HBP/PE2 feedback please

Where's a crying emoticon when you need one! 7 days. 60 YouTube views. Not one form review yet, except from Ryan's. https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/23578-hbppe2/?do=findComment&comment=206586

Not expecting any compliments as I know my form it's not quite there yet. Since my elbow surgery my push is even weaker than b4. I feel my scap is a bit more wobbly and I want to get pass this feeling of heaviness of pushing myself up... I'm doing push ups 3x/week with F7. Just finished my deload week and I'm starting a new cycle next Mon. Ended with 5 x 12r, but my last 3 reps on the last 2 sets are iffy. 

For the next 3 weeks, should I stay at 12r while improving my form, or cut the last reps? Should I complement my bent-arm push strength with anything else? I tried the TB sequence this Tues and I thought the Bridge Push up is going to be a good addition to get me stronger with my regular pushups. I'll be doing that on Tuesdays. I don't want to do too much, too soon either. Yet I wonder if I "should be" doing more/better. Any suggestions, much appreciated!

Moving back to block 1 until form is good would be best. This is assuming your pe1 is perfect. PE1 establishes the body line - feet together, PPT, shoulder position. While some of that might be easy to fix while keeping reps high, something stands out that shows a need to build more strength with less reps: your shoulders rise first on the way up, meaning your straight body line is no longer one whole unit. 

My suggestion is to go to block one and fix the feet first. Then the hips, then the shoulders. Don't be afraid (not the right word I know ) to go back to pe1, or at least practice it alongside. 

This coming from someone who tends to push through with less than perfect form and get stuck for way too long. As Cory said, slow down to speed progress. 

I agree. Form first, which means you stay at low reps until you can show perfect form for low reps. Only then do you work to hold your form under further stress

Whilst your reps are good there are 2-3 points as Jason said that jump out as 'mostly' correct, and crop up on most/all reps. I'd work on lower rep sets, only add volume with perfect form, and maintain your endurance if you prefer with a single higher rep set after your basic strength assignment

Understood, thank you both! I know what markers to work on and why. The how is the trick, if you cannot do 1-3 reps in absolutely perfect form. Feel like I’m in between PE’s. PE1 didn't provide enough load at 45° angle and the floor is too much load, which is why I kept my legs a bit wider. They would have to be a tad wider temporarily to clean up the instability from my shoulder girdle. I know I cannot push in perfect form from the end-range bottom with stable shoulders, and I'm sure that decreasing the rom is not an option.

So far, I kept my feet hip-distance as a means to reduce my load and gain some endurance. I felt I could maintain the line feeling for the most part, knowing that I was consistently losing it on the way up. I'm anticipating that if I bring my feet together, on the floor, the load will be too much for my current strength (and left arm) and my reps may go down to zero. Then what?

Should I work on my form at a smaller incline than 45°? That will cut the load and keep the line more consistent. Or work from the floor with as best form I can for now, until my form elements solidify, which is what I was going for initially. There’s something to be said about the gains of conscious "mostly correct from.” How to best travel the distance to "correct form" is what I want to learn from you guys. 

If the jump between 45 and 90 is that prohibitive that it requires compensations, and you cantt complete a good rep, absolutely you should work with an angle in between the two.

Long as your PE1 is nice and solid then I'd certainly prefer to see reps kept higher, say following the 9-12 week cycle at a lower incline, because I am certainly not saying drop reps for the sake of it

In your position I'd still spend a few minutes working on reps on the floor after the strength work. As it comes together go back to an incline set as warmup and work sets on floor.

I'd go to incline pushups with the bar at knee height. After that you could either keep decreasing the angle, or go to 10s negatives from the floor, using the 5x5 template. 

Edit: or following Jon's advice, do your negatives after higher volume incline

Ok got it. I'll find the threshold angle.
Jason, when you say using "10s negatives," it's certainly one option to building the positive phase (my problem). How do you guys feel about ISO holds at the bottom and first third of the positive where I am at my weakest. I personally like priming the NS to with isometric work at different positions. Is that cool in GB terms?

Certainly is. Eccentric > isometric > concentric is pretty difficult to argue with

Last week, I elevated my push-ups and stuck to a consistent rep scheme I could complete evenly across sets: 12r x 5, plus one set of 13, when my mind commanded the super powers. Proud to report, mission accomplished! – even if my push ups are not on the floor yet.

My goal was to not change too many variables at once. Instead of adding one rep each day, I focused on improving my form and the feeling of ease of my tempo. At the very beginning, these felt dreadful. Now a little less. At the end of last week, I felt a little lighter, so next week I’m going to try 13-(14?), same height. I didn’t get a chance to add isometrics or add a couple of sets in my off days, maybe next week. We’ll see how I feel. Playing it day by day.

Sorry about the lighting optical effects! This video is a fun game to watch to discern if I’m losing my body line (don't think so, or alt least not as before). Have fun playing with me! I see some improvements, enough to keep me motivated to start a new week. 

Quick update: I’ve been working on killing the ribs flair (arching) and maintaining PPT + core tightness. I hope you can see some improvements or help me with any new insights! I’m tired of looking at myself. My line has been looking like this for a month (see previous video at 12 reps, not much difference). Maybe it’s not as bad as I think. I managed to increase my reps to 5 x 15r, so that’s good.

I’m debating whether it’s time to decrease my elevation and build my reps back up with another pass. Or to stay elevated here with same reps hoping that my line will improve with time. I’m leaning towards the former since my body usually responds to overload by adapting to eventually meet the challenge.

@Ryan Bailey I’m trying to do your Mc Hammer tempo and sorry to say not even close. 

There really are no new insights to be gained at this point. It's a matter of figuring it out, applying the tension you learn in the FL and sPL work to this, while building pressing strength. 

Lack of pressing strength is the main cause of the body line breaking, it's a compensation. This is further evidenced by the shoulders rolling in during your later reps.

From my POV you have two options, go up in elevation to reduce the load and work with higher volume a bit longer, or continue here but cut your sets sooner and really focus on holding tension. After the first rep that breaks form, terminate the set.

Personally I wouldn't consider this the right time to worry at all about tempo, but that's just one opinion in a sea of opinions. I'd rather you only worry about form/tension and being able to keep the shoulders in the proper position.

I have an arthritic elbow, and have also had surgery, it takes time to recover and build strength back. There's no hurry.

So notice how when you push up the shoulders go up then the lower half, this is the classic push up compensation.  It far less pronounced than in your earlier video, so you are making progress.

The cue I give when this is happening is to think of pushing your lower ribs up, not your shoulders. It works for some people and not others. My wife thinks I'm an idiot when I tell her to do it.

If you can get that to work then carry on until you notice your shoulders start to loose depression and roll up towards the ears. That's the 2nd classic push up compensation.

If you can't get anything to work, then add more height.

HI Cole, 

Thank you for your prompt and detailed feedback. Clearly, my lack of pressing strength is 100% my limiter. That’s why I look at myself and I wish I didn’t see what I see. My mind focuses on what’s wrong (needs "fixing"), instead of acknowledging, “hey, some progress has being made. Reeelax.” I know that as I get stronger the compensations will fade. I have the body memory, just not the physical capabilities yet. A performance "dysmorphia" of sorts because who wants to live in a body that doesn't perform like it used to in the most basic elements, ughh not fun. Plus anticipating meeting Coach in 5 weeks sorta adds a sense of urgency. 

As you can see, my scapulae are a little loosey-goosey, which are another factor that increases my difficulty in keeping them depressed while in motion. In the past, I seemed to do much better in stabilizing and depressing my scaps in static holds, like Planks, L-Sits or Ring Support Holds, while BAS (dips, push ups) was always much harder. Good thing I'm paying my BAS dues now. 

For my next cycle, cutting my sets sooner and focusing on holding the tension sounds refreshing. I think I will go with that. I may even try some cluster sets: 4-4-4 with minimal rest to make sure I still have enough total volume, if you approve. It’s been rattling around in my head that I could add some ISO holds at bottom and 1/2 way to focus on the depression and tension components. Just haven’t figured out where to insert those in (ideally after HBP or on off-days).

Regarding tempo, it is only my fantasy that someday I’ll gain the sufficient strength where I can do pushups, faster (if I want to). 

7 hours ago, Eva Pelegrin said:

Clearly, my lack of pressing strength is 100% my limiter. That’s why I look at myself and I wish I didn’t see what I see. My mind focuses on what’s wrong (needs "fixing"), instead of acknowledging, “hey, some progress has being made. Reeelax.

This is awesome Eva!... you have the INTENT, we are only waiting on the science of muscle physiology. That is easy to achieve as it only takes time (at least that's what I tell myself). What some people don't have is the Intent. You have that Eva. Great job. 

Roger. Thank you Zach for keeping an eye on me! They're just push ups and that's what's pissing me off (on the surface). I’ve lost a lot of strength in less than a year. Even my ring rows are ridiculously hard now. Simply in the process of adjusting my expectations with da basics. I thought I would bounce back faster. Another reason to exercise patience and acceptance of what IS.

In training, I rather be struggling because I’m trying to figure something out or learning new skills. I thrive on struggle and fighting for something. Otherwise I get bored and lose my focus. 

As Ryan elegantly put it “waiting on the science of muscle physiology” is what’s annoying me. Thank you Ryan, sometimes our INTENT can cloud our judgment. 

Been working with lower rep ranges and really slowly. Focusing on body line and PPT. Hope you can see some form improvements

Looks like someone has been working their pressing strength and PPT, nice work Eva.

One note:  I am far from perfect on this but I notice when I get my forearms more vertical at the bottom of the movement it helps lock the shoulders down better, not allowing the shoulders to float up. This also keeps scapular tension through the downed ribs and PPT. So in your case, it would be moving the body cephalic just a hair; about an inch towards PE3. If this is too detailed, than just ignore me.

Good work!

Copy. Too detailed? I'm a sponge. A rusty one. Thank you @Ryan Bailey for your insightful note. As you can see, I had to put my MC Hammer aspirations on the back burner for the time being.