FL/PE2 + iM

This is the progression with which I'm having the least success. The iM feels solid but with the rocks I'm only at week 6. How can I improve my form? Only half sets today due to deloading.

https://youtu.be/YK4gfNE0Ep4

Video not available on my phone

Jon, it works on mine and is unlisted, not private. Wonder if someone else can see it...

Tried again and got unavailable again. Will drop back in a while

I'll upload it again and post the link today

Added new link to original post

Anyone please?

Hi Shellberight,

First of all, thank you for your effort.

I think you are using your legs instead of your abs to impulse your body. I can see your legs moving first and your torso following. I'm not an expert and I'm struggling with this PE2 myself too, but I think your body must move as one block.

I think it's difficult to get the feeling at the beginning but with time, work and filming my trainings I'll get it done.

The form of the table looks solid to me. Maybe it's the angle of the camera, but I would try and retract the scapulas harder.

I'll be asking for help in no time with these exercices.

Good luck.

Mikel-

Hey Mikel,

Yeah thanks, I see what you mean. I'll try to move from the core first and keep the same angle. As you say, it's not easy to get the right feel for these. Good luck in your efforts.

In the table I'm retracting but it's hard to tell from a side view.

Yeah, for the Rocks you're moving you're legs first to generate momentum, when your body should be staying right. Use your core to move, your legs shouldn't move seperate from the rest of your body, stay tight, and move all at once. The table looks fine from that angle, but another one would be appreciated just to double check.

This time I focused on using my core to initiate the rocks and not pump with the legs. There 's occasional head movement I know should be addressed. Anything else to change?

https://youtu.be/jjfMa6gPJeE

Thanks Zach. Do you mean decrease the angle between lower and upper legs or keep the current angle but rock them closer to floor?

I'll deal with the head movement and add speed for the next version.

Here's a video of my current ability/inability to do this exercise. I tried to eliminate the head movement but I still have it in some reps. Reduced the leg angle too. If I can eliminate the head movement completely is the form acceptable or are other things to address?

https://youtu.be/MbW0ngeeq9w

Bump

1 hour ago, Zach Armijo said:

There is still a lack of a solid tuck hollow position present. Although you are not flicking with your feet, you are now generating the downward force with your thighs. You are relaxing your core in the back of the rock. You can see your spine uncurl and go flat, where it should remain rounded with core engaged. It will be hard for most students to get the coordination of an engaged core coupled with movement. 

 

To get a quasi feel for the feeling, hold your knees or shins and remain rigid while you rock. Much like you would if you were doing a cannon ball into a pool, but just rocking. Feel the difference of the roll on your lower back and spine. Feel how your body tension is shifting while it is staying in a fixed position. 

 

Once you have this feeling, try to lessen your grasp on your knees and use more of your core tension to maintain that "connection". This is your tension in hollow. Don't spend a ridiculous amount of time on this. It isn't a replacement for the PE, but one that should be explored to get the feeling and tension down. 

 

I hope this make sense. 

Great insight. I really feel this is a coordination challenge and will try your fix. Thanks again, Zach

Hey Petri,

I personally find these rocks very challenging to progress on, once the reps get high enough in the set. Because changes in form can be so subtle, it's easy to miss the point at which I've lost solid hollow (and I'll have counted several good reps). It has been a real exercise in discipline to pay attention to every rep and say "am I firmly holding hollow? Is my roll smooth?" I don't notice anything until one rep comes along and I realize my upper back is hitting the floor before/at the same time as my lower back; typically I also see that I've started to incorporate some momentum into my rocks with my legs. It's hard! 

Will

At the same time, deload weeks are great. Those are days that I legitimately can say "I did every rep with solid hollow and no leg-momentum." So I use those reps to say "this is what proper form feels like," and then it becomes a mental challenge to force every rep to feel the same, when my abs are on fire and focus is hard to maintain.

Thanks for the encouragement, Will. These rocks haven't really clicked for me so I don't know yet what they feel like with proper form. I'd like to get to a point where I can tell if I'm doing them well or not. Maybe Zach's tip will do the trick. I'd like to be where you are, worrying about MAINTAINING good form ☺

That's why it's vital, but difficult, to start with short, 'perfect' sets, so that it is about learning and practice before it is about maintaining it under duress good reps, like with any other exercise, look effortless, and in this case its about attaining/maintaining the shape to roll easily.

How often are you training these? Sometimes its about more frequent practice of lower reps to build that habit.

Hi Jon

I use that approach of lots of short sets with little fatigue to improve form first with all exercises. I also like to avoid such training when already fatigued from previous exercises. Getting the work capacity up comes second. I train Foundation with a F4/3 split four sessions a week. 

I did these today and I paid close attention, because of this thread. For every set, before fatigue set in, I just felt like I was rolling smoothly. As I fatigued, I felt like I was making little pulses with each roll -- each time I rolled backwards, transitioning from hips to lower back to bottom of my shoulder blades I became conscious of needing to contract harder with my lower abs to maintain hollow & feel that smoothness. Then I'd get a brief moment of relief as I changed rocking direction, have to contract harder again as I rolled back through from lower back to hips. So when I was tired I was feeling pulse-pulse, forward-backward, pulse-pulse, forward-backward. Perhaps, as you work this movement, you will feel those cues too.

And perhaps too, if you don't, this means that you declared mastery of FL/PE1 prematurely. This is something I've done a LOT. My litmus test now is to incorporate 1s of the previous element at mastery reps/hold-duration (in this case: 1 set of 60s of FL/PE1) with what I think is "perfect form," in my warm-ups and to ask myself when I'm done "ok, was that a 'warm up' level of effort?" If I find myself saying "no ... that was too hard for warm up" then I have to bite the bullet and say "premature declaration of mastery." This is not a perfect science by any means, since so many factors influence how I "feel" during any training session, so sometimes I say "meh, that might have felt hard but you're being a wimp today" and I delay rolling back ... sometimes I say "meh, it's harder than I like but I am ready to progress ... that earlier element will get easier as I focus on this one."

I dunno. Whatever you do, keep working. 

Been trying to use my core to do the work and I definitely feel it there now. Some head movement persist but I feel I might have made some progress. Not sure though, maybe I'm imagining it and am really just spinning my wheels.

bump

You're on the right track Petri, you just need to stick with this for a while until it comes together. Sometimes all the analysis in the world won't fix a problem, but a dedicated period of practicing to the best of your ability will.

I took some time off this exercise to focus on improving and building work capacity in v-ups (aka Jane Fonda BS in some circles). The mission is accomplished so I would now like to build endurance in these rocks. But should I rather try to improve my form with shorter sets? I'm not sure it's good enough for mastery. Your thoughts?