Gymnastics for MMA/Boxing

Hallo

I want to change my former strength training into gymnastic training for to increase more strength and power and core stability in MMA/Boxing.

Is it usefull to do Gymnastic Strength Training™ as strength training for martial arts?

I have heart that you can increase great functional strength with gymnastic training.

If yes on which exercises should I concentrate? Are there exercises which are more important for my goals?

Thank you for help

Boxsquat

Functional strength can be improved on both weights and gymnastics. Functional strength training is merely training that benefits performance in your chosen sport. So, training that is functional for one sport may not be functional for another.

Compared to weight training, gymnastics improves balance, coordination, body awareness. Strength wise, you will get almost as strong or even stronger on the weights than someone who does weight training, but they will have none of the strength that you do.

Unfortunately, you are (I assume) too old to improve your general coordination. Also, balance is specific to your sport. Sport specific drills are the only things that will help you here. One important difference between gymnastics and weight training however, is the practice of being inverted. It's important in MMA not to become disoriented while inverted (e.g. you get thrown).

There are a few gymnastics movements that I think actually mimic grappling conditions better than traditional weight training. For example, in weight training rows are done with a very retracted scapula, but I don't think this really occurs in grappling. It seems to me that the motion of pulling in grappling looks closer to front lever rows.

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Also, something that is not addressed in traditional weight training is strength at odd/non-traditional angles, multiple angles, and combination of pushing and pulling in one motion. All of this may occur in the course of a fight and you will really only find exercises that train it in gymnastics.

Although they weren't MMA'ers some of the best martial artists used gymnastics as supplementle body conditioning including Jet Li, Jackie Chan and Mark Dacascos. I havent presonally sparred with any of these fighters but I bets it's safe to say the strength and agility they attain from this gymnastics gives them a massive edge. Although I know they're not quite the same Bruce Lee used a lot of isometric work with weights and a few bodyweight moves like the L-fly to attain his shredded build in his later movies.

I find gymnastics training to be much more beneficial in my kick boxing than weights. As triangle choke has said it covers far more than just maximal strength and in most cases a gymnast have better understanding and control of their bodies than a weightlifter for sure. As for specific exercises you could be waiting for years before someone writes you a routine, look for yourself-there's an entire website at your fingertips.

Hi everyone, greetings from Serbia

Maybe the best example for implementing gymnastic training in martial arts is Mark (Marek) Drozdzowski (Poland). This man was a Europian kyokushin karate champion, and also he has gymnastics background. Just look at this incredible strenght, flexibility and kicking techniques. Enjoy !

Lekman said:

Maybe the best example for implementing gymnastic training in martial arts is Mark (Marek) Drozdzowski (Poland). This man was a Europian kyokushin karate champion, and also he has gymnastics background. Just look at this incredible strenght, flexibility and kicking techniques. Enjoy !

Nothing against this guy and Serbia, of course, but that video is like 200 years old. I bet today Serbia has some current incredible athletes worth showcasing.

Lekman said:

Hi everyone, greetings from Serbia

Maybe the best example for implementing gymnastic training in martial arts is Mark (Marek) Drozdzowski (Poland). This man was a Europian kyokushin karate champion, and also he has gymnastics background. Just look at this incredible strenght, flexibility and kicking techniques. Enjoy !

His kicking techniques are just amazing... :shock:

trianglechoke7 said:

Unfortunately, you are (I assume) too old to improve your general coordination. Also, balance is specific to your sport. Sport specific drills are the only things that will help you here. One important difference between gymnastics and weight training however, is the practice of being inverted. It's important in MMA not to become disoriented while inverted (e.g. you get thrown).

Hi, Triangle, this is something that I've been repeatedly confused about in reading on this forum. People seem to act as if you have to start when you're 4-8 years old to amount to much in your gymnastic's training. Is this true or just a rumor? I'm a little over 16 years old and I've been a martial artist since I was 12, please tell me, am I too old to become adept at gymnastics?

Thanks

Patrick Smith said:

People seem to act as if you have to start when you're 4-8 years old to amount to much in your gymnastic's training. Is this true or just a rumor?

I dont get this at all and I have been on this forum for a good long while. The thing I believe people are trying to convey is that you have a huge advantage if you 1)start at a young age and 2)are small in stature

You can always improve your flexibility and coordination it just takes time, consistency and dedication.

niftyvt said:

Patrick Smith said:

People seem to act as if you have to start when you're 4-8 years old to amount to much in your gymnastic's training. Is this true or just a rumor?

I dont get this at all and I have been on this forum for a good long while. The thing I believe people are trying to convey is that you have a huge advantage if you 1)start at a young age and 2)are small in stature

You can always improve your flexibility and coordination it just takes time, consistency and dedication.

Thanks! I'm very glad to hear you say that. I'm just below 5'10" tall or so, and I haven't grown any taller in the last year. I hope I don't!

Patrick Smith said:

Lekman said:

Hi everyone, greetings from Serbia

Maybe the best example for implementing gymnastic training in martial arts is Mark (Marek) Drozdzowski (Poland). This man was a Europian kyokushin karate champion, and also he has gymnastics background. Just look at this incredible strenght, flexibility and kicking techniques. Enjoy !

His kicking techniques are just amazing... :shock:

trianglechoke7 said:

Unfortunately, you are (I assume) too old to improve your general coordination. Also, balance is specific to your sport. Sport specific drills are the only things that will help you here. One important difference between gymnastics and weight training however, is the practice of being inverted. It's important in MMA not to become disoriented while inverted (e.g. you get thrown).

Hi, Triangle, this is something that I've been repeatedly confused about in reading on this forum. People seem to act as if you have to start when you're 4-8 years old to amount to much in your gymnastic's training. Is this true or just a rumor? I'm a little over 16 years old and I've been a martial artist since I was 12, please tell me, am I too old to become adept at gymnastics?

Thanks

Hi Patrick. There is a difference between general and specific coordination. Here is an article which discusses this and how general coordination improvement pretty much ends in the early teen years.

http://developingathletics.com/articles ... pment.html

Interestingly, here is another article by the same author in which he recommends martial arts and gymnastics as sports that all kids should play.

http://developingathletics.com/articles ... ports.html

Sorry, to answer your specific question, what do you mean "adept" at gymnastics? You won't be going to the Olympics if that's what you mean. But you can get very good.

In the olden days of gymnastics, it generally wasn't done seriously till manhood. I'm talking about 50 years ago or so and before.

If you want to become an elite gymnast, you need to be in a gym as a male probably at the latest by 10yo and for females, 5yo. Acrobats may be able to start later but it depends on what level of acrobatics.

If you merely wish to become an adept at gymnastics, you can start anytime.

Mark Dacascos was a former gymnast. I saw him demo it on some show one time. It might have been SYTYCD or something else. I was surprised somewhat.

Jackie Chan trained in the Chinese Opera and practiced acrobatics. Acrobatics is a subset of gymnastics.

Jet Li trained in wushu which involves a certain amount of acrobatics.

trianglechoke7 said:

Sorry, to answer your specific question, what do you mean "adept" at gymnastics? You won't be going to the Olympics if that's what you mean. But you can get very good.

By adept I mean the ability to perform handstands, walk on my hands, backward and forward hand springs, and front and back flips with proficiency.

trianglechoke7 said:

Patrick Smith said:

Lekman said:

Hi everyone, greetings from Serbia

Maybe the best example for implementing gymnastic training in martial arts is Mark (Marek) Drozdzowski (Poland). This man was a Europian kyokushin karate champion, and also he has gymnastics background. Just look at this incredible strenght, flexibility and kicking techniques. Enjoy !

His kicking techniques are just amazing... :shock:

trianglechoke7 said:

Unfortunately, you are (I assume) too old to improve your general coordination. Also, balance is specific to your sport. Sport specific drills are the only things that will help you here. One important difference between gymnastics and weight training however, is the practice of being inverted. It's important in MMA not to become disoriented while inverted (e.g. you get thrown).

Hi, Triangle, this is something that I've been repeatedly confused about in reading on this forum. People seem to act as if you have to start when you're 4-8 years old to amount to much in your gymnastic's training. Is this true or just a rumor? I'm a little over 16 years old and I've been a martial artist since I was 12, please tell me, am I too old to become adept at gymnastics?

Thanks

Hi Patrick. There is a difference between general and specific coordination. Here is an article which discusses this and how general coordination improvement pretty much ends in the early teen years.

http://developingathletics.com/articles ... pment.html

Interestingly, here is another article by the same author in which he recommends martial arts and gymnastics as sports that all kids should play.

http://developingathletics.com/articles ... ports.html

Wow, thank you very much, Triangle. Great read!

The author states that the most crucial years of coordination development are from 10-13 and he also recommends martial arts. I guess I'm not too bad off since I started martial arts when I was 12 and even before that I was doing handstands and jump-rolls and basic tumbling stuff. I'm very encouraged!

Blairbob said:

In the olden days of gymnastics, it generally wasn't done seriously till manhood. I'm talking about 50 years ago or so and before.

If you want to become an elite gymnast, you need to be in a gym as a male probably at the latest by 10yo and for females, 5yo. Acrobats may be able to start later but it depends on what level of acrobatics.

If you merely wish to become an adept at gymnastics, you can start anytime.

Mark Dacascos was a former gymnast. I saw him demo it on some show one time. It might have been SYTYCD or something else. I was surprised somewhat.

Jackie Chan trained in the Chinese Opera and practiced acrobatics. Acrobatics is a subset of gymnastics.

Jet Li trained in wushu which involves a certain amount of acrobatics.

Cool!

Thanks, Blairbob!

Sorry trianglechoke but I completely disagree. Although starting young would definitely give you a head start there are no valid trials that suggest that kinesthetic perception can only be attained in the adolescent years. The writer of those articles trains only adolescents and therefore has no basis for comparison does he?

It’s just a matter of getting enough practice in with all the movements. Granted, a person who started younger will always be a few years ahead in experience ahead of someone who started later. But that’s not to say that they can't still achieve great levels of coordination and you really shouldn't discourage starting athletes. The only limits are the limits of your own determination.

Blairbob said:

In the olden days of gymnastics, it generally wasn't done seriously till manhood. I'm talking about 50 years ago or so and before.

If you want to become an elite gymnast, you need to be in a gym as a male probably at the latest by 10yo and for females, 5yo. Acrobats may be able to start later but it depends on what level of acrobatics.

If you merely wish to become an adept at gymnastics, you can start anytime.

Mark Dacascos was a former gymnast. I saw him demo it on some show one time. It might have been SYTYCD or something else. I was surprised somewhat.

Jackie Chan trained in the Chinese Opera and practiced acrobatics. Acrobatics is a subset of gymnastics.

Jet Li trained in wushu which involves a certain amount of acrobatics.

10 years of age is to late to start if you wan't world class gymnast...

Max 8 years, maybe 9 if he has unbelivible natural abilities.

Sorry trianglechoke but I completely disagree. Although starting young would definitely give you a head start there are no valid trials that suggest that kinesthetic perception can only be attained in the adolescent years. The writer of those articles trains only adolescents and therefore has no basis for comparison does he?

It’s just a matter of getting enough practice in with all the movements. Granted, a person who started younger will always be a few years ahead in experience ahead of someone who started later. But that’s not to say that they can't still achieve great levels of coordination and you really shouldn't discourage starting athletes. The only limits are the limits of your own determination.

Actualy, it is not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing, this is common scientific undestanding nowdays. The development of coordination is completed to 90% of its full capacity by the age of 12.

Now, that does not mean you cannot learn new stuff, but the mechanism is different:

instead of improving general coordination traits by your practice and though becomming better coordinated in similar skills to the one you are learning - (which is what happens with kids) you can still improve a certain skill, but mainly due to an improved neural pattern for that skill only. A general coordination development will be limited if at all.

Sometimes it seems as if a person is improving in general terms, but usualy it is just a factor of better understanding of some movement principles, experience and maturity in his aproach to learning.

Ido.

I think for some specialists, 10 is still a possibility. It's virtually impossible nowadays with the difficult in artistic but it may be possible for the other disciplines of trampoline, rhythmic, and sports acro. It also depends on when they would enter competition (post college) for men.

Not a chance really for the gals unless it was one of the other disciplines, maybe.