Hello from Mississippi!

Hello! My name is Patrick Smith, I'm a young man, and I live in Southern Mississippi. I'm glad to be here, and I look forward very much to learning even more from you then I have already (lurking...).

First and foremost, I'd like to thank the Admin for approving my registration. That was very quick.

More about me (not that you necessarily want to know 8)) and a few questions about the application of gymnastics training:

I've been learning Tang Soo Do since I was 12, and at about that time, I started to want to strength train. I did push ups, sit ups, pull ups and chin ups at random parts of the day, and in not real format. After a year and a half, I started using dumbbells for bicep curls, reverse delt flyes, and general body building techniques. After less then half a year of doing that, I was advised by fellow martial artists online that body building would not help my martial arts abilities, and could even harm them by slowing me down, reducing coordination, and things like that. In light of that news, I stopped immediately. After that point, I admit that I almost completely abandoned strength training besides doing a very light workout of less then 50 push ups, sit ups, and dips, twice a week. I mostly concentrated on practicing my martial arts techniques.

That was until early summer of this year, when I was advised to start power lifting with a program designed by Joe Defranco (defrancostraining.com) for "skinny bastards". It looked pretty reasonable to me, so up till now, I've been power lifting. I believed that body weight exercises weren't as efficient as using free weights like barbells and dumbbells. It seems to me now that as a martial artist (and a future gymnast), that gymnastic training would be much more efficient then power lifting. After all, I train in martial arts and just in training in general to become a better martial artist.

I discussed this with martial arts friends of mine, and a few of them agree that martial artists should mix free weight lifting (barbells, dumbbells, etc.) with body weight exercises to get a good result. I want to be a martial artist/stunt man, and right now, gymnastics training seems to be a great way of getting the results I want. I'd like to know what you gymnasts and gymnastics instructors think about this. ?

Post Updated

I've spent the last hour or so searching and reading throughout this forum for references to mixing martial arts and gymnastics training, and I've read that it's hard to do. I don't understand this at all, but I'm going to keep searching.

Thanks for your time,

Patrick Smith

I discussed this with martial arts friends of mine, and a few of them agree that martial artists should mix free weight lifting (barbells, dumbbells, etc.) with body weight exercises to get a good result.

Worked for Bruce Lee.

Mostly BW, throw in some DL or OL and sprinting. I don't see the need for BB squats if you're in TSD unless you like them of course. I probably wouldn't bother with too much lifting with gymnasts, but you're not a gymnast. I think some of lifted variety and volume could be helpful with gymnasts.

Blairbob said:

I discussed this with martial arts friends of mine, and a few of them agree that martial artists should mix free weight lifting (barbells, dumbbells, etc.) with body weight exercises to get a good result.

Worked for Bruce Lee.

Mostly BW, throw in some DL or OL and sprinting. I don't see the need for BB squats if you're in TSD unless you like them of course. I probably wouldn't bother with too much lifting with gymnasts, but you're not a gymnast. I think some of lifted variety and volume could be helpful with gymnasts.

Bruce Lee was a gifted athlete and a dedicated martial artists to be sure, but he wasn't necessarily an expert on strength training for the martial arts + stunt work/gymnastics. In a way, I prefer to look at Jackie Chan as my role model because he's obviously very skilled in both martial arts AND gymnastic type stunts. It's true that I'm not a gymnast (yet), and I won't ever compete or anything like that, but I feel I could benefit a lot from having gymnastics abilities and I really want to learn.

In clarification, please understand that I already put in hours daily training as a martial artist. I have the will power and self discipline to go through with learning gymnastic skills, and I will read and do my best to understand and put into practice everything that you teach me. I'm not somebody who is dropping out of the blue to ask how to learn gymnastics in a year. I know that my martial arts training and hopefully my future gymnastics training will be and are a life's journey. I look forward to it!

I say this because as a martial artists who accesses martial arts forums, people sometimes show up with the ambitions to become the next Jackie Chan, Jet Li, or Chuck Norris, but they lack the will power and self discipline to work for it. I get the feeling that since both gymnastics and martial arts have an impressive outward display, people would sometimes do the same here.

Anyway, enough of that, let's continue.

I'll have to look up what DL and OL mean before I can respond to that! Haha!

I was reading a review of Coach Sommer's book "Building an Olympic Body" and in it, the author (of the review) stated that they found it confusing at some parts because it referred to informational products that had not yet released. Do you think it would be prudent to hold off from purchasing the book for now, and just keep reading here on the forum? There's so much information here, it's mind boggling, but the book could be a more concise way of learning the basics... I don't know. :?

Thank you so much for your reply, Blairbob! 8)

Patrick Smith said:

I'll have to look up what DL and OL mean before I can respond to that! Haha!

I was reading a review of Coach Sommer's book "Building an Olympic Body" and in it, the author (of the review) stated that they found it confusing at some parts because it referred to informational products that had not yet released. Do you think it would be prudent to hold off from purchasing the book for now, and just keep reading here on the forum? There's so much information here, it's mind boggling, but the book could be a more concise way of learning the basics... I don't know. :?

I am going to say Blairbob means "Dead Lift" and "Olympic Lifts." Get the book its great and explains how to do tons of movements, the companion DVDs have also been really helpful. The only things Coach mentions is the handstand book (Handstand Chronicles I believe its called) and the joint prehab book, Liquid Steel™, in the intro. Saying something like both of these topics need their own book, so be on the lookout. For a beginner to intermediate athlete you can find all you need for jointprep and handstands on this site and Ido Portals blog/forum.

niftyvt said:

Patrick Smith said:

I'll have to look up what DL and OL mean before I can respond to that! Haha!

I was reading a review of Coach Sommer's book "Building an Olympic Body" and in it, the author (of the review) stated that they found it confusing at some parts because it referred to informational products that had not yet released. Do you think it would be prudent to hold off from purchasing the book for now, and just keep reading here on the forum? There's so much information here, it's mind boggling, but the book could be a more concise way of learning the basics... I don't know. :?

I am going to say Blairbob means "Dead Lift" and "Olympic Lifts." Get the book its great and explains how to do tons of movements, the companion DVDs have also been really helpful. The only things Coach mentions is the handstand book (Handstand Chronicles I believe its called) and the joint prehab book, Liquid Steel™, in the intro. Saying something like both of these topics need their own book, so be on the lookout. For a beginner to intermediate athlete you can find all you need for jointprep and handstands on this site and Ido Portals blog/forum.

Hey, Niftyvt!

I'm really happy to hear that dead lifts are recommended. I've been doing them in my power lifting for the last few months. If I've read a lot of the info on this forum correctly, it would be best if I do them 1x5 twice a week. Right?

As for "Olympic Lifts," do you mean something like this?

Thanks for the reply and the info about BGB. That decides it, I'm getting the book ASAP!

Patrick

The OL lifts would be like, snatches, cleans etc, so thats a yes on your video. Make sure you have someone teach you proper technique and then practice it with light weight with someone experienced watching you so they can poke and prod you into perfect form (sadly this is where I would have to start again because I havnt done a OL lift in over a year, my local gym doesnt allow them! ). Then start adding weight, overhead squats, dead lifts (with a shrug at the top if you want to), and front squats are all great auxiliary movements to help you build up the OL lifts. Basically they are just different pieces of the various OL lifts so you can work each part and then combine them. You can program your dead lifting like any other weight lifting program, just search around (not just this site) and pick a rep-set scheme that appeals to you.

I am not that experienced with lifting but I try to learn everything about everything when it comes to fitness, and I am about to start lifting for a few months because my school gymnastics gym will be closed for winter break, so I have been brushing up on what I should do. Maybe Slizzardman or another more experienced lifter will chime in if I miss speak.

Shrugging at the top or arching to overextend the hips in DL is dumb. It's epic dumb like shooting yourself.

The Olympic lifts are the Clean&Jerk and the Snatch.

I don't do 1x5 of DL but typically 3 sets of reps between 4-12. The weight is fixed and it weighs between 275-375lbs. I'm thinking it low 300's. These are done in mixed because that's the only way I can grip when I'm lifting with 5m rest periods. It's just my maintenance scheme of DL but it doesn't trash me. Seeing as I have repped the weight as much as 12x, it's not a 5rm weight. It kind of varies depending how tired I am seeing as I typically do them after upper body gymnastics strength or with squats and pressing.

Blairbob said:

Shrugging at the top or arching to overextend the hips in DL is dumb. It's epic dumb like shooting yourself.

The Olympic lifts are the Clean&Jerk and the Snatch.

I don't do 1x5 of DL but typically 3 sets of reps between 4-12. The weight is fixed and it weighs between 275-375lbs. I'm thinking it low 300's. These are done in mixed because that's the only way I can grip when I'm lifting with 5m rest periods. It's just my maintenance scheme of DL but it doesn't trash me. Seeing as I have repped the weight as much as 12x, it's not a 5rm weight. It kind of varies depending how tired I am seeing as I typically do them after upper body gymnastics strength or with squats and pressing.

According to RandomHavoc (viewtopic.php?p=21588#p21588):

"1-5 reps per set : maximal strength gains.

6-8 reps per set: middle ground between strength and hypertrophy.

9-12 reps per set: hypertrophy.

13+ reps per set: muscular endurance."

In light of this, is there any reason why I should not do DL purely in the strength developing region like the 1-5 rep range? I'd like to avoid lower body muscle mass (that is, as much as convenient) and according to RandomHavoc, the higher end of 4-12 reps would put me in the hypertrophy range (which I assume is more mas... right?). Perhaps 3 sets of 1-8 would be more advisable for me if it would concentrate more closely on strength benefits. I love to kick, so I'd like to keep my legs as dense as possible to avoid having to move around unnecessary mass!

Speaking of that, what kind of DL warm up sets/reps do you do?

Thanks