Now You Teach Me Something

You're here! You've completed the course. Good job! What did you learn along the way? What did you lean from experience or practical application that I left out?

I constantly want to update Thrive and make it better so your input as a survivor would be awesome. Also maybe you have some information, tips or tricks that I don't yet have.

Thanks!

thoroughly enjoyed course. some marked changes to diet. Before thrive I rarely ate breakfast/anything til lunch at 1pm other than cup coffee. Now I have a large breakfast of eggs/ greek yoghurt/ salmon. Vegetables were never a problem for me as prior to thrive I invariably had a large salad for lunch[ with EVO and cheese/fish] and cooked veg. for dinner. I now take much more starch as potatoes for lunch and potatoes white/sweet for dinner and eat more meat as before I quite regularly took pulses instead. The other change has been eating more oats. This used to be only considered as a breakfast but now I have regularly as starch with lunch dinner usually as a bowl of boiled coarse oatmeal. Also been regularly making oatcakes with a mix of medium/coarse oats and coconut fat. These are good at lunch spread with butter with salad and protein [handy if lunch at work]. I'm now not tempted to snack on crisps, bread and cheese after work. I'm not sure if this is because of self-discipline, following the course or because I don't feel I need them. I usually have some fruit instead.

I wondered though about the significant increase in dairy, eggs and the press reports of research linking to increase in prostate cancer and aggressiveness of disease as well as much higher rates of recurrence of breast cancer in woman eating even small amounts dairy.  I'd be grateful for your comments on this.

However overall very pleased with progress and intend to persevere.

thankyou

Malcom,

It doesn't have to be a significant source of dairy. You can do it 100% dairy free if you like but you would be missing out on CLA and few other key nutrients. 

I would limit dairy to the forms I recommend and there is simply no way you will eat a lot of it. Parmesan cheese is very expensive, you aren't going to eat very much of it at a time as is the same for most of the other forms of dairy I recommend. 

But, to answer your question directly. I think the main stream research would say anything that increases natural testosterone or growth hormone will cause disease. The common thought is that is that the IGF is the fuel that grows things like cancer. But, IFG is directed at and grows or replaces whatever your hormone profile tells it to. If you are a couch potato and you drink a gallon of milk a day, odds are you are at higher risk. If you workout, eat heathy and take care of yourself you have a very different response.

I learnt more about the role of starches for recovery and performance. It was quite profound for me too. The times when I don't pick the ideal starches versus the less ideal I seem to feel less sore the next day. Also my training capacity has increased tremendously. 

And I learnt about Jeff's sense of humour! 

Thrive 1 definatly helped me to get on track. I tried to change my nurtrinal habits for a long time but I failed because I didn't have a good approach. I weigh 3 kg less now and gained some muscle (from 103 to 100) but there is still a long way to go. Thanks to the Inventors :). I'm looking forward to Thrive2.

Don't worry about Thrive 2 for now. Focus on your success! ITs not often that losing 3 and gaining 3 happens so enjoy your hard work! We will get back to work soon enough. 

Biggest challenge for me as I have gone through is dialing in quantities to match my activity level. It took me a while to dial in breakfast but now I am there I am really happy with it.

I am still dialing in lunch quantities. Part of it has been a long history of not eating as much protein at lunch. I am getting there. pretty close. It also is an issue with matching to lifestyle, I eat lunch at 11.30/12 so will be hungry at 5, but we don't get dinner until closer to 8. so its adding in a small second lunch/early dinner around 4.30. what this is depends on the day. Porridge loaded with greek yoghurt is my go to when I am at work esp on strength workout days. I need those carbs (probably not getting enough at lunch). fruit is often a late afternoon add in as well.

I probably need to dial in the carbs at lunch too. I suspect it is a bit more than I have (by volume its a half cup of uncooked rice, not sure what that equates to cooked but 2-3 cupped handfuls is about right).

Dinner is hardest most times to get the animal protein, palm size is great but depending on what we cook it would likely end up being 3/4 of a palm as we tend to be heavily veg focused in the evening... But I usually get a fairly large glass of milk around 5/6 when I get home too.

One of the other aspects I've noted is a difference in the foods here to the US. although that seems to be changing too. I would never have seen sweetened greek yoghurt before the last couple of years here. dried fruit is never sweetened, just fruit. The need for organic too seems to be less of a big deal here. the majority of fresh food here in Adelaide, at least the greengrocer I go it, comes from local farms. it is traveling less than 30km, cheap and high quality. fruit is local, veg is local. even more so if we go to the local market where its a local market garden grown. organic is only in the supermakets and the quality is rubbish.

I need to do more research on the meat and dairy here. The majority of the milk is local so grass in the winter and likely grain during the summer. the beef aspect is interesting as so much of the cattle is free ranging, but feedlots are used a bit before the meat goes to market. most of their lives the cattle are free ranging grass fed before spending a couple of months in feedlots on grain.

It's been a great journey, some fairly big changes to when I eat things rather than what but there is a lot more starch going in at lunch than there was.

Good post, good analysis of your diet. A snack in-between lunch and dinner is no problem if they are that far apart. Being outside of the United States you don't have to worry about some of the food quality issues I talk about but its great that your double checking your food sources. 

I've been neglecting putting in a synopsis of the course, mainly due to life getting in the way, but I do want to contribute and at least offer some input.

The one thing I think would be useful to delve into through Thrive would be the use of salt in diet. I run into many people who think it is evil, as advocated by their MD, and try to avoid it at all costs and I beg to differ. Also, considering this is a "basic" (not basic like your latte drinking sister-in-law) nutrition course, I think addressing salt is timely and useful.

Salt is extremely misunderstood by common diet knowledge, it is generally regarded as an additive to food whose sole purpose is to make you thirsty, it is also commonly regarded as an easy way to increase blood pressure and is to be outright avoided. I will attempt to explain that it is extremely necessary, and regulated within the body, and although the contribution towards changing blood pressure has been noticed, it is minimal and should not be a consideration. The body uses salt across the entire body, the nervous system(including the brain and eyes) cannot function without ample salt, nerves simply cannot fire without it, The ability to send messages from across the length of a nerve require large amounts of salt. You cannot sweat, an essential mechanism for body thermal regulation, without salt. The kidneys are highly dependent upon the availability of salt, they cannot effectively filter the blood without salt. It is hard to find a tissue in the body that does not utilize in some capacity sodium or chloride.

Your body also has ways to regulate salt intake and excretion, if you consume too much salt your kidneys will simply lose the excess through the urine, not enough salt and it will reclaim it to be used again. It is constantly working to maintain values autonomously, without your help. Your tongue is also well trained to detect salt, too much salt and food becomes completely inedible, too salty of water and you cannot drink it. You can pretty much trust your tongue here unless you get tricked into consuming it by the saltiness being masked with tons of sweetener (i.e. cola). Your body knows what it wants regardless of your mental capacity for deeply crippling existential thought and self reflection. 

The last point to address is how it effects blood pressure, for this we'll refer to our basic education in a concept called Osmosis. The simple adage is that "water follows salt". If you coat a piece of meat in salt, the water will be pulled out of the tissue due to the high concentration outside the meat compared to inside and essentially dried. In the large intestines, water is reclaimed and fecal matter is dried and compacted, so what the body does is put higher concentrations of salt in the tissue of the intestines(not where the food is), which draws the water out of the inside of the intestines (where the food is) and dries it out. A similar process occurs when you eat a salty meal. The salt moves from the stomach into the blood stream pretty easily, where the now higher concentration draws water from the tissues (with now less salt concentration relative to the blood) into the blood stream. This effectively increases the volume of the blood by diluting it with more water. The effect this has, considering you only have so many blood vessels and they can only expand so much, is a slight increase in blood pressure. This increase is not long lasting and is only temporary while your body adjusts by excreting more salt in the urine or moving the salt to areas in the body which need it. Either way your body adjusts and manages without any deliberate action on your part. 

For the most part the KISS approach makes sense here. Your body knows best and you should not run to avoid salt from your diet. Processed foods are notoriously high in salt, but if you do your own cooking, which you should be, the salt you add to make food taste good, which will never be the amounts found in processed foods, and be sufficient for quality performance.

Jeff, being the informed monster of a man you are, I'd be welcome to hear your POV on this. I feel like my logic is sound, but in terms of maximal performance or trying to get to -3% bodyfat, I'm sure considerations change.

Performance and sub 3% body fat are two different things. Most people that get on stage at a legit 3% body fat are so depleted they would get their ass kicked by a 13 year old with a body developed by Nintendo. 

Salt is one of those topics that people get crazy about. Salt holds onto water and so does carb, so if you eat a lot of both you will be bloated. I mean if your life consist of no exercise, booze, low sleep, tons of carbs, no veg and a ton of salt. You could pick out salt as the enemy if you want. 

Your post was on. 

Speaking honestly, I can't say that I learned "a lot," but I have incorporated the rigidity of it. That is to say, I have altered my carb and fat sources and timing to fit what's outlined, and altered breakfast to leave out carbohydrates. (On the latter point, I do have a question that I'll ask in a moment.) Also, I moved my breakfast vegetables to dinner. Prior to Thrive, I'd already implemented Coach Sommer's simple guideline to avoid processed foods. And not that Thrive specifically mandates it, but I've replaced a cheat meal with a healthier alternative that I prepare. That being said, I don't yet have the body fat percentage that I am aiming for, so I want to make adjustments in accordance with Thrive.

Regarding my question: I workout first thing in the morning at 4:30a/5:00a (F1: M W F, Yoga: T R S), so should my breakfast be different? Should I consume a carbohydrate prior to and/or after the workout with this in mind? Prior to following Thrive rigidly, I was having a carb with breakfast and not in the evening. (I did do a search of the Thrive forums to see if this question had been asked and answered prior, so forgive me if I didn't find it.)

On 15/6/2016 at 0:23 AM, Brian Card said:

Speaking honestly, I can't say that I learned "a lot," but I have incorporated the rigidity of it. That is to say, I have altered my carb and fat sources and timing to fit what's outlined, and altered breakfast to leave out carbohydrates. (On the latter point, I do have a question that I'll ask in a moment.) Also, I moved my breakfast vegetables to dinner. Prior to Thrive, I'd already implemented Coach Sommer's simple guideline to avoid processed foods. And not that Thrive specifically mandates it, but I've replaced a cheat meal with a healthier alternative that I prepare. That being said, I don't yet have the body fat percentage that I am aiming for, so I want to make adjustments in accordance with Thrive.

Regarding my question: I workout first thing in the morning at 4:30a/5:00a (F1: M W F, Yoga: T R S), so should my breakfast be different? Should I consume a carbohydrate prior to and/or after the workout with this in mind? Prior to following Thrive rigidly, I was having a carb with breakfast and not in the evening. (I did do a search of the Thrive forums to see if this question had been asked and answered prior, so forgive me if I didn't find it.)

I have a similar timing with workouts. I work strength with Foundation M and F, Yoga T and Th, intense work Wed and then on the bike for a 25min ride to work. I asked a similar question and the response was 'only if you feel the need'. I don't.

I had been advised by a dietitian that I should load up the carbs around the workout and I didn't get the same results as I am getting in terms of consistency of progress and recovery as I have achieved with a protein and fat focus in the morning. First carbs are with Lunch at 11.30/12. This has provided the best results for me.

Hi Brian,

Maybe you didn't read the post title. It says "now you teach me something". What are you teaching me?

Regarding the question: I would just stick to the way it is. There are pros and cons but I feel the pluses far outweigh the negatives. Its outlined pretty well throughout the course. 

16 hours ago, Jeff Serven said:

Hi Brian,

Maybe you didn't read the post title. It says "now you teach me something". What are you teaching me?

Regarding the question: I would just stick to the way it is. There are pros and cons but I feel the pluses far outweigh the negatives. Its outlined pretty well throughout the course. 

Jeff, I appreciate your answer.

I thought that I was - also - being fairly responsive to the subject of the thread.

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 8:55 PM, Jeff Serven said:

What did you learn along the way?

What did you lean from experience or practical application that I left out?

What did I learn along the way? I learned the ideal time for eating carbs and fat. I was eating carbohydrates in the morning and with lunch, and usually not in the evening. I had some fat with each meal. Also, I learned to select starches over grains. I really liked the essays associated with each step.

What did I learn from experience or practical application that was left out? Nothing. With your answer above, my concern about whether or not workout timing should effect nutrient timing was addressed. Prior, I just wasn't sure if it was overlooked or intentionally omitted. I assumed the latter, or that it would be addressed in Level 2.

I look forward to what comes next. Thank you.

Brian, 

Thanks for the follow up. Good stuff. 

Yea, If you look at the 24 hour graphic it just isn't a plug and play system with carbs. You produce different hormones and 'stuff' in the morning vs. night so you cant just click and drag your carb meals around to fit. 

I don't want people to jump on this one because the effects are negligible but when you do not have carbs post workout your body relies on its own glycogen stores and fat. Slightly accelerating the fat burn.

Thoughts on this @Jeff Serven?

Good stuff. Fast food is fast for a reason. I mean there is nothing fast a michelin star restaurant service, because they are making everything from scratch. 

Back when I didn't have very much money (college, grad school, early career), I made everything I ate. I rarely ate out or bought pre-made foods, and I was the leanest I've ever been!

I was very short with my answer because I waned to make a large part of L2 around this but Ive let the cat out of the bag on everything else so why not here. 

I really don't like the heath food zealots who think they are better than everyone because they eat "paleo", they make all their own food and so on and so on....I usually tune out at about that point...But I have to agree here that to be heathy you have to learn how to cook. 

To the french fry point; every now and then my wife makes fresh pasta. We do it about 6-7 times a year because it is such a process. Pretty hard to get fat off pasta when you have to spend an hour and a half making noodles. He has a lot of good info, I like his stuff. 

There are a lot of ways to eat out and still be to the good. Coach and I frequently go to the Keg and its steaks, veg, potatoes. Pretty easy. *yes I know its not organic(read paragraph 2 if you were thinking that) 

In the long overdue because I have pretty much completely given it away level 2. I do want people to make their own food from real food. More important to develop a palate for real food(heathy or not) and a dislike for fake foods like HFCS ketchup. This is a huge process that is 100% internal for people. I want you to "not want a coke" I would be more happy for you to want a fresh made croissant...Well what I want is for you to eat nutritious food but you get my point. 

*if you currently want a coke thats cool. This is level 1. 1 step at a time. 

I have completed thrive, and today i am having my first very big breakfast. Bigger than usual.

It is no great difference with what i already ate, but now i'm more strict at following the principles. It is also easier to get boundaries with quantities, as in thrive it is really easy to get hold of quantities.

BTW, after about three months, i dont notice great differences as to body fat, but i have seen great differences in energy.

I am more aware at late night, when i teach capoeira (till 10.30), and i have begun doing my gb workouts reting less between excercises. better sleep and recovery.

I have stopped taking protein supplements, and still dont miss them. 

Really the only thing i have not really got is how to eat fruit throughout the day. 

Thank you.

Good work Dario. The concept of this course is to ground you in the basics. Its not the pinnacle of sports nutrition. The basics are what provide all the bang for the buck so its where the most time should be spent. You've made it through Thrive, its now okay to experiment with adding fruit. Try it and tell us what you think, others are probably in the same shoe. 

Hey so I'm not sure if this is going to teach you anything but I'll just put it out there. I lost bodyfat so fast on your program that I didn't know what to do to stop. I used to compete in rowing at 5% bf, I got as close as I've ever come to that since using thrive, I had energy all through the day no real dips it was great but I wasn't eating ENOUGH, so had to have ginormous breakfasts, and make my lunch and dinners bigger too. I'm 6"2 and was 93kg but now 87kg, I feel pretty much as strong as I was before despite actually training 1/3 the time (I did a combination of CrossFit and GST, where now I pretty much just do GST because I want a damn one arm handstand, press to handstand and for my core to support my heavy ass and CrossFit was interferring with those goals. There's only so much recovery available in my day). A lot of the time I fall into bad habits where although I meet the Thrive targets I eat 'junk' as I'm scared of returning to that body composition, even if I don't enjoy them or feel good about those choices.

I have been battling golfers elbow along side this for a year and a half. I do notice if I get 4 days in a row without 'junking out' on caffeine or sugar my elbows feel considerably better. I assume this is to do with the affect on tendons and ligaments that sugar has. 

Anyway, thanks for putting the course together, it's fantastic. I used to just eat balanced meals ie fat, protein and carbs for breakfast lunch and dinner but love the difference in mental state your program creates!

Looking forward to LEVEL 2.

AWESOME Jonathan! Thanks for sharing this 

Great work

@Jeff Serven , and @Everett CarrollI have been currently experimenting with daily IF in the form of pushing my 1st meal (Breakfast) to 12:30pm, 2nd Meal(Lunch) 3:30pm, Dinner 6:30pm. I train fasted 11:30, but also do a second workout as my lunch is only an hour. So limited in certain situations. I go to bed at 9:30 wake to meditate at 4:30-5am. Overall energy levels have been well, and progress in workouts have been seen. Clothes fitting better and the scale moving down slower than the clothing (body recomposition?) Whichever the case its been great applying the guidelines of Thrive to this schedule of eating. Any recommendations you would make? All appreciated!

Thanks!