(YADST) Yet Another Deck Squat Topic

Like many newbies I am lacking some flexibility and mobility => gumby challenged.  Biggest challenges are deck squats and swivel hips.  Both are responding to strategies discussed on the forum, the stretch series, and dedicated attention.

For the deck squat, elevation, tuck and pike work, and Achilles stretching have led to consistent progress over the past two months.  I have gone from a 4.5 in. elevation down 0.75 in.  I can get consistent rep's with low momentum, heels together, and I am bringing the knees in over time.  Not sure if my anthropometry will permit knees completely together, but I am shooting for arm pit width or narrower per the course video. Progress has slowed, but the vector is still in the positive direction.

I believe the limitations at this point are predominantly mobility rather than form (I know: post a form check). To date, I have followed the commendably conservative policy of not training bad form and have stayed at Step 1 (3x3r). I have heard differing advice on the forum for this particular PE for how to progress. One response is to follow the more conservative path I have been on; the other is to progress through the steps at the increased elevation, then roll it back to the appropriate step when I can do rep's from the deck. The latter has the advantage of building work capacity. Is there a consensus on the best choice?

Thanks in advance,

Mark

Rather than adding reps, if i am tryingto get the hang of a movement I prefer to add more sets. This has the advantage of avoiding form deterioration and gets more mobility in between too, you lucky devil I have gone up to 10 x3 or 10x2 when a movement is awkward but those few reps are consistent, and go until I feel the last rep or two starting to get subpar.

I'm into volume but quality comes first, and this is one method to balance the two.

Have you reviewed the new common issues/technical videos in F1 for deck squats?

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

23 hours ago, Mark Anderson said:

I believe the limitations at this point are predominantly mobility rather than form (I know: post a form check). To date, I have followed the commendably conservative policy of not training bad form and have stayed at Step 1 (3x3r). I have heard differing advice on the forum for this particular PE for how to progress. One response is to follow the more conservative path I have been on; the other is to progress through the steps at the increased elevation, then roll it back to the appropriate step when I can do rep's from the deck. The latter has the advantage of building work capacity. Is there a consensus on the best choice?

Thanks in advance,

Mark

At the F1 level, I wouldn't worry too much about work capacity. I know WC is important and I look forward to being an ace when it comes to that, but as Coach keeps saying over and over, we've got to learn how to crawl before we learn how to walk, and then walk, before learning how to run.

I'd try to focus first on fixing the technical aspects of the PE, as you seem to be doing, and worry about building work capacity later. (Although more than a few people have insisted that building work capacity should be a goal right off the bat in F1.)

Thanks for the responses.

Jon: great idea. Should have thought of that option. I will implement until I can get to the deck.

Coach: yes, I have. Will review again forthwith to see if I missed something, which is entirely possible.

John: my knees are getting sore from all the crawling...but, I know you are correct. That attitude is one of the reasons I'm here.

Hi Mark

I've got YADSQ (yet another deck squat question): do you know of any foot/knee/hip mobility exercises specifically for this squat?

Today is my first day of F1 and I don't have the flexibility to correctly do the deck squat. My plan is to follow the technical videos but I am also interested in doing some additional mobility work.

Thanks

Ameya

I found that when I started the Front Split Stretch series my deck squat improved dramatically.

Ameya:

Welcome to the ranks of the flexibility/mobility challenged with respect to the deck squat. If you type "deck squat" into the forum search function you will get about 19 pages of topics. Thus, we are in good company.

Mark Collins' answer re the front split stretch series is dead on. There is a lot of Achilles and pike stretch work in there. Other things that are working for me include:

1. Working the deck squat from an elevated surface. I use some small deadlift mats. Anything that is not too soft will work. Find a height at which you can do the reps and work down from there over time.

2. The tuck work in things like MN/PE1. This helps get the compression you need to get and hold to balance and stand up.

3. Sitting in a deep squat. This will require ankle and knee flexibility. I have to hold onto something if I do this with my feet and knees together. I can now stay in a deep squat without support if I have about 12 inches or so space between my feet and keep my knees spread.

4. Pay attention to the skier mobility element for the deck squats. Those will also work ankle mobility if done properly. The only way to achieve depth without folding over completely at the waist is to achieve that mobility.

5. If, like me, you are sporting any extraneous belly fat, losing that will help. You can compensate for this by spreading your knees. I'm gradually getting rid of mine through diet.

Note, however, that I have yet to achieve mastery on this element, though I am improving toward mastery weekly. Please use the search function and see what those that have traveled this road before us have to say. Patience and diligence are prerequisites for GST I am learning.

Stay the course and trust the process. These are things I tell myself before, during, and after every practice.

Mark

Hello all,

I have a follow on question - it seems many have difficulty with the deck squat from a lack of knee, ankle and achilles mobility. However my mobility in those areas is quite good, actually very good but lacking strength. I have very pronated feet which collapses the arch of my foot inwards. So I'm finding as I roll up my knees splay outwards as I try to push up and need to balance with my hands.

So would the recommendation be to follow the protocol in the technical video and use the mat stack? Or is there some other approach I should try?

I also suffer from some excess belly fat and I'm sure Mark is right, it will be much easier to do the exercise once that's gone. 

I would do them without the mat and yes the belly fat will get in the way.

Hi Mark, nice post from June 19, I too suck at this exercise and swivel hips. I came across this for swivel hips in the forum: 

Thanks in advance, 

Ken

On July 13, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Ken Rogan said:

Hi Mark, nice post from June 19, I too suck at this exercise and swivel hips. I came across this for swivel hips in the forum: 

..I'm wondering if you can point to a similar post for the deck squat? Essentially I'm after a list of extra mobility exercises I can do to loosen up the calf and achilles (and help with ankle mobility. 

Thanks in advance, 

Ken

Ken:

Sorry it took me so long to respond.  I was on travel all last week, something I do about once a month.  Side note: I have figured out how to haul rings, a pair of stretch blocks, bungee cords, and a stretch strap along so I don't miss workouts.  Excessive?  Maybe.  Personal choice...most definitely.

I remember reading Dylan's post re swivel hips and thinking someone should do this for deck squat.  I don't remember such a thing off the top of my head, although I never finished going through all 19 pages when I searched for it.  What I can say is that the two things that provided the biggest bang for the buck for me have been 1) the front stretch series, and 2) sitting in a deep squat even it you have to holdout something.  I know that doesn't directly answer your question, but it is the best I can do without either more extensive research or creating such a page myself...which I don't feel qualified to do until I have achieved mastery.

My current status is that I'm consistent from about 1/2 inch elevation and have begun to achieve a few good reps from the deck.  So, I'm almost there.  I'm just start my 3rd month of F1 and began with pretty poor mobility/flexibility in my lower legs.  Bottom line: frustration decreasing, motivation increasing.

Mark

PS: Thanks for reminding about Dylan's post.  Swivel hips is still a nemesis.  My hips are loosening up (middle split series), but I am still getting about an inch of daylight under my glute on the IR side.  Doesn't help that I suffer from what Donnie Thompson calls "noassatall" syndrome.

On June 16, 2016 at 9:51 PM, Coach Sommer said:

Have you reviewed the new common issues/technical videos in F1 for deck squats?

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Is coach referring to the 2nd video on the sls-pe1 page, or is there another place I should look for this?

I believe Coach is referring to the new video on the SLS PE1 page and the Foundation introduction videos.

Cheers Mark, I have been improving nicely by just doing SLS/PE1 as per the various steps, I'm maybe three inches off the ground now, but getting up without momentum. The 'just do it twice a week' approach sure isn't going to work with swivel hips...

I've been doing at least one set of swivel hips as part of my daily warmup/limber session. I have also been doing some internal rotations while sitting at random times. I figure I have cut my glute rise in about half over the last month or two. It will take a while, but I now believe I'll get there.

BTW, got some good reps from the deck on the deck squat last week with heels together. Now I need to reduce the knee spread.  This also appears to be related to Achilles flexibility. Question for those more experienced than I: would it be better to continue working from the deck, or would it be better to go back to elevation and concentrate on keeping the knees together?

Mark

I recommend doing them from the deck and striving towards keeping your knees together. Sounds like you are making good progress! 2 months isn't a long time in the GST world so you're doing awesome. If you have the time/energy, add in some practice sets on an elevated surface as warmup and cooldown. This should accelerate the progress of bringing those knees together. 

Everett:

Thanks. That's exactly what I hoped you would say, although I was willing to go back up if the was the better strategy. Interestingly, I need a couple of warmup sets from 0.25" or 0.5" elevation to be comfortable from the deck.  Sounds like I was on the right track.

A follow up question: I am currently planning to keep marking the reps low (1,1,1 on Step 1) to stay there while I work on mobility ad technique. Is that the best strategy, or should I start progressing Steps?

Mark

Good news, Mark: you're making solid progress with deck squats, which took me about 9 months to master.  I went through nearly an identical process as you are describing. 

Better news: people like you and me usually have a titanic struggle with PE 2 IM (twisting squats), so we are provided with an incredible opportunity to overcome adversity! (I think twisting squats took me 11 months).

Front and middle split series had not been released when I was doing deck squats. Those 2 series were the key for me being able to get through twisting squats more quickly. Yes 11 months was "quickly" when measured against roughly 30 years of poor mobility habits. 

13 hours ago, Craig Copeland said:

Front and Middle Split series had not been released when I was doing deck squats. Those 2 series were the key for me being able to get through twisting squats more quickly. Yes 11 months was "quickly" when measured against roughly 30 years of poor mobility habits. 

Nice outlook, Craig.

Mark, since you are squatting  from the deck, start moving through the steps while focusing hard on those knees. Post an updated form check sometime soon too. Outstanding work man.

Craig: Still have a way to go for mastery, but feeling positive about it. Kind of liking spending time on the Skiers. They are making my creaky knees feel better. And you are absolutely right about the split stretch series. The are second only to consistency in making progress.

Re the twisting squats: longer than the deck squats? Thanks, pal.  But, I know your right. I tried a couple early on, and my ankles said WTH? I've always had a tendency to over-supinate (roll my ankles outward) and sprain them around that axis. I hoping twisting squats can strengthen them. That kind of thing is a big part of why I started GB's GST in the first place.

Everett: will do, Coach. And thanks for the attaboy. Too few people realize the motivating value of that little bit of positive reinforcement. I'm at the stage of my career where I'm in management (read: don't do any real work). Many in a position of authority forget this important fact. So, kudos back at you, and to Coach Sommer for assembling such a top notch team.

Thank you for the kind words, Mark. 

Form question re: deck squats. 

I can lower fine and as slow as I like. The roll is fine and causes no pain, and I can also stand back up with my feet together. But I can only stand back up by splaying my knees waaay out. This in turn causes soreness / tightness where my IT connects to my knee on both sides. I'm guessing this a muscle recruitment issue? As in, I'm using the wrong muscles to stand back up?

Should I add a mat to help with this, or lower my reps, or what? Any advice? Thanks for the awesome coaching.

If you elevate the surface you roll back on, do you have the same issue? 

On June 16, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Coach Sommer said:

Have you reviewed the new common issues/technical videos in F1 for deck squats?

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Where can I find that video?