Gymnastics: The More Intelligence, The Harder It Is.

[Cole Dano]

Before this gets too heated guys, remember what forum this is. Seeing as people have been arguing the question of soul for thousands of years I think it is safe to say it won't be solved on the Gymnastics Bodies forum.

To all involved, let's respect one another's beliefs and be confident in our own. Let's not attempt to convince others how right we are and how wrong they are.

Mikael in his later argument began to make a functional distinction between mind and body which seems like a reasonable place to continue the discussion from.

I think Future's previous post points at the link between the analytical mind and body. His points certainly jive with experience. There is a sort of on going observational interaction between what we see the body doing and our intellect which is able to review and insert corrective action.

[Joshua Naterman]

Mikael, Uztech, and others who are beginning to start a discussion regarding beliefs:

This isn't the place to discuss personal beliefs on bodies, souls, or anything of that nature. Feel totally free to discuss such a topic in a separate thread, but not this one.

Furthermore, in that separate thread try to remember that you are each just one person and that there are 8 billion others in the world. What is true to you applies to you only, even when you believe that it applies to everyone. It is ok to believe such a thing in my opinion, but it is not ok to forget to state that "this is my belief" or to somehow think that you are right and others are wrong. This is a difficult way to think, but it is my belief that learning to think in this way will allow you to maintain many more friendships and have many more meaningful discussions than trying to tell people "how it is."

There may be a single "truth" out there, but there is no way for any of us to independently verify such a "truth." That means there is no "right way" or "wrong way" to believe, and when you respond as if there is you are simply arguing because on some level you think that you are "right" and others are "wrong.

That aspect of discussion will not be tolerated here, for the simple reason that it pushes people APART. This forum exists to bring people TOGETHER. I hope you understand where I am coming from on this, because I will take down topics that start pushing people apart here. That is simply not ok in my book.

[Larry Roseman]

Yes, lt's build and not burn bridges people - find the common ground.

That said, the mind-body connection, performance and performance anxiety are not entirely unrelated topics,

but let's focus on what helps.

Ultimately this is a physical endeavor and our mind needs to support our body, as slizz indicated in his seminal post.

Nerves and fear can occur; an old saying from public speaking is to have the butterflies in your stomach

fly in formation. Living and working with a little fear, a little anxiety can keep you sharp.

Soilders who were never afraid are either lying or dead.

[Zac Rhyne]

There may be a single "truth" out there, but there is no way for any of us to independently verify such a "truth." That means there is no "right way" or "wrong way" to believe, and when you respond as if there is you are simply arguing because on some level you think that you are "right" and others are "wrong.

Sliz, should your sentence read "... but [I believe] there is no way for any of us to independently verify such a "truth.""

I ask this because your first sentence quoted above began with a conditional statement and then ended with an absolute (e.g., "there is no way") statement that seems to undermine your whole post.

[learningtofly]

The moderators always do a really great 'ethic' job on this forum, thanks to them

And yes, there's surely a line going trought the right alert state (to perform) to an over-alerte state, wich is an anxious state.

I mean, from a neurological point of view, anxiety is quite hard to explain. Just like acute mental fatigue is hard to explain, biologically (you're not just running out of glucose, or any neuromodulator).

Working with ADHD, you often have very few cues to discriminate attentionnel disorders (with inhibition deficit, impulsivity etc) from anxiety (or depression), especially with children, who hardly express anxiety with words or elaborated thoughts, because they don't have them.

Just wanted to add this. I know it may seem a bit too far away from the initial topic (and sorry for my english).

[Joshua Naterman]

There may be a single "truth" out there, but there is no way for any of us to independently verify such a "truth." That means there is no "right way" or "wrong way" to believe, and when you respond as if there is you are simply arguing because on some level you think that you are "right" and others are "wrong.

Sliz, should your sentence read "... but [I believe] there is no way for any of us to independently verify such a "truth.""

I ask this because your first sentence quoted above began with a conditional statement and then ended with an absolute (e.g., "there is no way") statement that seems to undermine your whole post.

No, it should not. We are all human, and as such we have built-in filters in our brains that keep us from seeing what reality is without any human bias. It is, by nature, impossible for us to do so.

It is easily possible for us to believe that we can do so or have done so, and there is nothing wrong with that, but realistically that is not possible. We can't even actually see most aspects of our physical universe directly, we have to indirectly observe them through interactions with other matter.

As it is, all of our senses are indirect. They are cerebral interpretations of electrical impulses sent via a cascade of chemical messengers that is useful to us, but not a direct observation and not infallible. Our brains are always part of this process, as is our inherent human bias.

If we become something that is no longer human as we know it, perhaps this will change, but as we all are right now it is an absolute truth that there is no way for a human to independently verify such a truth. That would require us to be able to exist differently in time and whatever else reality is or is not composed of AND be able to relate it to everyone else directly, not through words or other second hand information.

Verification, by definition, involves more than one person and indeed must be possible for anyone to accomplish given the proper equipment, funding and expertise. That is not possible for us as far as we know.

You should also understand that my position on this matter is not negotiable. Don't make the mistake of thinking it is. I am here to help, but I am also here to maintain order and the spirit/purpose of this forum which is to bring people together. The direction this conversation began to go was not in line with the spirit/purpose of this forum, and I'm not going to make any conditional statements regarding that matter.

[learningtofly]

Come on...

No one is proving anything, it's just about the statut of "truth" to consider so we can, as imperfect humans with limited brains (I can prove this :roll: ), elaborate the best and constructive dialogues possible.

I also cannot see a better way to deal with that, obviously.

Now it seems many of us would like to talk logic, philosophy and epistemology, here : this gymnastic forum can somehow be proud of that

[Nic Branson]

Ok I was going to add something constructive to this thread, but I no longer see the point. Mo I am not a moderator but keep it civil in here.

This is the only message board I am even remotely active on these days after having stopped posting on many do to personal attacks and general non-sense. Let's not let this one degenerate.

Anyway I'm not going to rant but just say I am a bit disappointed as to how the tone got.

Moderator Note: Both myself and Slizzardman made it clear, all participants must treat each other with due respect and courteously present their viewpoints. That did not happen - thread locked.