strength levels

coach sommer I'm wondering what you classify as basic strength? is there a basic definition you have to classify an exercise as basic strength? what levels are full planche and front lever? and is there any specific exercises that once accomplished you/we can start training for more advanced strength elements (crosses, maltese's, etc.) or is it a matter of being at advanced levels of everything (dips, pulls, levers, presses, etc)?

cheers coach,

Ed

Super basic strength in my opinions as for rings is:

skin the cats

basic straight arm support-30s

hang L-15s

tuck front lever-15s

L sit-15s

invert hang - this is the first one

planche and front lever could be considered intermediate strength as far as rings go. back lever and handstand could be considered advanced beginner.

prerequisites for getting strong:

rope climbing without legs

15 PU

25 dips

15 legs lifts to a bar

50 pushups

50 hollow rocks

Once you can support, you can start working presses and handstands on rings. Once you can do levers, you can seriously work crosses. Ring dips, muscle ups, and backward roll ( pullover ) are necessary.

Blairbob said:

Super basic strength in my opinions as for rings is:

skin the cats

basic straight arm support-30s

hang L-15s

tuck front lever-15s

L sit-15s

invert hang - this is the first one

planche and front lever could be considered intermediate strength as far as rings go. back lever and handstand could be considered advanced beginner.

So you're saying a planche on the rings classifies an intermediate strength?

I'm very near a front lever with no prior gymnastics training. A planche on the rings would be crazy strong though.

Blairbob said:

prerequisites for getting strong:

rope climbing without legs

15 PU

25 dips

15 legs lifts to a bar

50 pushups

50 hollow rocks

Once you can support, you can start working presses and handstands on rings. Once you can do levers, you can seriously work crosses. Ring dips, muscle ups, and backward roll ( pullover ) are necessary.

I don't understand your connection between support and presses and handstands on rings. I can easily maintain the support position but jumping to presses and handstands on rings seem likes quite a jump

Also, I don't see how levers are a prerequisite to start working crosses.

Forgive me if my questions seem remedial, but I'm new to training like this but would appreciate the explanation. Thanks

Hmm, I definitely understated planche there, especially on Rings. I was referring to planche on floor which is just a " B " level move on floor, I thought. Front lever is still an " A " level move and . Actually cross on rings is another " B " level move.

Still planche is not as insane as inverted cross, maltese or victorian.

A front lever is very challenging to most fitness enthusiasts. Many taller gymnasts don't ever have a good front lever ( I recently watched an optional gymnast perform a good cross but poor front lever and he looked on the tall side around teenager age ).

I merely stated that once your support on rings is decent, you can begin training on a ring handstand by kicking into it on low rings or pressing into a shoulderstand and climbing up ( or bent arm press to HS which is tougher ).

Back lever is a prerequisite to training a cross. It's hard to describe but there is a pain on the elbows that has to be mitigated since cross training has a lot more pressure on the elbows. It also teaches body tightness. Bare in mind, back lever shouldn't be horribly tough as levers go.

Interesting...I think I will get the front lever before the back lever.

Actually, I've never tried the back lever, but imagine it will be tough like you said due to the biceps strain.

I might try one tomorrow and see how far I get.

Back lever is more about tricep and lat strain. There isn't enough tension in the biceps to really be felt. I'm sure it could happen. It's hard on the elbows at first or if my shoulders aren't feeling loose.

There can be pressure on the elbows in the front lever or shoulders as well. Back lever is also more difficult to " feel " where you are sometimes. Sometimes, a gymnast thinks he has it and isn't quite there yet or close or with poor form.

I need to be slapped to think planche was intermediate especially ball or tuck planche which are more advanced beginner to low intermediate. Maybe straddle planche is somewhat intermediate.

Blairbob said:

Back lever is more about tricep and lat strain. There isn't enough tension in the biceps to really be felt. I'm sure it could happen. It's hard on the elbows at first or if my shoulders aren't feeling loose.

There can be pressure on the elbows in the front lever or shoulders as well. Back lever is also more difficult to " feel " where you are sometimes. Sometimes, a gymnast thinks he has it and isn't quite there yet or close or with poor form.

I need to be slapped to think planche was intermediate especially ball or tuck planche which are more advanced beginner to low intermediate. Maybe straddle planche is somewhat intermediate.

Are you sure about that tri/lat strain bit for back levers? It seems that those are things associated with the front lever--if you look at moves similar to the levers, you can see what I mean. Victorians are like front levers in a way, and those stress the triceps, rear delts, and lats like no other. Back levers are like malteses in positioning, yet malteses stress the shoulders and biceps primarily. Using this logic, and personal experience, I feel like if anything, the back lever puts MORE stress on the biceps, rather than none, as you claim, than the triceps or lats. The nature of the way you are pushing against gravity lends itself to bicep strength--pushing your straight arm forward from your torso involves the front of the arm, while pushing backward involves the back of your arm.

back lever: lats, biceps, anterior delts (some to little), back

front lever: chest, lats, posterior delts, abs + some scap stabilization

cross: chest, lats, some biceps. core

planche: anterior delts, chest, lats, some biceps, core

maltese: anterior delts, chest, lats, biceps, core

inverted cross: anterior delts, chest, lats, biceps, trapezius, core

victorian: everything on your posterior... triceps, back, etc.

Some of the "major" contributers.

Anytime you engage the triceps it is impossible not to work the biceps. I guess I need someone to poke and prod me next time I do back lever and I'll need to do that to someone when they attempt it. Though maltese and back lever are similar in position, one is pushing while the other is more in the hang ( yet I consider the back lever does work push strength in a way ).

I'll go play with levers tonight in a bit and finalize.

Ok, ok...I give plenty of bicep engagement in a back lever. I managed to touch my bi's after I put my feet on the floor lowering down from it. Interesting.

I also find the chest heavy worked after back lever, specially if you try to open chest during the lever (it seems something as if you try to mantain your sternum in the place ). And if i put the palms of the hands looking to the floor, i have a great tension on elbows and low portion of the biceps.

But i think the experiece is different from one to another because thouse are a complex and compound movements that involves a lot of muscles at one time, and dependig on our strength and weakeness we feel more on one muscle or other.