kman1's intro/guidance

Aloha everyone!

#1.

I now have Coach Sommer’s book “Building the Gymnastic Body†and I am very excited. Ok, so here is my situation. I am not working now and I have all day to work out if I want. I occasionally go running 1-2 miles barefoot and practice soccer and maybe do a Tae Bo video workout, some pushups here, some pull ups there but I have never done a serious strength program. Now that I have Coach’s new book that is exactly what I want to do. That’s why I am going to start this journal here.

So, my ultimate goal is to become an ok break dancer/gymnast/acrobat. (which means I want to flip, spin, flare, roll, etc. in a flashy way hehe ) I want to emphasize ok because right now I just want to have more than enough strength to be able to do the moves that they do. Perfecting them is another story but I must have the strength first before I can start polishing the skill. So, since I have nothing but time. I want to focus on the skill that is the hardest and most difficult but also that builds THE MOST strength bar none. After reading a couple of websites and skimming through Coach sommers book, I have some candidates:

one arm pull up, planche, manna, HSPU (others?)

About me. I know pretty much nothing about exercise theory but I’m not saying that I’m totally out of shape. I am an ok runner having ran most of my life and I have started back playing soccer again. I am 5’9 178 pounds I eat pretty much anything except junk food unless I have to. I have bad knees and very very horrible rotator cuffs. Because of my rotator cuffs, my shoulders slide out of the sock VERY easily. I really want to strengthen them immensly.

So, my plan is to focus solely on one exercise until I get it. Which exercise is what I would to figure out with you all. Which one should I do? I will post my progression/results here along with what I am doing. What are your thoughts?

Mahalo! Thank you!

P.S. - Also, I want to get the splits down as well. (side, front, and back) So, is there anything that I should be doing everyday all day that can for sure get me all 3 splits?

#2.

Another program I also have that I am thinking of doing together with whatever one exercise the general consensus we decide here is is "The Complete Guide to Navy Seal Fitness". I'm not sure if I should only focus on this one exercise like I described in #1 above or can I safely do this program together with the one exercise work above also?

Howzit! I lived in Hawaii all my life until a month ago when I moved to Arizona

You should try go to Whats up gymnastics, it's close to Waipahu and the coach there is cool. He used to be a ring specialist so he could help you train moves like planche and ironcross

...I miss that gym.

#2.

Another program I also have that I am thinking of doing together with whatever one exercise the general consensus we decide here is is "The Complete Guide to Navy Seal Fitness". I'm not sure if I should only focus on this one exercise like I described in #1 above or can I safely do this program together with the one exercise work above also?

We have a very experienced user on the forum who is a Navy Seal. His name is slizzardman and I'm sure he can help you with #2.

You might search for him and send him a PM if he doesn't come across this topic.

Good luck!

You should try go to Whats up gymnastics, it's close to Waipahu and the coach there is cool. He used to be a ring specialist so he could help you train moves like planche and ironcross

yes, i know about that Whats up gymnastics. I used to go there about a year and a half ago. At the time, the cost was I think $20 a class which I found to be expensive considering that I'm super poor! Also there was so many students there that I never got a chance to have any real time with the instructor. Anyway, I still remember the older white guy and there was this asian guy there that I hope is still there. He (the asian guy) drove a Camero. Very awesome guy! He taught me how to do a backhand spring in about 2 weeks. But the reason I stopped going there is because right after he taught me how to do the backhand spring, I tried it by myself and I dislocated my left shoulder right there in the gym in front of everyone. Very very painful. Also, I don't think I need to go to a gym to pay for lessons until I get the basics down (which can be mastered alone). I'll go to a gym with instructors when I start practicing the areas where I will definitely need instructors. i.e. flips, twists, aerials, etc.

We have a very experienced user on the forum who is a Navy Seal. His name is slizzardman and I'm sure he can help you with #2. You might search for him and send him a PM if he doesn't come across this topic.

oh cool, I will have to send a PM then.

So back to original question, Which exercise (hardest) should I focus on then? I hope I get lucky and Coach posts his opinion on the matter here. *fingers crossed*

Gymnasts only specialize after they have mastered the basics. Some rudimentary basics are what I posted as a sticky in this forum section.

If you were to work only 1 exercise, especially as a beginner, it should be the handstand. For you that means, wall handstand and eventually wall runs besides handwalking and presses.

However, again, if you ever want to develop cool skills, you need to establish a base level of awareness and coordination. Handstand helps but mastery of the cartwheel is necessary as well besides basic rolling (forward,backward,sideways).

I would suggest working the frogstand but unless you can figure out how to tucked FL and BL negatives or holds, to skip them for now and work a lot of skin the cats.

Lookup either the Killroy70 routine or simply follow Steven Low's suggest of 1-2 exercises of pull and push, legs, and core. 3 sets of 5.

So, I need to work on:

handstand, wall runs, HSPU, handwalking, cartwheel, forward/backward/side rolls (egg rolls), frog stand, tuck FL, BL negatives & holds.

I think that's all, right?

So, what am I aiming for in these 12 exercises that I will do all day? Here are my thoughts. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

handstand - 60 sec. , wall runs - ? , HSPU - 10 freestanding, handwalking - 60 sec. , cartwheel - ? , forward/backward/side rolls (egg rolls) - ? (do you want me to post some videos or something?) , frog stand - 60 sec. , tuck FL - 60 sec. , BL negatives - 60 sec. & holds - 60 sec. each (for FL and BL) Is all that correct?

I understand how to do all the moves here somewhat except for the 1. egg roll and 2. skin the cat. I have listed 2 links for each exercise.

- Is this the egg roll exercise you are talking about:

http://www.5min.com/Video/How-to-do-the ... l-26999266

- Is this the skin the cat exercise you are talking about:

I hope everything is correct here. Basically it seems like you feel I should complete everything Coach has listed here: -> http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/229/ hehe

If everything is correct then I have my instructions and I will get to work. I will start a new workout log in the correct forum here and post my exercises daily to chart my progress. Thanks!!

Wow. Such enthusiasm! Well, as it's been said here already, to accomplish your goals you need overall general strength. If I were you I wouldn't worry too much about the Navy Seal workouts. They are primarily geared around building endurance, and what you need here is strength. I'm not saying they are worthless, but they should not be your focus.

To be honest, right now you should be working the basic static holds at whatever progression you are capable of. If you haven't ever strength trained before, it's going to be the first progression for most. I'd do your statics 2-3 times a week, and I'd lift weights 2 times a week. See, you're going to need to build strength in the pullup and dip department, and while the program in the book is good for a lot of things, you will benefit from building your strength with weights as well as the gymnastics. Right now you're not going to be able to do front lever rows or planche pushups in any progression. You will build up to those fastest by using the weights as a training aid to the gymnastics. I'd have 3 training days per week, say M, W, and F. M and F should be your weight days, and all three should have static holds. Since you have time, your static holds should be done as a completely separate workout. Since you are a beginner, I'd start out with 20-30 seconds of total work per hold. Each week add 5 seconds. This way you give your body time to adapt to the increases in volume without unnecessary soreness. You can save time by pairing opposing positions, like planche and front lever. Do your front lever hold, drop down, do your planche hold, rest. Keep doing that until you reach 20-30 total seconds for each. Then you could do back lever and L sit together. Back lever, hop down, do L-sit, rest. If you're really feeling saucy you could also do straddle L and Manna together. Outside of those holds, you absolutely MUST work wall handstands.

Wall handstands: You start on your hands and knees, feet touching the wall. You lift one leg up while keeping your arms straight

and then the other. You are now at like a 45 degree wall handstand. Once this is your position, you start waking your hands towards the wall as you walk your feet UP the wall. Get as close to the wall as possible. Goal is 4 inches from the wall or less. It's ok if all you can handle is like a foot or more away from the wall at first. Get as close as possible. Look at the wall, not the floor. Squeeze your butt, it helps you keep a straight body. Now, because you are a smart guy you've surrounded yourself with cushions and whatnot, so that when you fail you don't come crashing down on anything hard. Max this out, just once. Let's say you get 15 seconds on your wall handstand, and your hands are a foot from the wall. Your wall handstand workout will be 2/3 of your max per set, or 10 seconds. You're going to want to do 30-40 seconds of total work at first. Add in one extra set every week or two. Before you know it you'll be doing a total of 2-3 minutes of wall handstands. Every other week, do one wall handstand to failure. This will let you know how you are progressing. Eventually you want at least 1 minute straight. Each time you max, take 2/3 of that time as your new set time, and try to keep the same total time. So on your 3rd week you test again, and you get 22 seconds. Now you're going to be doing sets of 14-15 seconds, so with 40-50 seconds of work that's going to be 3 sets at first, instead of 4 or 5. Then the next week add in one more set. Now you're doing 60 seconds! See how that works? Steady, slow steps. When you're maxing around 40 seconds start experimenting with the Headstand Pushups(HeSPU) on the wall. That's when you get into a wall handstand and then lower down to your head, then push back up! You may only be able to go halfway down at first. That's OK. Let's say you can do 3 reps on the wall. You will start doing sets of 2. Pretty soon, in a few weeks, you'll be able to do sets of 3 or 4. WHen you get to 4-5, instead of increasing numbers, you're going to increase the Range of Motion(ROM). So instead of going halfway down, you'll go 2/3 or 3/4 of the way down. Something like that. Then you'll go back to only doing sets of 2, and then 3, and then 4, and then you'll be able to do full range HeSPU! It's going to feel great when you can do that. I can't tell you this enough, and neither can Coach, he says it every time. I've seriously seen this on at least 20 threads, as well as in the book. Your handstand is the most important thing for you to work on as a beginner! Everything else is still important, but the handstand should take priority. If I were you, I'd do my handstands as a part of my weight workout. Your shoulders will be tired from your statics if you do them afterwards and your statics will suffer if you do them first as part of the same workout.

Workouts should be 4 hours apart at least. The reason for this is that it takes the human body around 4 hours to adapt to the previous workout and make all the major repairs. After that our bodies maintain and solidify those repairs as well as they can, which depends on good nutrition, and our bodies replenish energy stores and the nervous system. That depends on both good nutrition and lots of sleep.

Weights: You're not a bodybuilder, so don't work out like one. Number one rule for you: work your rotator cuff muscles. You're going to do them at the end of the workout, but don't you dare skip them. Your shoulders are in bad shape, and it's because you've never worked the rotators. This is not going to be a phase for you, just as it isn't a phase for me or any other serious athlete. Rotator work is just a part of life for the true athlete. You will benefit from Incline bench, flat bench, shoulder press, bent over row, pullups ab work, squats, and deadlifts. There are also some bodyweight moves that you should use, namely the deck squats, single leg squats, the shrimp(Thanks Ido!) Glute-Ham Raises(GHR), Natural Leg Curls, wall handstands(of course) and cast wall walks when you are ready.

I know, that sounds like a tone of work. Here's how to program this for success:

Weights Monday:

2 sets 10 reps of Incline bench, 1 set 10 reps of flat bench, barbell.

2 sets 10 reps bent over row, barbell. Pull-up work.

2 sets 10 reps squat, 2 sets 10 reps deadlift. ALWAYS do squat before deadlift.

1 set 10 reps shoulder press, dumbbells. 1 set Arnold Presses, dumbbell.

Wall Handstand work.

1 set 5 reps per arm Turkish Get-Up. THese are great for shoulder stability.

ab work

Rotator work. There is a whole thread about rotator cuff work, in which I linked some stuff up, so either find that or search for rotator cuff work on google.

Weights Friday:

2 sets 5-8 reps flat bench, 1 set 5-8 reps incline bench, dumbbell.

2 sets 7-10 reps chest-supported row, dumbbell. This is the same as bent over row, but instead of standing, you're leaning chest down on the incline bench when you do the row. This eliminates body movement, and forces the back muscles around the shoulderblades to work harder. You WILL be using lighter weight, the lack of body movement decreases the weight you can move.

Pullup work.

1 set The Shrimp per leg, one set SLS per leg. You may be doing graduated SLS, it doesn't matter. Whatever progression you can do. 5 total reps per set on each. If you do 3 and have to take a few breaths before rep 4 and 5 that's ok. It's called Rest-Pause, and it works great.

1 set GHR, 1 set Natural Leg Curl. You will be using arm self-assist with NLC, that's ok.

1 set 10 reps squat, 1 set 10 reps deadlift.

Wall Handstand work

1 set arnold press, dumbbell. 1 set shoulder press, dumbbell.

1 set 5 reps each arm Turkish Get Up.

Make SURE you do your static workout BEFORE you do your weight workout. If you end your static workout at 2 pm, don't start weight work before 6:30 pm. It IS ok to do your pullup work after your statics if you like. On Wednesday that is what you will do. Wall handstands are M, W, F. On W do them separate from the statics. For the first week only do 1 set of everything, with 80% of what you can really do. Example: You know you can do 10 reps with 25 lb dumbbells on shoulder press. First week: You will do 10 reps with 20 lb dumbbells. Why? Your body isn't good at processing waste products yet. You're going to be sore no matter what. If you work at full capacity, you will be excruciatingly sore, with no real gain for the extra pain, and only an idiot goes through unnecessary pain. It hurts motivation and can mess up your next workout. Second week: Monday, 1 set with true weight. if you can do the 25's, do 'em! Friday: Your choice, 1 set or 2. Week 3: do as written above. Your goals: Don't go up in weight often, instead each week try to move a little faster. If it takes you 15 seconds to do your shoulder presses, try to do your set in 12-13 seconds the next week.

Rules for speed: You may touch a bar or dumbbell to your shirt. It may NOT touch your body. If you bounce off of your chest or shoulders you stop and start over. You will not bounce. It does not build strength. Eventually you'll want to do 2 sets of the Turkish Get Up, and 2-3 sets of GHR, Shrimp, SLS, and NLC. Build up to that over a few months. Every 3-4 weeks add in another set. Don't start counting until week 3. SO at week 6 you could start doing 2 sets. When you are doing your sets consistently in under 10 seconds with good form (15 for squats and deadlifts) it's ok to increase the weight. Increase speed slowly, and do not start increasing speed until you have used good form for 3 weeks. This ensures you will not hurt yourself.

After a few months you can start doing light endurance work on Wednesday if you wish. For example, 2 sets of 30-40 pushups. Don't go to failure, and don't wear yourself out. The idea is to work a different energy system, not to screw up your Friday. Strength is your main goal, not a billion pushups.

USe Google to look up the exercises you are unfamiliar with. Google and Youtube are your friends, they will show you proper form! Educate yourself on proper squat and deadlift form. At first, just use the bar until you are comfortable with the form. NEVER compromise your form, you WILL get hurt.

oh my, that is very detailed and way above my head. hehe. But I'll try to keep up anyways. I'm going to start with the basics that Blairbob wrote then hopefully if I'm still breathing I'll get to yours. thanks! I am excited to get started and see some results.

Wow. Such enthusiasm! Well, as it's been said here already, to accomplish your goals you need overall general strength. If I were you I wouldn't worry too much about the Navy Seal workouts. They are primarily geared around building endurance, and what you need here is strength. I'm not saying they are worthless, but they should not be your focus.

To be honest, right now you should be working the basic static holds at whatever progression you are capable of. If you haven't ever strength trained before, it's going to be the first progression for most. I'd do your statics 2-3 times a week, and I'd lift weights 2 times a week. See, you're going to need to build strength in the pullup and dip department, and while the program in the book is good for a lot of things, you will benefit from building your strength with weights as well as the gymnastics. Right now you're not going to be able to do front lever rows or planche pushups in any progression. You will build up to those fastest by using the weights as a training aid to the gymnastics. I'd have 3 training days per week, say M, W, and F. M and F should be your weight days, and all three should have static holds. Since you have time, your static holds should be done as a completely separate workout. Since you are a beginner, I'd start out with 20-30 seconds of total work per hold. Each week add 5 seconds. This way you give your body time to adapt to the increases in volume without unnecessary soreness. You can save time by pairing opposing positions, like planche and front lever. Do your front lever hold, drop down, do your planche hold, rest. Keep doing that until you reach 20-30 total seconds for each. Then you could do back lever and L sit together. Back lever, hop down, do L-sit, rest. If you're really feeling saucy you could also do straddle L and Manna together. Outside of those holds, you absolutely MUST work wall handstands.

Wall handstands: You start on your hands and knees, feet touching the wall. You lift one leg up while keeping your arms straight

and then the other. You are now at like a 45 degree wall handstand. Once this is your position, you start waking your hands towards the wall as you walk your feet UP the wall. Get as close to the wall as possible. Goal is 4 inches from the wall or less. It's ok if all you can handle is like a foot or more away from the wall at first. Get as close as possible. Look at the wall, not the floor. Squeeze your butt, it helps you keep a straight body. Now, because you are a smart guy you've surrounded yourself with cushions and whatnot, so that when you fail you don't come crashing down on anything hard. Max this out, just once. Let's say you get 15 seconds on your wall handstand, and your hands are a foot from the wall. Your wall handstand workout will be 2/3 of your max per set, or 10 seconds. You're going to want to do 30-40 seconds of total work at first. Add in one extra set every week or two. Before you know it you'll be doing a total of 2-3 minutes of wall handstands. Every other week, do one wall handstand to failure. This will let you know how you are progressing. Eventually you want at least 1 minute straight. Each time you max, take 2/3 of that time as your new set time, and try to keep the same total time. So on your 3rd week you test again, and you get 22 seconds. Now you're going to be doing sets of 14-15 seconds, so with 40-50 seconds of work that's going to be 3 sets at first, instead of 4 or 5. Then the next week add in one more set. Now you're doing 60 seconds! See how that works? Steady, slow steps. When you're maxing around 40 seconds start experimenting with the Headstand Pushups(HeSPU) on the wall. That's when you get into a wall handstand and then lower down to your head, then push back up! You may only be able to go halfway down at first. That's OK. Let's say you can do 3 reps on the wall. You will start doing sets of 2. Pretty soon, in a few weeks, you'll be able to do sets of 3 or 4. WHen you get to 4-5, instead of increasing numbers, you're going to increase the Range of Motion(ROM). So instead of going halfway down, you'll go 2/3 or 3/4 of the way down. Something like that. Then you'll go back to only doing sets of 2, and then 3, and then 4, and then you'll be able to do full range HeSPU! It's going to feel great when you can do that. I can't tell you this enough, and neither can Coach, he says it every time. I've seriously seen this on at least 20 threads, as well as in the book. Your handstand is the most important thing for you to work on as a beginner! Everything else is still important, but the handstand should take priority. If I were you, I'd do my handstands as a part of my weight workout. Your shoulders will be tired from your statics if you do them afterwards and your statics will suffer if you do them first as part of the same workout.

Workouts should be 4 hours apart at least. The reason for this is that it takes the human body around 4 hours to adapt to the previous workout and make all the major repairs. After that our bodies maintain and solidify those repairs as well as they can, which depends on good nutrition, and our bodies replenish energy stores and the nervous system. That depends on both good nutrition and lots of sleep.

Weights: You're not a bodybuilder, so don't work out like one. Number one rule for you: work your rotator cuff muscles. You're going to do them at the end of the workout, but don't you dare skip them. Your shoulders are in bad shape, and it's because you've never worked the rotators. This is not going to be a phase for you, just as it isn't a phase for me or any other serious athlete. Rotator work is just a part of life for the true athlete. You will benefit from Incline bench, flat bench, shoulder press, bent over row, pullups ab work, squats, and deadlifts. There are also some bodyweight moves that you should use, namely the deck squats, single leg squats, the shrimp(Thanks Ido!) Glute-Ham Raises(GHR), Natural Leg Curls, wall handstands(of course) and cast wall walks when you are ready.

I know, that sounds like a tone of work. Here's how to program this for success:

Weights Monday:

2 sets 10 reps of Incline bench, 1 set 10 reps of flat bench, barbell.

2 sets 10 reps bent over row, barbell. Pull-up work.

2 sets 10 reps squat, 2 sets 10 reps deadlift. ALWAYS do squat before deadlift.

1 set 10 reps shoulder press, dumbbells. 1 set Arnold Presses, dumbbell.

Wall Handstand work.

1 set 5 reps per arm Turkish Get-Up. THese are great for shoulder stability.

ab work

Rotator work. There is a whole thread about rotator cuff work, in which I linked some stuff up, so either find that or search for rotator cuff work on google.

Weights Friday:

2 sets 5-8 reps flat bench, 1 set 5-8 reps incline bench, dumbbell.

2 sets 7-10 reps chest-supported row, dumbbell. This is the same as bent over row, but instead of standing, you're leaning chest down on the incline bench when you do the row. This eliminates body movement, and forces the back muscles around the shoulderblades to work harder. You WILL be using lighter weight, the lack of body movement decreases the weight you can move.

Pullup work.

1 set The Shrimp per leg, one set SLS per leg. You may be doing graduated SLS, it doesn't matter. Whatever progression you can do. 5 total reps per set on each. If you do 3 and have to take a few breaths before rep 4 and 5 that's ok. It's called Rest-Pause, and it works great.

1 set GHR, 1 set Natural Leg Curl. You will be using arm self-assist with NLC, that's ok.

1 set 10 reps squat, 1 set 10 reps deadlift.

Wall Handstand work

1 set arnold press, dumbbell. 1 set shoulder press, dumbbell.

1 set 5 reps each arm Turkish Get Up.

Make SURE you do your static workout BEFORE you do your weight workout. If you end your static workout at 2 pm, don't start weight work before 6:30 pm. It IS ok to do your pullup work after your statics if you like. On Wednesday that is what you will do. Wall handstands are M, W, F. On W do them separate from the statics. For the first week only do 1 set of everything, with 80% of what you can really do. Example: You know you can do 10 reps with 25 lb dumbbells on shoulder press. First week: You will do 10 reps with 20 lb dumbbells. Why? Your body isn't good at processing waste products yet. You're going to be sore no matter what. If you work at full capacity, you will be excruciatingly sore, with no real gain for the extra pain, and only an idiot goes through unnecessary pain. It hurts motivation and can mess up your next workout. Second week: Monday, 1 set with true weight. if you can do the 25's, do 'em! Friday: Your choice, 1 set or 2. Week 3: do as written above. Your goals: Don't go up in weight often, instead each week try to move a little faster. If it takes you 15 seconds to do your shoulder presses, try to do your set in 12-13 seconds the next week.

Rules for speed: You may touch a bar or dumbbell to your shirt. It may NOT touch your body. If you bounce off of your chest or shoulders you stop and start over. You will not bounce. It does not build strength. Eventually you'll want to do 2 sets of the Turkish Get Up, and 2-3 sets of GHR, Shrimp, SLS, and NLC. Build up to that over a few months. Every 3-4 weeks add in another set. Don't start counting until week 3. SO at week 6 you could start doing 2 sets. When you are doing your sets consistently in under 10 seconds with good form (15 for squats and deadlifts) it's ok to increase the weight. Increase speed slowly, and do not start increasing speed until you have used good form for 3 weeks. This ensures you will not hurt yourself.

After a few months you can start doing light endurance work on Wednesday if you wish. For example, 2 sets of 30-40 pushups. Don't go to failure, and don't wear yourself out. The idea is to work a different energy system, not to screw up your Friday. Strength is your main goal, not a billion pushups.

AWESOME

Copied and saved on my computer!

So you like the TGU's? I hope they'll fix your shoulder real soon

PS: Go get your personal trainers license, write a book or whatever!

I used to have a license, and I used to be certified in Performance Nutrition. I haven't kept paying to re-up my certs

I'm glad some of you will benefit from what I've written here. Depending on what your focus is you might want to work up to more volume with the weights, but what I have written assumes a fair amount of gymnastics work. For specialists or competitive gymnasts, as they get stronger and better at what they do they'll be wanting to specialize their weight work to a) make up for deficiencies in their training program, which are not possible to completely avoid when specializing in an event, and b) to build additional strength in muscles key to their performance. Just like Gregor does specific weight work when he's not in a competition period, the weight work can really make a difference. A lot of his skills are very crisp and pretty, and I think that has everything to do with both his fantastic work ethic and also intelligently programming his training cycles with the weights. I actually think he's making a mistake by backing off of the weights completely when he's going on his competition cycles, but that's not a completely informed opinion. I don't know for sure, but I think that even staying with 1 tough set once a week he'd see better results.

Skin the cat. The first movement in this video is a skin the cat. It's the best one I found because I'd like to see the full extension after rolling through rather than all of the other videos that don't extend all the way and keep the hips piked.

Egg=shoulder roll.

Slizzardman posts an interesting workout regimen. I'd probably post something more along the lines of using BW with similar movements but the goal is the same of building basic strength. However, squats and deadlifts also work the entire body while SLS and lunges don't to the same degree.

I do tend to be pretty even between the weight work and body-weight work I like the strength gains from the weights, and I like using the body-weight exercises to train the body to use that new strength in athletically useful ways. To really do your best you'd really need some interval sprints as well, but not much. 10-20 minutes of that a few times a week is plenty, especially for this kind of conditioning. It's enough to improve your energy systems to a pretty high level, and it keeps your heart healthy.

There are more opportunities to improve strength at a fast rate with weights than there are with bodyweight. While angular stresses imposed by gymnastics body-weight exercises do make a difference, it's primarily at the joints. The primary limiting factor of most of the static positions is muscular strength. The exceptions are planche, and to a lesser degree back lever. Manna does have a flexibility component, but it is still primarily a feat of muscular strength and balance. There aren't excessive stresses on the joints or connective tissue anywhere near the degree they are present with planche and back lever. So, for most of the basic strength positions we need just that: Strength.

The reason that only doing statics or gymnastic-style dynamic movements limits the speed of strength development is that you can only hold the position for as long as your weakest muscle group can handle the stress, and you are limited to a position due to the same factor, which limits the force all the muscles have to exert during the exercise. With no increasing force, there is little increasing strength. Additionally, because of the large forces being handled by muscles in low-leverage positions, there is an increased risk of injury to the smaller muscles, like those of the hands, forearms, and "rotator cuff".

I'm not saying it doesn't work, we all know steady state does, but I do see unnecessary limits imposed by strictly using body weight exercises. Developing strength and advancing through the progressions takes a lot longer than it needs to for most positions. In addition, weaker muscle groups like the shoulders, forearms, and wrist/hand/finger flexors/extensors are being pushed to their limits without the benefit of additional strength work. Doing specific weight work with those, if nothing else, will help prevent injuries and advance progress. Working all the muscles with weights simply increases strength, and with increases in strength come new progressions. Practicing the progressions then becomes more a process of adapting one's developing strength to the positions being practiced, as opposed to using those positions to build the strength exclusively. You get faster development. My squats and deadlifts have been and continue to advance my development in the SLS and The Shrimp much faster than when I was trying to work those without the consistent weighted work. My ring dips and planche work have advanced very fast because of the heavy dip work and bench press work I have done and continue to do, and my front lever has been developed at lightning speed because I have the strength from heavy weighted pullups, various shrugging movements, and tough weighted ab work in addition to the body levers. I have seen similar trends with other athletes I have worked with in the past, as well as anecdotal(at times very well logged) evidence from various trainers.

As we know, I've hurt my elbows because my strength in the planche surpassed what the smaller muscles in my elbows were ready for. I have started working them with weights again, and the pain is going away quite fast. I can already do tucked planche again. I believe, and through future consistent weight work will prove, that this weight work can and will serve as effective prehab for the planche and back lever. I am already seeing results.

Bodyweight exercises are not useless or a waste of time, but it is foolish to rely on them exclusively, just as it is foolish to rely only on playing a sport or hitting the gym or any other one style of conditioning. They all have carryover, and I believe it is important to take advantage of that. It doesn't take any more time out of the day, and truly integrated work will impressively shorten the time it takes to master difficult skills.

I made a slight mistake with Coach's terminology. So, integrated training means using more than one training methodology in a workout. In Coach's case, static and dynamic exercises together in a set. For example: front lever hold, 20s rest, front lever rows/pulls(or front lever hold, 20s rest, wide L-pullups). This set has combined a static hold with a dynamic movement. You are training static contractions and dynamic movements together, and by doing so work the muscles harder than if you were to do them at separate times.

When I said 3 seconds, I was thinking of embedded work. Embedded work is also a form of integrated training. If you were at inverted hang, and had an embedded back lever, that means you start at inverted hang, start lowering down, pause for 3-5 seconds at the back lever position, and then continue down to german hang/skin the cat.

In the WOD in question, you'll see he has specified a 15s hold. That's to work pretty evenly on strength and endurance in the static position. The subsequent dynamic movement tends to work similar muscles and works more as a strength/hypertrophy element. The bottom line is that you're doing more work in less time, and by doing more work in a certain period of time the idea is to get a stronger training response, in this case a response that results in increased work capacity. How well that works for a particular individual is hard to predict until they try it, but when done with proper rest and nutrition this approach usually increases work capacity fairly quickly.

slizzardman said:

Bodyweight exercises are not useless or a waste of time, but it is foolish to rely on them exclusively

In the future, I may experiment with adding selected weight training to my athletes preparation. I am not married to a particular protocol, but am solely focused on what is the most effective method for attaining the desired result. However it should be pointed out that all of the strength and physiques of my athletes to date has been developed with bodyweight only.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer said:

slizzardman said:

Bodyweight exercises are not useless or a waste of time, but it is foolish to rely on them exclusively

In the future, I may experiment with adding selected weight training to my athletes preparation. I am not married to a particular protocol, but am solely focused on what is the most effective method for attaining the desired result. However it should be pointed out that all of the strength and physiques of my athletes to date has been developed with bodyweight only.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I know, and I think that's massively impressive. I honestly don't think it's the fastest way, but there's no way I'll pretend like it can't or doesn't work! Your guys are beasts

I honestly don't think it's the fastest way, but there's no way I'll pretend like it can't or doesn't work! Your guys are beasts

I appreciate the compliment, but I must confess that I have little interest in what methodology might be the fastest in terms of muscular development. Gymnastics strength training is not a race, nor is it bodybuilding. However if a new methodology can be demonstrated as superior, I will embrace it wholeheartedly.

I am not married blindly to a particular protocol; I am however solely focused on what is the most effective programming for the long term development of both muscular and connective tissue strength. Where most programming tends to fall short is in the development of ligament and tendon strength. Where most people's training attitudes tend to fail is in the area of consistence and patience. Developing muscular strength that is far ahead of the supporting connective tissue strength may be gratifying for the ego, but it is usually also a recipe for injury - especially when attempts are made to apply that new basic strength to more advanced gymnastics strength elements. A fact that has unfortunately been noted by some of our forum members who have attempted to approach Gymnastic Strength Training™ too aggressively.

Forum members Marion, Xia Xi, Jasonstein and killroy70 are all solid examples of the gains that can be made by calm patient training.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer said:

I honestly don't think it's the fastest way, but there's no way I'll pretend like it can't or doesn't work! Your guys are beasts

I appreciate the compliment, but I must confess that I have little interest in what methodology might be the fastest in terms of muscular development. Gymnastics strength training is not a race, nor is it bodybuilding. However if a new methodology can be demonstrated as superior, I will embrace it wholeheartedly.

I am not married blindly to a particular protocol; I am however solely focused on what is the most effective programming for the long term development of both muscular and connective tissue strength. Where most programming tends to fall short is in the development of ligament and tendon strength. Where most people's training attitudes tend to fail is in the area of consistence and patience. Developing muscular strength that is far ahead of the supporting connective tissue strength may be gratifying for the ego, but it is usually also a recipe for injury - especially when attempts are made to apply that new basic strength to more advanced gymnastics strength elements. A fact that has unfortunately been noted by some of our forum members who have attempted to approach Gymnastic Strength Training™ too aggressively.

Forum members Marion, Xia Xi, Jasonstein and killroy70 are all solid examples of the gains that can be made by calm patient training.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Agreed lol! I am case # 1 for the scenario of muscular strength being far superior to tendon strength, and through lack of knowledge and experience using that muscular strength to train positions for which my tendons and ligaments are not ready

Superiority is an interesting term. I do think that specific weight training in conjunction with your existing training methods will produce more capable athletes, which I suppose falls under superior training. However, I do think that if you could train a 12/13 year old to be able to compete on the level of a 15 year old due to accelerated strength development, that would be considered superior training. I believe that results of that type can be achieved with intelligent and highly specific weight training as a part of the gymnastics program.

I do have a slightly unusual situation since i'm very, very big for a gymnast and thus more vulnerable to connective tissue injuries. No matter what, you'll have to have patience because of the slow remodeling that occurs in connective tissue. I wasn't I am now though!!! Having said that, my injuries would have been less severe if I had been training my arms with weights as I used to. Since I've started back my healing has improved. It'll be a while before I'm fully recovered, but I can do pull-ups without pain again! My injury was a direct result of my not being patient. My training methodology is still producing excellent results for the time frame I've been working in. I think it will take careful experimentation to find out exactly what types of weight work will benefit true gymnasts the most, but I think we can see the potential in the Chinese gymnasts.