Progessing (slowly) on the cross

[Justin Rawley]

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1698&p=17762#p17762

[Blairbob]

Nice, what weight/size is the band?

[Gregor]

First of all, I'm very happy to see a woman doing an iron cross. And if you can manage to do it, you'll be defenitly the first woman I have ever seen it done. And second you will be defenitly in very minority of succeeding it (for woman of course).

BUT I see to many times of doing an iron cross and buterfly as a same movement. IT'S NOT! You can do it as an auxiliary exercise.

I would go for lower resistance band to hold just a cross, then just step down or ask somebody to help you move up. Buterfly is upgrade of normal cross and is much harder then a normal iron cross. It's like you can't do a normal cross and you are already learning azarian...

Do more maximal declines to cross and try to hold it with more rest between each try. Then do auxiliary exercise with more resistance band with 2 ROMS (1st iron cross, 2nd buterfly).

I would suggest you to try at least evry week one iron cross without any help to see your proggress and it's always a diffrent for muscles and for your feeling if doing with help or not

[Justin Rawley]

Blairbob: I don't know the actual range of tensions for the bands, but these are the ones I warm up with. As a relative measure, I use the purple one for rotator cuff warm-ups. The red one I use for gross movement warmups and usually do 12-20 reps of bent over butterfly and front chess fly from a pole with the band pretty well stretched out. The blue one is somewhere in between. In this video, I'm using the blue and the purple one. The bands are all the same length. I probably ought to invest in some graded Iron Woody bands so I'll know exactly what the resistance is and can better gage my progress, but these were far less expensive :wink:

Gregor: that's a great Idea. On some days I do train with lower resistance/assistance and do just one rep. I think I will concentrate on holding the cross with the lighter assistance and then just step off the band.

[Guest Ido Portal]

I agree with Gregor, working the static position should be the main exercise with some supplementry work thrown in. (I am not sure it should be the butterfly crosses, though)

It is all about 'most bang for your buck'.

Elbow and shoulder prehab should be highlighted also.

Ido.

[Justin Rawley]

Elbow and shoulder prehab should be highlighted also.

Prehab is a big part of what I do and sometimes takes a third to half of the workout, though now I need to find more elbow-specific exercises. My warmup workout typically is comprised of a lot of rubber band work, including many of the exercises demonstrated in your Basic Shoulder ROM and Stabilization video. While in Europe, I took two months and trained exclusively with rubber bands; the program consisted of ROM exercises x 1 set, generally followed by "cross pulls," chest flies and rows x 3-4 sets. During this time, I focused on muscle endurance by increasing to 20 reps a set and reducing interset interval times. I was wondering if you think it is worthwhile to do 20 reps on the ROM exercises or if I should stay with ten you presribe.

[Patrick Angelo Sardilli]

First of all, I'm very happy to see a woman doing an iron cross. And if you can manage to do it, you'll be defenitly the first woman I have ever seen it done. And second you will be defenitly in very minority of succeeding it (for woman of course).

BUT I see to many times of doing an iron cross and buterfly as a same movement. IT'S NOT! You can do it as an auxiliary exercise.

I would go for lower resistance band to hold just a cross, then just step down or ask somebody to help you move up. Buterfly is upgrade of normal cross and is much harder then a normal iron cross. It's like you can't do a normal cross and you are already learning azarian...

Do more maximal declines to cross and try to hold it with more rest between each try. Then do auxiliary exercise with more resistance band with 2 ROMS (1st iron cross, 2nd buterfly).

I would suggest you to try at least evry week one iron cross without any help to see your proggress and it's always a diffrent for muscles and for your feeling if doing with help or not

Why do woman have a minority in succeeding in a cross. pardon my ignorance but I want to understand for my own knowledge.

Thanks

[Razz]

Spartan have you ever seen one woman doing an iron cross? If no then there's your answer

[Tarun Suri]

I don't believe I've ever seen a woman on rings at all.

What about the olympics? Am I missing something or do only men compete on rings and pommelhorse.

[Gregor]

only men compeet at pommel horse, parralel bars, rings and on a high bar. Women has a floor and vault (same as men), uneven bars and beam.

[Newguy]

Men only compete on the: Rings, Pommel-Horse, High bar, P-bars, Floor, Vault.

And Women only compete on: Beam, Uneven-bars, Floor, Vault.

The reason Rings and Pommel (And possibly P-bars) are only mens events, is because of the extreme upper body strength they require. However depending on various coaching styles, the Rings and P-bars are sometimes used for female conditioning.

Hope that helps,

The newguy

EDIT: Oh sorry Gregor, I did not see your post :/

[Justin Rawley]

Interestingly newguy,

I've noticed that female gymnasts generally hit their peak in their teens, before they reach puberty (it is actulally delayed in these athletes) while male gymnasts are just comming onto the elite international scene in their late teens (after they reach puberty) and early twenties, often peaking in their 20's and competing on into their 30's. I always thought that P-bar and rings should be compulsory women's events. Female gymnasts usually end up with a lot of problems later in life due to stunted development and training intensely too early. Sure, a lot of the rotational speed from the young gymnasts' small size would be lost, but I suspect that the nature of female competition would change to where women would actually have to reach puberty before they could do many of the compulsory exercises. I think they would probably end up being a lot healthier in the long run.

[Patrick Angelo Sardilli]

Spartan have you ever seen one woman doing an iron cross? If no then there's your answer

I know that but my question was why.

[Patrick Angelo Sardilli]

Men only compete on the: Rings, Pommel-Horse, High bar, P-bars, Floor, Vault.

And Women only compete on: Beam, Uneven-bars, Floor, Vault.

The reason Rings and Pommel (And possibly P-bars) are only mens events, is because of the extreme upper body strength they require. However depending on various coaching styles, the Rings and P-bars are sometimes used for female conditioning.

Hope that helps,

The newguy

EDIT: Oh sorry Gregor, I did not see your post :/

ok Upper Body strenght. Thanks this is what i was looking for.

[Razz]

Sorry misunderstood.. Physiologically women are not as strong as men but you already got that answer now

[Justin Rawley]

Physiologically women are not as strong as men

Razz, that all depends on the individuals in question. A statistical overview cannot describe an n of one, only the likelyhood of picking an "average" example from the population. Strength of the general population is best described by two overlapping bell-shaped curves (for male and female constituents); while there is a disparity between the averages of the two, both curves are pretty wide. Plenty of females fall well above the "average" strength measure for men.

[Razz]

Yeah ofcourse a trained woman is stronger than a trained man, but that's about it. I don't see the need for evidence in this discussion or even the reason to discuss it. In every strength based sport men are either faster/stronger/jump higher etc etc. you get my point and no I'm not one of those 'men are gods, women are slaves' but what I'm saying here is a true observation that also explains why it is so hard for women to do an iron cross.

[Justin Rawley]

I don't see the need for evidence in this discussion or even the reason to discuss it.

Sorry Razz, I didn't mean to offend you (and nobody's debating you) but people do tend to focus too much on "limitations".

I realize you were explaining to SPARTAN why the rings aren't on the women's program, but it's high time to revamp women's events in some way. Female gymnasts are still children for the most part, with very few elite level gymnasts remaining competitive past age 21 - few make it past 18. While adults may be stronger, they rarely win Olympic medals. Maybe adding some kind of strength elements would help, I don't know.

[Razz]

Akrajen you did not offend me, at all I just see now i wrote a trained woman is stronger than a trained man.. i meant untrained man