am sure it is helpful for MN PE6)

Any suggestions on how incremental you increase the weight @Mikey Cunanan? Doing a little math, in your case it seems you increased about 9 pounds a month . . . 9 pounds all together once you hit 10 reps or incremental like 3 pounds a week (assuming on deload week you are not adding weight)?

@Petri Widsten and @Julia Quigley - interesting points you both raise on the nature of J-curls as "weighted mobility" and how weighted mobility fits in with passive stretching. I don't have yet the Stretch course, but if I take my cues from some of the GB Pro+ workout videos with the coaches fromGB, they alternate J-curls with passive stretching in one video. But perhaps one of the coaches has insight for us on this topic.

Great info, everyone. Thanks again.

Here's a previous thread on this:

6 hours ago, Carlo Romero said:

 

Any suggestions on how incremental you increase the weight @Mikey Cunanan? Doing a little math, in your case it seems you increased about 9 pounds a month . . . 9 pounds all together once you hit 10 reps or incremental like 3 pounds a week (assuming on deload week you are not adding weight)?

 

@Carlo Romero personally I added anywhere from 5-10 increase  if I was able to perform 1 x 10r easily with previous weight. Coincidentally the only time I was bold enough to add weight was following a de-load week. Generally did this towards the end of my warm up. Hope this helps.

I do jcurls religiously 3x a week as of the beginning of this year. Best decision I've made in a while.

When doing j curls are we supposed to squeeze our quads (hard knees) at the bottom of the movement?

14 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

When doing j curls are we supposed to squeeze our quads (hard knees) at the bottom of the movement?

I don't think I do this, but they should stay locked out, so if they are tempted to subtly bend then a squeeze will solve it

Thanks Jon. This will make them more bearable!!

As far as progressing the weight, I listened to coach talk about 12 to 18 months timeframes and gently increasing the weight, with bodyweight a goal. As I've had a few lower back issues, (my lower back is dead flat through a J curl. It just won't bend!) I set a goal of half body weight in one year. Starting with an empty bar that meant 40kg in one year, so I add 3kg per month. So far up to 13.5kg (29 pounds for those still in the 19th century) and its going well. If I couldn't do 10 I wouldn't increase.

@Jon Douglas any chance you can share more on what the J curls x3 a week looks like for you? For you, do you make it practically its own PE / iM with your other Foundational GST training or something to include in warm ups or cool downs three days a week?

Seeing your post has me interested in working it for each of my F1 Days (I am on 3 day a week with HS in between). I have been keeping the weight light for now given this increase in frequency and reps. Thanks for your time.

A Foundations session for me always starts the same.

Walk into gym; immediately deadlifts @ bw as per Coach's outline in the relevant F3 thread. These are a new tweak from last week as I have found a lot of extra energy lately and I feel like they really wake my nervous system up.

Full body limber, head to wrist to toe. Focus is mostly on shoulder pec and thoracic mobility as these are my weaker points; upper body goes through some bridge holds before I go onto legs and hips with some pancake variants

Find the gym's box and do 1 x 10 Jefferson curls. Happy to go by how strong I feel that day, usually either 60 or 80 kg (80 being my bodyweight). It pretty much just comes down to my grip as to whether there are any problems completing the reps. In my current setup i have to deadlift and then step up onto the box, which I find difficult and a bit intimidating over 80kg, so that's my working limit just now

 1 x about 20 lat flies, as per F4 mobility

Into FL or Mn previously mastered element for warmup.

Sometimes I'll work extra slow reps, especially if my traps / tspine are tight. At 80kg this can get draining on grip fast so sometimes I need to do it over a few sets. Nothing to worry about in it sometimes being slightly easier or harder as long as it gets done. Sometimes I prefer lighter (circa 50kg, a 15 on each side of the bar ) for very slow reps, especially if I've been sitting or driving a lot that day.

I don't use anything lower than 50kg; don't get much from it anymore. Have spent probably the most time using 70kg @ 80-85kg in weight and found that a very pleasant balance of being able to relax into the stretch and still build strength; you have to be @Luke Searra  strong to do 2x bw and be able to relax into it still. This weight at my strength level 6mths ago probably made the fastest improvement in my pike flexibility I have had for a while.

On 8/26/2016 at 4:26 AM, Jon Douglas said:

I do jcurls religiously 3x a week as of the beginning of this year. Best decision I've made in a while.

Jon,

Could you expound on this a little bit, i.e., what those of us who aren't doing it 3x/week could be missing? 

Jon, thank you for sharing your training schedule. What a glimpse into the future of training I hope to be doing (and most of all persevering in) the future! 

Very interesting to hear how you change up the weight depending on whether you want to slow down further for a deeper stretch. And it sounds like when you go has heavy as you can, you are breaking up the 10 reps across multiple sets if you need to given grip strength limits.

I don't want to get ahead of myself with F3 concepts when I am still a beginner at F1, but I must admit that I could use a nervous system "wake up" like you mentioned. Would you discourage deadlifts with a light weight/reasonable kettlebell for a warm up for someone at F1 level? Following Coach's advice, I have set aside all weighted training for this GST program.