Can't do Korean Dips!!!

Hello,

I'm currently stuck on not being able to do korean dips. I simply cannot seem to get down the technique - my back / upper glutes get in the way of pressing up, and if I try to do it with my body further away from the bar, I simply cannot seem to press up.

Any tips?

I am stuck on these too although my problem is not being able to press up at all. I've been trying to work negatives but falling forward in that motion. Would working the negative work for yourself?

This is one of those elements that some people seem to either get right away or are stuck on for a long time.

Myself being in the later category, here are a some tips that I used to get there.

In general:

- At least for me, negatives don't really help with these, as at first it's not a negative, but a free fall, with potential face splat!

- If your butt gets stuck don't try to force your way over as it can easily strain your collar bone joints.

Methods of building to Korean Dips:

- Korean Hang: The best way to build strength for these is to do hangs in the bottom position.
To do this, start from the bottom, and just walk your feet back until they lift.
You can do this following a 15s or 30s template.

While doing this, be sure to maintain your single bars dips, really focusing on making as little bar contact as possible, as well as regular dips. You do't want to loose pressing strength.

- You can also scale the full exercise in a couple of ways. 
Tie a dowel across regular parallel bars, and do normal dips with the dowel right against your butt. This makes it much easier to get around the bar, but gives some sense of the technique involved.

Wrap bands around the bar and stand on them. 

- Korean Swings: Once you've mastered the Korean Hang, the next step to doing the full Korean Dip would be Korean Swings. Starting from the bottom, feet forward of the bar lift your feet and let your self swing back as far as possible to learn how the 'swing' of the dip works. If you get on top of the bar, great, if not, than just continue with Korean Swings until you do.

- Korean Butt Rolls: Even once you can get up, you may find that you have to do a bit of a butt roll to get up and have straight arms. Again that's fine, build Korean Butt Rolls according to the 5r template. Start the first rep from the bottom via a Korean Swing then doing the remaining ones from the bar as you're able to get up. So now your are starting how to come down from the bar. At this point it should feel pretty comfortable rather than like a near death experience.

In doing this if you find yourself, almost by accident, doing proper Korean Dips, whoohoo! 

Once you can do 5x5r of Korean Butt Rolls, with the occasional good rep mixed in, then it's time to really focus on the real thing, counting only good reps from the top, no butt roll whatsoever.

Hope this helps

The issue is usually a lack of either shoulder extension mobility, shoulder extension strength or both.

Simply continue training the element.  Also make sure you are working your H1 shoulder iMs.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I'd expect the Thoracic Bridge series to help too in addressing the mobility issues.

Regarding H1 shoulder iMs, especially iM2, what percentage of bodyweight should they be built up to with full ROM for them to meet the demands of Korean dips?

I think i was putting out sets of 10 k-dips with 7.5kg on im2. I don't think the comparison is a useful one for the strength side of the equation however; the various dips done shoulders to hands with good control would better build the extension strength

Before starting F I was able to do sets of shoulders-to-hands parallel and straight bar dips, yet failed miserably at Koreans (I'm glad I was cautious enough to put a mattress under the bar and that the bar was fairly low!). So I like to think that for me it was the behind-the-back extension mobility/strength I was lacking and I'm keen to build it up now. All of those exercises are important for sure.

Thanks for the tips. Would skin the cat work as well (for mobility)?

32 minutes ago, Jang Hyun Seong said:

Thanks for the tips. Would skin the cat work as well (for mobility)?

Not as well, I think. In any case we are not supposed to do such ring exercises without the requisite shoulder mobility gained from F and H. You can get injured if your elbows and shoulders are not ready for German hangs (starting position of skin-the-cats). Better to stick to the safer and more effective exercises.

Ok then, I'll stick to H1 mobility for now.

This is an interesting exercise. I have an impressive bruise from trying to shove my lower back through the bar! Will follow the advice posted on this thread.

It may not seem obvious but bending the knees during the descent phase actually makes it more difficult. 

If you bend the knees in this movement, the hips tend to extend more than necessary and the gluteals become too close to the bar. 

You must have also achieved dips through full range (shoulders close to hands) in order to perform the Korean dips.

I personally found that focusing on keeping the legs straight and the arch in the back to a minimum, helped solve the problem of the butt hitting the bar. Also, try starting with a slightly wider hand placement to allow the chest to open a little easier. Once you get the movement down work on narrowing the grip. 

See if these help 

Thanks Wesley, I will try the wider grip. I will try to keep the legs as straight as possible, but I'm a bit limited because the bars are quite low, especially when compared to gymnastics PB's. 

I'm pretty sure that I have managed the other dips with full ROM and that is mostly a technique or shoulder / upper body mobility issue (I suck at the HS iM's). 

The wider grip did the trick, thanks Wesley.

Nice, keep the wider grip for a few weeks Mark, and then once you have the technique down consistently, begin to narrow that grip. Don't rush it, but it shouldn't take too long 

I can do 5x5 reps now with a wide grip, I guess it's time to start narrowing it. 

One weird issue, I usually get a small hamstring "tweak" in either one of my hamstrings when doing these. Has anyone else experienced this?

Hamstring engagement it is completely normal since in order to open the hips the long head bicep it is involved a lot. probably the anterior part of the muscles especially hips flexor (quad portion) are too tight. 

The ability to close the grip needs some refinement of the thoracic extension (see the stretch series of thoracic bridge) so that the spine it is more arched and you will obtain some benefit on the range of motion. the stretch series covers also the shoulders extension that is necessary to improve the posterior capsule mobility extension. in this way you can reduce the grip on the bar without reducing the chest opening, that is the key t move under the bar, remember to keep the correct posture in order to maximize the T-arch . so retraction and depression are required.

There is a great threat on this elsewhere that helped me.  As a beginner I had the same problem with my glutes getting stuck on the bar.  The key for me was basically keeping my entire body as tight as possible (flexing almost every muscle in my body especially my core, glutes, hamstrings).  Once I did that, I went from not being able to do a single rep to 5x5 overnight.  

Thanks Alessandro. I have done 2 TB sessions so far and I will probably need several more before I have the ROM for the narrower grip. I thought that I sucked at MS but I am a whole new level of immobile when it comes to TB!

Make sure you squeeze your butt to keep your hips open and limit the hamstring involvement. You can also squeeze your quadriceps to make sure your knees are straight.

Well done on getting these Mark.

Thanks Wesley, I will give that squeezing a go. I have lost some full body tension after my knee op. I was surprised how much strength I lost in my leg considering it was just a  meniscectomy, although it is coming back fast now.

Incidentally, here's hoping that one day we will see a similar series of those excellent videos that you did for F1 in F2. I think that I saw Cory saying that stretch and handstand are the priority for that, which I fully understand because more people are doing that course. All in time ... I would find those kind of videos really helpful because the elements start becoming somewhat more technical and complicated in F2.

Just putting the information out there... Maintaining an anterior(forward) pelvic tilt makes the glutes stick out more.

An update on this, a few weeks ago I was doing a set of  HBP/PE6 as a warm up when I injured my shoulder. My physio diagnosed it as a rotator cuff strain and I have been doing various RC strengthening exercises in between physio treatments.

I was at the bottom of the movement and I went well past parallel. It felt like I probably went past the point where I had muscle control / strength and I was hanging off connective tissue or something like that.

I have often felt a bit of grating and discomfort tending towards pain on HBP/PE6 and PE5. I have a bad habit of flaring my elbows, which I think caused or contributed greatly to the problem (I don't think it was a once-off injury, the problem was probably building up over time). I can do the exercises no problem with elbows closer, it's just that my terrible shoulder mobility makes wider elbows feel more comfortable.

Since the injury, I have started the TB stretch series and I am doing a lot of the HS iM's. At first, I could only do a dislocate with a broomstick, grabbing it at the very ends with my hands hanging off the sides! I have moved my hands in a fair bit, although I still can't use one of my weighted bars for dislocates because I can't use such a narrow grip yet.

My plan is to ease back into HBP starting at PE4, while concentrating on form and keeping my elbows in tight. I will only go back to Korean dips once my shoulder mobility has improved significantly e.g. when I can perform a dislocate with my weighted bars. Does this plan make sense?

I know that this could be construed as asking for medical advice, but my physio said that she doesn't see the point of Korean dips and would avoid them, so that wasn't much help!

I'm not sure if dislocates are needed, but the shoulder extension work in the Thoracic Bridge course needs to be solid. And of course all the previous dipping elements should also feel solid before returning to Korean Dips. I personally also do supplemetal shoulder extension work in the iM phase of Korean Dip work.

I was wondering if bench dips with a weighted vest might help bridge the strength gap between bw bench dips and Koreans (after mastery of bw bench dips). Anyone done them? 

In terms of shoulder extension mobility requirements, what is the difference, assuming full bench dip rom?

Koreans of course require reasonable thoracic mobility as well.